“5 Things That Should Be Done To Improve The US Educational System”, with Professor Todd Marshall of Ashland University

An Interview With Penny Bauder

Provide universal college opportunities for all incarcerated individuals. There are approximately two million incarcerate persons in the country. Industry experts and what I’ve seen myself, indicates that about 5% of those who are incarcerated should be enrolled in some level of a college program. That is some back of the envelope math, but I’ve seen this prove accurate in a variety of correctional settings. This means that about 100,000 incarcerated individuals should be enrolled in college. Until the U.S. can figure out a way to accomplish this, the societal impact of mass incarceration and recidivism will continue. The cost of one year of incarceration is comparable to Pell funding for an entire bachelor degree.

As a part of my interview series about the things that should be done to improve the US educational system I had the pleasure to interview Todd Marshall, who has spent over 20 years as a professor and administrator in higher education including nine years he spent in Ukraine. He has held positions as Professor, IT director, Library Director, Dean, Executive Director, Associate Provost, Interim Provost, and Vice President at different educational facilities. He has led online projects and programs in the former Soviet Union, Africa, and the United States, and set up the first U.S. accredited online hybrid master’s degree in the former Soviet Union in 2004 and the first government accredited online program in English-speaking Kenya in 2008. Before coming to Ashland, he served as technology director for a satellite-based education program serving 15,000 students across sub-Saharan Africa. His research includes a four-level model of the digital divide, digital learning systems, online education, and theology. With multiple graduate degrees in theology and technology, his focus area is the intersection of technology, theology, and education in developing environments.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share the “backstory” behind what brought you to providing education in prison?

When I came to Ashland University in 2015, I did not even know that the University had a college-in-prison program. I had experience with some jail chaplaincy when I was in seminary, but I certainly was not aware of all that Ashland was doing to help the students in prison.

I soon learned that Ashland has been continually offering college-in-prison since 1964. This makes Ashland the longest continually operating college-in-prison program in the U.S. I specifically became involved when Ashland became a participant in the Pell Experimental Sites Initiative (ESI). Around that time, the former program director retired and this unit became part of my portfolio of duties at the University. I have done so much work with technology innovation in challenging educational settings that this was a perfect fit for my passion. Ashland was offering college-in-prison before I was born and I hope they are doing this long after I’m gone. My job now is continuous improvement and expansion of opportunities for students. I view my work at Ashland as a stewardship.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you you’ve been involved in providing access to education in prison?

My favorite part of educational work in prisons is the commencements. They are always emotionally moving. During one commencement, I noticed a graduating student covering his face almost the whole time during the ceremony. He could not stop crying. His mother had driven over 1,000 miles to see her son graduate. After the ceremony, she pulled me aside and said, “You know, for the first time in my life I’m proud of my son. I know he’s always had potential, but he has wasted most of his life.” What do you say to such a person? I was floored. Graduation is a significant time in every student’s life, but this type of experience takes the degree of impact to a whole new level. I’ve taught graduate and undergraduate students in several countries, but I rarely see students as hard working or appreciative as those who study behind bars.

Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first providing education in prison? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

No single particular incident comes to mind. What I’ve learned the most from my work is how much we take our daily freedoms for granted. Prisons are highly regimented atmospheres that are noisy and uncomfortable. I’ve been to prisons in the South that don’t have air conditioning. In these conditions, most of our students are working adults and the average age is 38. I have tremendous respect for students who can work a full-time job in prison and still apply themselves and earn a degree. That requires sheer determination!

Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?

We are working on some opportunities to educate incarcerated students in some disciplines that have never been taught in prison. I can’t provide more detail at this time, but I’ll just say it involves digital skills. Newer technologies are opening new opportunities for education and work inside prisons. We are working to be on the cutting edge of this next wave.

Can you briefly share with our readers why you are an authority on education in prison?

