Author Kathryn Mayer On How To Get Past Your Perfectionism And ‘Just Do It’
Lighten up! Get rid of limiting “shoulds” such as “I must have a clean house.” Instead, create empowering new mantras such as “I can hire a housecleaner and accept that it will be clean enough.” Identify activities that encourage playfulness. It could be hula-hooping 5 minutes a day, taking a singing course, or any other passion that brings joy outside of work achievements — and results in more creativity, innovation, and productivity.
Many successful people are perfectionists. At the same time, they have the ability to say “Done is Better Than Perfect” and just complete and wrap up a project. What is the best way to overcome the stalling and procrastination that perfectionism causes? How does one overcome the fear of potential critique or the fear of not being successful? In this interview series, called “How To Get Past Your Perfectionism And ‘Just Do It’, we are interviewing successful leaders who can share stories and lessons from their experience about “how to overcome the hesitation caused by perfectionism. As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Kathryn Mayer.
Kathryn Mayer coaches high-potential and C-Suite executives and delivers leadership seminars globally, drawing from her background as a former top ranked amateur tennis player and developing talent in demanding corporate settings, including Goldman Sachs, Deloitte, and Citigroup. She is the author of three books: Collaborative Competition™, How to Stay SANE and Successful in the COVID World, and The Productive Perfectionist: A Woman’s Guide to Smashing the Shackles of Perfectionism, which was published June 18, 2024. She is certified by the International Coach Federation (ICF) at the PCC level as an executive coach.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
I am the oldest of five children. My father was a neurology professor at the University of Maryland and my mother was a social worker and volunteer in local Democratic politics. My parents were both from small towns and were the first to go to college in their respective families. They valued hard work, family and striving for excellence. I learned to play tennis at nine years old as my mother wanted each of her children to find something that they would enjoy. I took regular tennis lessons and played in tennis tournaments as my mother believed it was important to do things well and test yourself so you could continue to improve. We were not a close family, rather everyone was busy doing and achieving. I have a developmentally delayed brother, Chris, with whom I have a close relationship. Chris has made me a more compassionate human being with a silly sense of humor.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
If you are going to do something, you need to do it well. This was the value that my mother taught us and has driven me to achieve. This life lesson shows up in that if I take up something new, such as skiing or cooking, I always take lessons so that I can improve and be the best that I can be at a particular skill. It also contributed to my perfectionism as it didn’t allow much room to do things just for the fun of it!
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
Pressure is a Privilege by Billie Jean King. This is her famous quote and her book shares how she came to view life in this way. It is a phrase along with her story that reminds me how critical it is to find perspective in every situation. When I have been under stress, I tended to blame or get stuck in a negative mindset. And this book provided me with a much more positive and larger perspective that has allowed me to see the opportunities when confronted with challenges.
You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
The three-character traits that have helped me succeed are: desire to grow, creativity, and service.
Desire to grow. I have always loved learning as I started taking tennis lessons when I was nine years old. And, I have continued to hire coaches and take classes to learn. For example, when the pandemic hit and I had to redesign my coaching/training business to transition from 25% virtual delivery to 100% virtual. To move quickly, I hired a presentation/engagement coach and revised all my presentations and took a coaching class. Both resulted in helping my business grow when many were shrinking.
Creativity. I have always been attracted to creative activities such as theatre and art, but never engaged in them myself until after I stopped playing competitive tennis. I have experimented with many activities, including painting, writing, improvisation, and African dancing. These various creative endeavors have made me a more engaging speaker and better coach. For example, when I was struggling to implement a major change initiative, my boss suggested I lighten up and I attended a weekend clown school which resulted in me finding more empathy and a sense of humor for myself and others.
Service. I was brought up with a strong sense of giving back from my parents. My mother was an active volunteer throughout my childhood. I enjoy mentoring and have focused on mentoring women who are in. the first generation to attend college. Mentoring these women who have been from Russia, Egypt, Puerto Rico, China, and India, has broadened my perspectives and made me a more empathic person.
Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. Let’s begin with a definition of terms so that each of us and our readers are on the same page. What exactly is a perfectionist? Can you explain?
There’s a difference between perfection and perfectionism. For example, we want our accountant to be accurate and timely with our tax returns, but we can overlook a typo in an email. Often, good really is enough; spending that final 20% to get it perfect won’t yield a better outcome. Perfectionists link their identity to accomplishments, continuously seeking affirmation that they’re good enough. Otherwise, they feel like imposters and failures — depressed and insecure. They avoid taking risks. They can’t take rejection. They’ll put their heads down, work hard, study, practice, take lessons, and get advanced degrees with honors.
