It Takes Two: Interview with Pocket Sun and Elizabeth Galbut of SoGal Ventures
Pocket Sun and Elizabeth Galbut are the Founding Partners of SoGal Ventures, the first female-led next-gen venture capital firm. Since 2015, they’ve invested in over 80 companies founded by diverse founders across the globe revolutionizing how the next generation lives, works, and stays healthy.
Pocket Sun also launched the SoGal Foundation, one of the world’s largest communities of diverse entrepreneurs and investors with 50+ chapters worldwide. In 2016, she was selected as one of Forbes Asia’s 30 Under 30 in Venture Capital.
Elizabeth Galbut founded A-Level Capital, the first student-led venture capital firm powered by Johns Hopkins students. Previously, Elizabeth was a Strategy & Operations consultant at Deloitte Consulting focusing on large healthcare clients. In 2018, she was selected as one of Forbes 30 Under 30 in Venture Capital.
I had the pleasure of hearing from Pocket and Elizabeth about the future of female-empowerment brands, their collaboration on deals and how they stay motivated.
Why are you excited by women-driven brands and markets?
Pocket: Whether it is sexual health, sustainable fashion or baby toys for millennial parents, we want to redefine what that space looks like for women and other underrepresented demographics. One-hundred percent of our portfolio companies have been founded by women and diverse founders. We want to use our investment to build a better future that we want to live in. Every company represents our hope to change the conversation.
Last June, several female founders stepped down after they were called out of creating toxic workplaces for the women of color they employed. They led some of the most prominent female-empowerment and millennial brands like The Wing, Nasty Gal, and Man Repeller.
How has that challenged your view of female-empowerment brands created for and by women?
Pocket: This needed to come to the surface. The issue of representation and empowerment for women does not automatically get solved when you have a woman at the helm. Empowerment needs to happen for the majority of women, not just those at the top. These events help us realize that.
Last month, former employees at Glossier wrote a letter that called out the brand’s racism and mistreatment of employees. Glossier is a very promising brand adored by many women, but I am glad that these employees were able to speak their mind and hold their employer accountable. It shows the organized power of underrepresented voices. It also shows other entrepreneurs and CEOs that how they treat employees needs to be consistent with their company values. It’s a leadership lesson for all.
However, it is worrisome that the media likes to uplift women and then throw their reputations in the trash. The scrutiny of female founders has a lot of media value. It creates sensational news. Female CEOs might be penalized more for their behavior than male CEOs and suffer from bigger consequences. I hope that male CEOs are held to the same accountability as well but currently, it seems there are two standards.
The issue of representation and empowerment for women does not automatically get solved when you have a woman at the helm. Empowerment needs to happen for the majority of women, not just those at the top.
How did you meet and start SoGal?
Elizabeth: We met at a program at Stanford University in May 2015. It was right after the Ellen Pao and Kleiner Perkins case was in the news. We were in a two-week executive education program on VC. The program did a good job of making sure women were in the room. Originally, no women applied, but then they offered half scholarships to women. There were 30 people involved total, and 13 were women. I had never seen so many female VCs in a room.
Pocket: Women investors are the true unicorns! Seeing so many of them was unbelievable and inspirational.
Elizabeth: I was living in Baltimore near D.C., and Pocket lived in LA. We did not see this in our ecosystems despite our own interest. Pocket and I have always been believers in the arbitrage opportunity of investing in things that other people do not see the value in.
For example, I created a student-led fund at Johns Hopkins. As a geography, Baltimore has exceptional technical talent and companies coming out of it, but at the time, there was no real investment interest. When we started SoGal, it was similar but with women. Thankfully, more investors have created funds around it, but at the time, very few investors were interested in backing women and underrepresented founders.
What is the best lesson that you have given each other?
Pocket: We’ve been through some hard times together. When we started, we were one of the only women-focused VC funds run by millennials, and we were in our early 20s. We went on an unconventional path, and there were many times when we wondered whether we could do it.
