All-Rounders: Nemo Ashong on ‘Inclusion’
Part One of the interview by Christy Davis and Ysel Fresnido
It is such a treat to meet and welcome another all-rounder into our network! We enjoyed an awesome, energy-filled conversation with Niiamah “Nemo” Ashong, Founder of Empjoyment.
A natural extrovert, his life’s mission is to create a truly inclusive and empowered world by spreading joy to millions. Empjoyment is a unique startup that helps people to discover, embrace and leverage their unique talents and strengths to pursue possibilities worth creating — their impossible goals, their moonshots, their impact — that would bring them joy and fulfillment.
We began our conversation with Nemo tracing back to his beginnings in Pennsauken, New Jersey, USA. Nemo was a member of the school marching band, and later the jazz band, playing the alto saxophone, tuba, and trombone. His professional career wasn’t to be music, however: he began his career as an actuarial consultant at Deloitte Consulting in New York City, helping companies with their pension plans and benefits administration. Over time, he began to desire more, and realized that he had the talent and heart to expand beyond actuary work. He then made a major career switch to join a tech company in a learning and development role.
After two years of tech company bliss, he relocated with his wife to Singapore to become an entrepreneur. When an opportunity arose for her in Singapore, they decided to make the move to Asia. Initially, his wife was more enthusiastic than he was to jump the Pacific, but “I love my wife,” Nemo said, and a conversation he had with a friend at that time helped him realize that the bigger the change you go through, the more adversity you might find yourself in, the less comfortable that you are — the more accelerated your growth will be.
With that as a preamble, read on for Part I of our heart to heart with Nemo — a conversation packed with such a treasure trove of thoughts and insights there will be a Part 2!
Reflecting back, how did music, the discipline of having to learn an instrument, and the training to play in a marching band provide early skills or a foundation for your life? Do you use that experience?
I was really good at playing alto sax, but the tuba was calling to me — it was the deep bass line I heard in my head, and I made the switch. I think I learned at that point to let go of the good, or even the great, when it was something which gave me such satisfaction and pleasure.
Practicing consistently is key to becoming proficient on an instrument. This means being able to build the discipline of spending time alone. As an entrepreneur, being able to sit down and say, “I’m not sure if it’s all going to work for me, but I’m willing to put in the work now to pursue the mission” is very similar.
A third aspect is around relationships and harmony. I think my strongest relationships came from that high school marching band. There’s also the relationship between various instruments and how the ensemble can shine. The experiences and lessons that I got from those moments grounded me in a meaningful way.
Now you are an entrepreneur. When you need to spend time by yourself to figure things out, is it an uncomfortable space for you when you’re naturally more of a ‘people-person’ and want to work with others?
It’s difficult for me and at the same time it’s still very rewarding. My Myers-Briggs type is ENTP (Extrovert, Intuitive, Thinking, Perceiving — in other words, Nemo has an extroverted intuition with introverted thinking), but I’m actually right on the border of T and F (Thinking versus Feeling) which makes it a little bit of fun because I can think about something logically but there will always be a human emotion component. I get my energy from being around others, but I also desire to have deep technical knowledge. This balance goes back with the practice of music — being alone in a practice room, as well as the togetherness of a marching band.
Did your career change (moving from being an actuary to working in the tech industry learning and development space) happen intuitively for you?
I would love to say that I thought of making a change in advance and I just had the foresight, but it actually came from a couple of different places. The biggest part was I knew I was going to make a change in my life and I wanted to lead that change, making it not just because it’s happening to me, but it’s happening FOR me. I needed to own that direction.
The second thing was that I found something that aligned with exactly what I wanted to do, bringing together a community within the learning and development role in the tech company. I could use all my acquired skills and experiences toward something that would energize me. I believe that “a goal is a place to come from, not a place to get to.” From that perspective, when I was interviewing for the position, I wasn’t trying to get the job, but had the attitude that it’s already mine. When I was called for an interview the third time, I created my own one-pager on a hypothetical scenario based on what I’ve heard the role might need to be successful based on my research and conversations, to see if I have the right understanding of the job and how we would work together as a team. Coming in with that ownership, even with an actuarial background, demonstrated that I have always been building communities. So, this tech industry role was actually complementary alignment for me versus a career change.
A goal is a place to come from, not a place to get to.
So then, you come to Singapore and become an entrepreneur…
Yes, going full-time into it! That was also a journey. When I came here, I had the opportunity to build something on my own. If I’m going to do this, how can I be intentional, like the ‘sax vs. tuba’: am I playing the saxophone now or the tuba? What’s really calling to me? I started focusing on helping non-technical career changers get into tech companies, much like in my experience. Over time, it shifted to focusing (and it’s continuing to evolve) on helping people experience the joy of being all of who they are, bringing all of their experiences to the table, and using these to help collaborate and innovate in a way that wouldn’t have been possible without it.
I’m big on inclusion; it’s one of my core values. I find an inclusive environment can be created where people can bring all their experiences, not just their best selves but all of their selves, and utilize the whole to contribute. But even if the space has been created, do you as an individual know yourself well enough that you can bring all of who you are to the table? There’s a juxtaposition of creating an inclusive environment and helping people feel that level of inclusion themselves. Right now, I’m focusing on working with leaders in particular because there’s a multiplier effect from that layer. By working this way, we help these multi-talented, passionate, empathetic and energetic leaders to figure out how to survive and thrive in their environment, to bring out all of who they are and use that to set an example for other people like them.
There’s a juxtaposition of creating an inclusive environment and helping people feel that level of inclusion themselves.
Being an all-rounder means you are able to navigate different environments, not just work environments, but also in multi-cultural and multi-sector contexts. Does inclusivity require versatility?
I think the best way to answer this is to start with my definition of inclusion. When I talk about an inclusive environment or inclusivity, it refers to the celebration and valuing of the things that make us different. Because inclusion is so important to me and I’ve lived and worked across so many different groups, I learned how to be versatile. I was willing to figure out what I can bring to the table in a lot of different scenarios. Versatility and adaptability came as by-products. Did I become more inclusive because I was versatile? I believe so. Inclusion isn’t about just one specific identity, but creates room for all identities to come together. That’s why I choose to celebrate and value the things that make us different. We are 7+ billion people on this earth. The only thing we have in common is that we’re all different. If we can find a way to come together around that, then we might have a chance.
From the perspective of multi-cultural and multi-sector contexts, it is important to value and seek to understand each individual, their culture, environment or sector; to understand what makes them special, to lean into it and experience it. I think one of the barriers of true innovation is lack of inclusion. Have we created space for people to come in from various backgrounds to all be a part of the conversation? Then, have we created enough space for each of those different viewpoints to have a meaningful place at the table?
As you were describing all of these assets and experiences, it seems they actually become the fabric of who you are, not just a set of tools that you use.
I think the biggest asset or tool that you have is who you are. That’s a differentiator. I don’t work very well with checkboxes. I can get the end result with two boxes checked, so do I need to go through all ten? I think there’s a level of really embracing that. With the work that I do now, the spectrum of the different sector experiences is becoming very real. it’s an interesting juxtaposition that I’m still working through where it feels like there’s a for-profit, as well as a non-profit and a social aspect to it. I’m responding to this in a movement that I’m leading, the World Joy Movement, that looks at things in three different lenses — competition, cooperation, and collaboration.
The biggest asset that you have is who you are.
Want to know more about the World Joy Movement? We have lots more to learn from Nemo, including an interesting conversation on trust and relationships. Here’s Part Two of the interview.