The premise of this interview series is making the assumption that being a perfectionist is not a positive thing. But presumably, seeking perfection can’t be entirely bad. What are the positive aspects of being a perfectionist? Can you give a story or example to explain what you mean?
What’s great about perfectionists is that they care about doing things well and want to be productive. Key synonyms for “productive” include: profitable, gratifying, industrious, and practical. Perfectionists tend to believe that it is more important to focus on being industrious (focused on the work itself) versus achieving gratification (focused on the process). Perfectionists strive to achieve or exceed standards. Perfection is critical for doctors, accountants, aviators, and engineers — where mistakes can be fatal. They tend to do well in school. They are very reliable and you want to give a project to a perfectionist as you know he/she will get it done.
What are the negative aspects of being a perfectionist? Can you give a story or example to explain what you mean?
As an executive coach, where 70% of my clients are women, I find perfectionism the true gender ceiling: Women strive for perfection while men view perfection as important in some situations but unrealistic in others. Thus, women believe striving for perfection strengthens their reputation — even when it weakens their position. Here’s an example from my own coaching practice:
“Betsy” always prided herself on striving for perfection. This strategy helped her move from successful money manager to C-Suite executive. Betsy and her boss, “Dave,” the division’s president, had worked together effectively, delivering strong financial returns.
Dave became frustrated with Betsy — she seemed to take an eternity to finish some tasks. He’d asked her to review the compensation plan for a group of employees she supervised and provide some quick wins and longer-term recommendations. Months passed with no update. Dave wondered what was taking so long. He even permitted her to hire a few more people to reduce her workload. He was beginning to question her judgment.
But Betsy had found numerous serious issues in the compensation plan. She believed nothing short of a complete overhaul was warranted. Betsy viewed her boss’s request as an opportunity to impress by conducting a comprehensive review.
As Betsy’s coach, I shared that I had spoken with Dave during our monthly check-ins and that he had expressed frustration with her slow rate of work, which led him to question her judgment. Betsy looked exasperated and shocked. I asked Betsy if she and Dave had ever agreed on a definition of winning. Betsy said no. She believed her boss wanted her to do the best job possible. But for Dave, winning meant he wanted it done faster rather than perfectly. Betsy’s judgment was clouded by her striving for perfection — she couldn’t see her boss questioning her credibility as a senior executive.
From your experience or perspective, what are some of the common reasons that cause a perfectionist to “get stuck” and not move forward? Can you explain?
Perfectionists strive to achieve or exceed standards. But this can result in working too slowly, missing the big picture, or pushing oneself too hard. This means that they will only apply for a new job if they can do almost 100% of the qualifications. They tend to focus on their performance versus their potential. So, they may struggle to delegate, let go of tasks, and be fearful of making changes. And, perfectionists have not learned how to be resilient which is critical in the 21st century if you are to be productive. According to the New York Times Magazine, “An age of constant invention naturally begets one of constant failure. The life span of an innovation, in fact, has never been shorter.” (Davidson, Adam. “Welcome to the Failure Age!” New York Times Magazine, 12 Nov. 2014.) To harness this new age of failure, individuals must learn to quickly bounce back from mistakes and create societal organizations that mitigate disasters.
Here is the central question of our discussion. What are the five things a perfectionist needs to know to get past their perfectionism and “just do it?” Please share a story or example for each.
Five actions for productivity
As a perfectionist, you want to excel — and excellence is much more achievable than perfection. This strategy helps you attain excellence by starting small — taking tiny steps — and checking off minor victories. These five interrelated actions can be done in as little as five minutes a day:
1. Build a positive emotional foundation: clarify how three positive emotions — joy, gratitude, and compassion — can keep perfectionism from overwhelming you, and learn the daily practices that result in increased productivity.
“Faye,” a working single mother and self-proclaimed perfectionist in a male-dominated career, felt uncomfortable asserting her views or her need to attend events for her six-year-old daughter. She hired a coach to increase her confidence. After the first session, she realized she wasn’t self-compassionate. Faye berated herself to work harder than the men, felt her home was never clean enough, and rarely allowed herself time to enjoy her daughter. The coaching helped her identify a list of positive attributes.
Adopting the affirmation, “I will be supportive of myself, no matter what,” she took a half-day off to attend her daughter’s ballet event and hired a house cleaner. Taking time off for herself and letting go of scrubbing her home built her confidence.
Three months later, Faye had detached from work demands during the holidays to enjoy time with her family — and came back refreshed and energized. Realizing that self-compassion is the foundation for taking smart risks led her to assert herself with her boss more often — becoming more productive.