Elizabeth: Through that, Pocket has had tremendous wisdom that is way beyond her years. She grounds me when things are stressful or hectic. She helps me to see the bigger picture when I am down in the details. She often reminds me of the bigger vision that we are going after.
Pocket: Elizabeth has shown me that the sky was the ceiling. When I came to the U.S. for college, I was alone. It was the first time I had been so far away from my family in China. I felt like an outsider. It was an inspiration to witness Elizabeth build her fund at Johns Hopkins. She built it through cold outreach to alumni, hustle and strategy. I learned so much about what was possible. It taught both of us lessons that would lead to SoGal Ventures.
She grounds me when things are stressful or hectic. She helps me to see the bigger picture when I am down in the details. She often reminds me of the bigger vision that we are going after.
Have you ever disagreed on a deal, and how did you overcome it?
Pocket: It happens often, and we like that. For example, Elizabeth first found Eterneva, a consumer tech company that creates diamonds from the ashes of your loved one. She had great conviction about it and connected with it. Growing up in China, I had a different concept about death and grief. It didn’t echo with me at first. I thought, I don’t want to be made into a diamond after I die. I don’t think people around me want to be made into a diamond either.
Elizabeth was chasing the deal hard. She went to the office in Austin and talked often to the founders. I learned more about how the company was run and how the team members embody this new and innovative spirit around death-care. The more she did that, the more I got over the line. It took us a while to make the decision, and we talked through what we liked and what we were worried about. Eventually, we transformed the worries into areas that we sought to add value later.
Our process of investing in a deal always involves convincing each other, as well as playing devil’s advocate. We extract thoughts out of each other. We want to exhaust all the arguments that we could make for or against the investment. We want to make sure that we have understood it all.
Elizabeth: In order to make deal decisions, we share our own unique perspective and learn from each other. The debate is my favorite part of the process. We constantly switch. Even though I may have conviction in a deal, I also have doubts. In one conversation, I might lean into my doubts, while Pocket finds the positives that I haven’t thought about.
In order to make deal decisions, we share our own unique perspective and learn from each other. The debate is my favorite part of the process. We constantly switch. In one conversation, I might lean into my doubts, while Pocket finds the positives that I haven’t thought about.
What’s one deal that you wouldn’t have been able to do without each other?
Elizabeth: I’d say all of them, but let’s think about one in particular!
Pocket: I would not have done HealthTech deals without Elizabeth. She has the background and the expertise. We’ve invested in many digital health companies, and she’s taught me a lot.
Elizabeth: On the flip side, Pocket helps us and our companies think about global strategy whether it’s how to expand, hire or manufacture internationally. She’s the rock to all matters global business.
How can you cheer the other person up?
Elizabeth: Sometimes when you are so ambitious, you don’t take time to celebrate your success. Over time, we have tried to get better at pausing and having gratitude for each success we accomplish. Pocket has come up with a few ways to do it. For example, we’ll pause in conversation and then clap into the phone for 20 seconds. Sometimes, it can be powerful enough to make our founders cry!
Pocket: Elizabeth is a very caring person, and she picks the best gifts. Two years ago, I came out as a lesbian. She was observant and realized something was going on. She was the first person I talked to about it. Throughout the year she kept sending me little gifts, like a notebook that said “Love is Love” or a t-shirt that said “Empowered by Love.” It was incredible to have her on my side like a family member.
Elizabeth also created fun Bitmojis that look like me and her. When we have a good or bad day, she’ll send me a Bitmoji of us with all this money falling down from the sky, cha-ching!
Sometimes when you are so ambitious, you don’t take time to celebrate your success. Over time, we have tried to get better at pausing and having gratitude for each success we accomplish.
Follow Elizabeth, Pocket, and SoGal Ventures on Twitter and LinkedIn.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Dana Iverson is a student at Princeton University in the School of Public and International Affairs with Minors in Entrepreneurship and Urban Studies. She is currently on a gap-year and works on the Public Policy and Business Development Team at Tesla. She is a writer at All Raise. Find her on Twitter and LinkedIn.
