AYS Special — An account from an Italian deportation centre: the story of Z.
Mai Più Lager — NO ai CPR is an Italian network that reports about and denounces conditions inside deportation centres in the country.
Here you can find the translation of their latest interview with a young man recently released from one of the prisons. The original interview can be found at this link.
Detained in a deportation centre for 33 days: the story of 22-year-old Z.
We meet Z. a few hours after his release from the CPR (Centro di Permanenza per il Rimpatrio) of Turin. Before returning to Rome, where he lives, he is briefly stopping in Milan to visit the friend who put him in touch with us. [After receiving the message from the friend of Z., Mai più Lager — NO ai CPR contacted LasciateCIEntrare, who succeeded in finding a lawyer who managed to get Z. free].
Hands tucked inside his pockets, Z. is waiting for us under the “apple” of Milan Central Station. He is African, and like many others he had crossed the Mediterranean when he was still a minor and landed in Sicily. He looks older than his 22 years, with his black eyes and a gaze that is both hurt and proud. A few minutes later, in a cafe, the initial hesitation disappears and he agrees that telling his story would be useful to let more people know what a Centro di Permanenza per il Rimpatrio is. We ask him a few questions, before seeing him leaving with a Flixbus to Rome, with the same clothes he was wearing the day he got arrested, and a fear of going back to that prison.
For how long have you been in Italy?
Almost 6 years.
For how many days have you been detained inside the CPR of Turin?
A month and 3 days.
I know you were in Milan and they stopped you randomly one night.
Yes, they told me it was a normal check and they brought me to the Questura, but after 20 hours they brought me to Turin telling me that the researches on my documents had a negative outcome. I didn’t have anything with me, I had these clothes you see me wearing now, the same with which they let me out.
But didn’t you have a lawyer in Rome already and a pending lawsuit?
Yes, I had a humanitarian permit until May 2019. I made an application to renew it but it got rejected, therefore I appealed. We’re awaiting the hearing.
In fact, I know that you were released because the lawyer in Turin proved that you had a pending trial in Rome, with regards to your documents. Can you tell specifically what happened when they moved you from Milan to Turin that night?
They brought me there with a van, together with a Chinese man and a Moroccan man; but they told me we were going to a community centre in Turin.
A community centre? Can you tell us about your arrival?
Yes, in a community centre. I didn’t know where I was going until we arrived to Turin. Once entered, I thought I was in a prison but they told me there, on the spot, that it was a CPR.
When I entered, they told me that in order to be able to use my phone, I had to smash the front and back cameras because you can’t record anything inside there. They give you a paper to sign where they ask you to break your phone, if you want to keep it with you. But when I tried to break the cameras, I broke the entire screen, and I could not use it anymore.
They made me sign an additional paper where it was stated that they would give me back my clothes once I’ll get out. They gave me a sweat suit, we all had the same sweat suit, but mine was XL; I asked for a smaller one because I’m thin, but they replied “you’re lucky to have one”.
How was your room?
It was a room with 7 beds, but we were 8 people in total. Another two people slept in the canteen cause they didn’t want to stay there. They gave me a blanket but they never changed it in the month I was there.
The bathroom is in the room, ours didn’t have a window nor a vent : if you go to the toilet, people in the room can hear everything. There are showers, but they give you very little soap: three small plastic bags a week (smaller than a sugar bag). Sometimes, once every two weeks.
And for the food?
They give you 3 small biscuits in the morning with a cup of caffelatte (coffee with milk). Then, for lunch and dinner, pasta and chicken sausages. I ate chicken every day.
Is there a place to pray?
No, you can only pray in the canteen, given that it is not functioning anymore: the tables are all broken. Everyone eats in their rooms, on the bed or on the floor, because there are no chairs. They bring food to the room.
Were you there when some of the prisoners set fire to blankets and mattresses to protest the conditions?
Yes, but that is the normal procedure if you want them to listen to your requests, they do it every day. If you are cold, for example, they say they have nothing to give you to warm you up.
For example, if you hurt yourself, sometimes it takes time to intervene. They tell you they have to wait for the inspector in order to be able to call for help; but it also takes time for the inspector to come to the place. This is why the guys burn the mattresses: to get help quicker. If you do nothing they don’t come. If you burn things, the police, the finance police, the carabinieri and the army run there immediately.
Is it true that there is a place where they put people in solitary confinement?
Yes, a friend told me he was in isolation for two months, but he didn’t tell me why. It’s almost six months now that he’s been in the CPR. He requested to voluntarily return to his country of origin and instead they brought him to the CPR and until now they have not given him an answer.
Were you there when D. was on a hunger strike?
Yes he was in the same room with a friend of mine, in the area where I was detained too. I met him there, they told me it was a few days that he hadn’t eaten anything. Sometimes he ate a few biscuits and drank water, but he went to the doctor. And he said he was willing to refuse water as well, if necessary. Then he went to do his interview and was released. Because he didn’t even have to stay in the CPR. He was a refugee, he was a journalist in his country.
The people you met, have they been in Italy for a long or short time?
Mainly the people there had been in the country for one or two years. Nobody had just landed. There was a guy whose permit had just expired: he went to the Questura to renew it and they took him directly to the CPR.
All in all, did you feel the CPR looked more like a reception centre or a prison?
I was in a reception centre for unaccompanied minors. I think the CPR is more similar to a prison. Even a person who was there and spent some time in a prison told me that it was better to stay in prison than in a CPR because in prison there is the possibility to go to school, to the gym, there are things to do, while in the CPR there is nothing.
Sometimes they don’t even allow you to go out to the courtyard to get some air, you wake up and there’s nothing to do. If it doesn’t rain sometimes you can play football in the courtyard, otherwise everyone has to stay in his own room.
Can you receive visits in the CPR, see a friend?
No, you have to make a request to meet someone, but they don’t accept it, they have to confirm it and it takes a long time.
And the lawyers?
Lawyers do not enter where we are detained. They go to a meeting room, in an office. They come for the hearings or sometimes if they are there for one case they call you to talk with you. But they don’t come where we live: you have to go to this office, with the police, never alone.
Were there investigations or journalists coming inside while you were there?
No, nobody, they don’t let anyone in, just the cultural mediators working with them.
Are you happy to be out?
Yes. It is not easy to live in that centre. I don’t think a person can stay there for a long time. Those who have been there for 4–5 months start talking with themselves. The guy who was in solitary confinement told me “it is not easy here, it’s better to return to your country than to stay here”.
Sometimes we hear the demonstrations outside, the guys are happy and then they come into the room saying “come and hear what’s going on outside, these are the people on our side”. Then also the guys inside start making noises, even if the guards get angry. The guards let them do it a little bit but then they get angry.
The other day, when I was leaving, one of them looked at me and said, “I know you’re going out, but in 10 days you’ll be back here again, we’ll see each other again.”
Thank you, Z., and sorry for what we have done to you.
[He looks at me, lowers his eyes and hints at a smile.]
Original interview and text by Mai più Lager — NO ai CPR.
Find daily updates and special reports on our Medium page.
If you wish to contribute, either by writing a report or a story, or by joining the info gathering team, please let us know.
We strive to echo correct news from the ground through collaboration and fairness. Every effort has been made to credit organizations and individuals with regard to the supply of information, video, and photo material (in cases where the source wanted to be accredited). Please notify us regarding corrections.
If there’s anything you want to share or comment, contact us through Facebook, Twitter or write to: areyousyrious@gmail.com.