2. Strive for the situational win: excellence instead of perfection: set your definitions of accomplishment within each specific situation, both for yourself and your team. This approach helps you progress on your goals, adapt quickly to change, and enjoy your life overall.
This is the story of “Betsy,” who I mentioned earlier in the interview. Betsy was aiming — slowly — for perfection, when her boss, Dave, really wanted “good enough” — and he wanted it quickly. To achieve perfection, Betsy had to exceed her boss’s expectations and work overtime.
But for Dave, winning meant getting the project done faster rather than perfectly. They had differing ideas on the situational win. One of the most important things a perfectionist needs to learn is to pause and ask what the situational win looks like. Situational wins involve gaining agreement on what conditions will satisfy both the individual carrying out the task and the other key stakeholders. Situational wins reduce anxiety and increases productivity and effectiveness.
Dave’s idea of a situational win had been to make only a few changes to the compensation plan in year one, and implement other reforms in the future. Once Betsy realized that there was a lack of agreement on the final goal, she was able to clear it up with her boss and complete the project. Betsy also had an A-ha moment: She needed to start trusting Dave’s intent more and ask questions, instead of assuming the worst. And Betsy needed to realize that she couldn’t do everything herself, and Dave expected her to ask for resources to help her finish the report.
3. Learn how to evaluate what risks to take and rebound safely from slip-ups. Understand your approach to getting out of your comfort zone, and learn the steps to simplify risk-taking and rebound faster.
Risk involves taking actions that could result in a negative impact. Taking risks is smart and essential in today’s world if you want to innovate and adapt to the fast rate of change, and achieve career success. Examples of risk at work include sharing an unpopular view at a meeting, raising your hand for a new assignment, or engaging in a new activity, such as using AI, networking or delegating. Making it safe involves actions designed to protect yourself or your team from harm. Examples include being self-compassionate, building a strategic network, working with your approach to risk-taking, asking for support, or being politically savvy. For example, if you want to increase your network, you could start very small and share your goal with one person you trust and ask the person to make an introduction or to help you in a small way.
4. Create a safety net of trusted relationships: learn to be vulnerable in select ways (such as asking for help and giving credit), so you can build trust more quickly and become more productive.
Most of the women I coach never want to be vulnerable. The challenge with that view is that learning to be vulnerable in smart ways is how you build trust. One client, “Sabrina,” would always go out of her way to avoid making eye contact with the president of her division when he would walk by her desk on the trading floor. Sabrina was a trader who was a strong producer, but not very well-known. A huge, small step was for Sabrina to smile and say hello to the president. Then, she gradually built on that warm presence by sharing updates on her business in her small staff meetings, asking to attend the larger department meetings, and eventually asking how to get promoted to managing director. Sabrina said, “The president told me he would never promote anyone he did not know or have some comfort with.”
5. Lighten up! Get rid of limiting “shoulds” such as “I must have a clean house.” Instead, create empowering new mantras such as “I can hire a housecleaner and accept that it will be clean enough.” Identify activities that encourage playfulness. It could be hula-hooping 5 minutes a day, taking a singing course, or any other passion that brings joy outside of work achievements — and results in more creativity, innovation, and productivity.
For example, when I brought the idea of a playful activity up with a lawyer, Sally, who works in finance, she loved it. She’s a working mother with two young children, and she felt that she didn’t have enough fun in her life. As she was working on her list, she realized that she loves to dance and hang out with her children. So, she married the two by having brief, nightly dancing parties with her kids. They would select their favorite music and dance wildly in the living room. As she danced at least once a week with her children, she started to lighten up at work, which helped her manage a challenging situation by being more relaxed and calmer.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
Lighten up! I know myself and many other professionals take ourselves very seriously. And, we have many standards that are still driving our lives that we are either unaware of and/or are not serving us to live our happiest and most productive life.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Billie Jean King! I met her once at a sporting event for a few minutes. I was so impressed with her. She is so humble and curious. When I met her, she asked who I was, and what I did for a living. She was curious about the work I was doing as a coach and speaker. Billie is the kind of person who walks the talk. She didn’t talk about herself and is more interested in learning from others.
How can our readers follow you online?
I write a blog for all those perfectionists in recovery like myself who want to enjoy life more. Learn more about me and upcoming events my signing up for my mailing list at www.kcmayer.com
Connect with Kathryn Mayer:
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/kathryncmayer/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/GrandSlamCoach
Facebook: www.facebook.com/KCMConsulting
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