Ashland University is the largest and longest continually operating college-in-prison program in the U.S. We are in seven states and that will dramatically increase over the next 12 months. In three years we have grown almost ten-fold, from 350 to over 2,500 incarcerated students. Our incarcerated students are serving time in maximum security prisons, jails, youth detention centers and other corrections environments. I personally have met with dozens of state corrections leaders and know many of the leaders in the America Correctional Association and the Correctional Education Association. We have also worked with more technology vendors and partners than any other college or university. Currently, we’re partnered with Securus Technologies offering Lantern to thousands of students. Lantern was the first LMS (Learning Management Solution) created specifically for corrections. It’s changing lives.

Although I’ve only been working with college-in-prison for a few years, this has given me broad exposure as a practitioner and leader in the field.

Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the main focus of our interview. From your point of view, how would you rate the results of the US education system in prison?

There is a long way to go to fully normalize college-in-prison across the county, however the wave is moving in the right direction and growing in strength. The bipartisan support has been very encouraging. It’s important that everyone must remember that for the most part, college-in-prison went away for over 20 years. What is burgeoning now is still in its infancy, especially regarding the role of technology in prison education.

Can you identify 5 areas of the US education system in prison that are going really great?

1. There is increasing access. With the restoration of the Pell ESI (Experimental Sites Initiative), thousands of incarcerated student are now working on degrees that are fully funded in many cases. By that I mean no out of pocket costs for incarcerated students. This allows them to study without having to go into debt.
2. For the first time, incarcerated students are able to have online or distance education courses. This is absolutely essential for education to scale within the prison system. Most incarcerated students have jobs in prison, and as such, are working adults who have to squeeze their education into an already busy and hectic life.
3. The culture of corrections has migrated over recent decades from a punitive approach to a rehabilitation approach. One of my biggest surprises in working with Wardens at first was their true compassion for those under their charge. They want the best for their incarcerated population and they want them to get their lives on track so that they never return to prison again.
4. I have found facilities to be overwhelmingly accepting of college-in-prisons. Many staunch Wardens who had security or other concerns with digital education drastically changed their position once they saw the change in their prison culture after one or two semesters.
5. I have been very impressed by the dedication of the students in prison. Not all are in the right place academically or in their life, but the vast majority see education as a lifeboat to help get their life back on track and regain hope about the future. In short, college-in-prison works.

Can you identify the 5 key areas of the US education system in prison that should be prioritized for improvement? Can you explain why those are so critical?

Here are my top five priorities:

1. Provide universal college opportunities for all incarcerated individuals. We know that education is connected to reducing recidivism. That alone should expedite work to put education tablets in the hands of the incarcerated individuals who want to enroll.
2. Restore Pell funding for all incarcerated individuals. Hope is a powerful thing, and that’s exactly what the Second Chance Pell Grant symbolizes.
3. Create an approval process for colleges to operate in prisons. Ashland University is very intentional about maintaining good relationships with Department of Corrections in the various states. There are many more universities who are interested in getting involved — we should make it easier and provide more education options.
4. In general, more technology in the hands of the incarcerated. Once released, they’ll need to learn how to use tablets, keyboards and touchscreen devices. Many were incarcerated before there were even cellphones. Using technology is now a basic life skill. Providing access while they’re incarcerated will expedite that knowledge and their transition.
5. There is another aspect of the U.S education system that is our number one barrier, but it’s not part of the formal U.S. education system. That barrier is academic elitism in some correctional facilities. I’ve seen a number of programs that focus on a small, carefully-chosen handful of incarcerated students for intimate face-to-face courses. These programs serve those specific students well, however those models simply aren’t scalable. If that is the only model that is acceptable in a facility, then the vast majority of incarcerated individuals will never have the opportunity to attend college-in-prison. Online learning has been around for well over 20 years and research shows that you can achieve equal outcomes to face to face learning. Face to face educational programs are beneficial, but digital educational programs can reach incarcerated individuals on a massive scale. Our university is targeting the masses.

If you had the power to influence or change the entire US educational infrastructure in regards to education in prison, what five things would you implement to improve and reform our education system? Can you please share a story or example for each?

1. Provide universal college opportunities for all incarcerated individuals. There are approximately two million incarcerate persons in the country. Industry experts and what I’ve seen myself, indicates that about 5% of those who are incarcerated should be enrolled in some level of a college program. That is some back of the envelope math, but I’ve seen this prove accurate in a variety of correctional settings. This means that about 100,000 incarcerated individuals should be enrolled in college. Until the U.S. can figure out a way to accomplish this, the societal impact of mass incarceration and recidivism will continue. The cost of one year of incarceration is comparable to Pell funding for an entire bachelor degree. There is plenty of research showing that college-in-prison reduces recidivism, just look at the work of the Rand Group and the VERA Institute of Justice. College education will not eliminate crime, however it will dramatically improve the lives of incarcerated individuals and have a demonstrable positive impact on their families and their communities. It will also save tax payers millions by converting incarcerated individuals into successful, working members of their communities.
2. Restore Pell funding for all incarcerated individuals. When Pell funding ceased in the 1990s, Ohio was very blessed to have the state government fund college courses that lead to “Advanced Job Training” certificates, even if students could not earn an associate or bachelor degree. Almost 70 colleges received permission for Pell funding in 2016 and the Department of Education is reviewing a second round of applicants. However, until Pell funding is fully restored, the vast majority of incarcerated individuals will not have the opportunity for college. There is no other way to sustain large scale educational opportunities for incarcerated individuals without funding and access to digital education like Lantern from Securus.
3. Create an approval process for colleges operating in prisons. Part of the reason that Pell funding was taken away for incarcerated individuals in the 90s was because of abuses by some colleges. I’ve seen come colleges abuse prison education and I’ve seen some colleges get into prison education because they think it will help cure their fiscal woes. Not all colleges are prepared to serve incarcerated students and I’m very concerned that colleges who go in with the wrong motivation or without respect for the culture could damage the opportunity for the broader student population in prisons as a whole. Pell funding for college-in-prison is an amazing door of opportunity which must be opened further, but I have concerns about potential abuses which could close that door once again.
4. Develop deeper levels of cooperation between colleges and prisons. The main challenge here is that some educators do not respect the role of the Correctional Officials from the Head of the Department to the Warden to the Correctional Officer to the Educator working in the prison. Prisons are unique environments. We serve Wardens and the Correctional Staff, just as much as we serve the incarcerated students. One must understand the prison as a holistic ecosystem.
5. Simplify federal aid processes. This would involve creating a digital system for financial aid applications that incarcerated individuals could use. The vast majority of our incarcerated students are funded by Pell grants which require students to fill out a paper FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid). Most typical college students have the help of a parent when completing this and they file their documents online. When a person goes to prison, they don’t normally have access to their financial records so our University has to help the incarcerated student access these records from friends or family. Incarcerated individuals also do not have access to file their application digitally.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“You can laugh or you can cry, but crying gets old.” I lived in Ukraine for almost a decade and have traveled extensively in Africa. I’ve seen a lot of suffering and a lot of sad situations. The case is the same with prisons. Sometimes you have absolutely no control over your circumstance and just when you think nothing can go wrong, the other shoe drops. In that situation you can laugh or you can cry, but the crying gets old. I’m inspired by the incarcerated individuals who stop the crying and take the necessary steps to improve their lives.

We are blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them :-)

I would love to have a chat with Bill Gates. I know he is passionate about education, technology, and the future. We are on the verge of a significant revolution involving technology, education, and culture in the correctional context. Mr. Gates is the type of visionary who could grasp the significance of this opportunity and also do something about it. This is a unique historical opportunity that’s not just about improving education, it’s about changing our society by breaking the cycle of recidivism and the scourge of mass incarceration. I’m always looking to connect with serious people who share my passion. There are amazing opportunities to fund changes in corrections industry, which will affect generations to come. Pell grants covers the basics of incarcerated student educational costs, but the innovation and game-changing technologies will require additional funding.

How can our readers follow you on social media?

The best way is linked in: www.linkedin.com/in/dr-todd-marshall

We also have two great videos about our program that show what we are doing.

https://vimeo.com/289925256

https://auvideo.mediaspace.kaltura.com/media/1_1cf7unv6

Thank you so much for these insights! This was so inspiring!