BetterEV: Renee Grogan Of Impossible Mining’s Big Idea That Might Change The World

An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis

Know how what you do fits into the bigger picture. One of the (several) times I was retrenched (as I said, happens often in the mining industry) on my way out the door I had a chat with one of the Executives and I asked him what I could do better. He said “Renee, you’re a really good environmental manager — you know all about environmental issues, and you’re good at what you do. But you need to learn more about how what you do fits into the business. You need to know how environmental management fits in with finance, business growth, risk, return on investment, people management, expansion. Go and learn that.” It was such great advice, and it has been so valuable to me.

As a part of my series about “Big Ideas That Might Change The World In The Next Few Years” I had the pleasure of interviewing Renee Grogan, Chief Sustainability Officer and Co-Founder at Impossible Mining.

Renee is a sustainability expert with 16 years’ industry experience in the mining industry. She started her career in the desert of Western Australia and has since worked throughout Australasia, the Pacific, the United States, Africa and parts of Europe. Following a decade in terrestrial mining, Renee transitioned into the controversial seabed mining world. Since 2014 Renee has worked as a consultant, providing advice to financial institutions and funds, resources companies, intergovernmental agencies such as the World Bank and European Commission, and non-government organizations such as The Pew Charitable Trusts. Renee now serves as the Chief Sustainability Officer and Co-Founder at Impossible Mining, which is a supporter of BetterEV.org.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit. Can you please tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?

I started my career as a guileless conservationist who wanted to save the world, working in government on conservation policy. I took a conservation job in the desert of Western Australia, and when the contract finished, I found myself without a job, and surrounded by gold mines (literally). So I decided to try and bring my conservation-focus to the mining industry. In the early 2000’s, that was a pretty naïve idea. I spent fifteen years in the mining industry, constantly having reinforced to me the idea that sustainability and environmental performance were things that a mining company would always do as little of as possible — the bare minimum to satisfy the regulator and any other squeaky-wheel stakeholders. Throughout this time, I never gave up on the idea that such a dinosaur-like industry could be turned on its head — and taught that sustainability could be just as profitable as the “rape and pillage” approach.

In 2016 after being retrenched (an inevitability in an industry at the mercy of commodity cycles), I began consulting — to mining companies, policy makers, NGOs — sharing my learnings from 15 years on the inside. At the same time, I started to keep watch for a company that believed what I did — that sustainability could be even more profitable than traditional mining. It took five years, but in mid-2021 I found that company.

Can you please share with us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?

What an extraordinary question! I couldn’t even decide my most interesting story from this week! You know what…how about I leave that to you to decide — at the end of this interview, I wonder what you’ll think was the most interesting story.

But if you insist….once, when I was working on a mine site in Kalgoorlie, Western Australia, I was called out to catch a deadly snake (all part of the job) that had become stuck in an open drain. The water was hazardous (hyper-saline), the snake was both dangerous and quite cranky, and the crowd of onlookers was immense. To get the snake out, I had to get in the drain with it, and then put the snake bag on the ground next to it and encourage it to get in. It was a very interesting exercise in stress management, animal behaviour, and how to block out the noise of 30 blokes watching and taking bets on how long it would take me to get bitten. I learnt a bit that day.

Which principles or philosophies have guided your life? Your career?

Three things spring to mind.

The first is balance — I find that if there is balance, everything is okay. That applies to life in general, but also my work. A balance between hard work and rest, chocolate and vegetables, profit and meaning, water and wine. The principle is universal. As soon as you lose the balance, you’re in trouble.

The second is that every job, every situation, is a learning opportunity. I’ve had some pretty crappy jobs — spraying cactus in the desert, trying to get dirty old coal miners to care about the environment — jobs that were full of physical, mental and emotional challenges. But each one of them taught me many lessons — sometimes I didn’t appreciate the lesson until a decade down the track, but I think trying actively to seek out the lessons in everything my career throws at me, and not being above doing seemingly menial jobs along the way, has really helped my career.

The third thing is a combination of two seemingly opposing principles — firstly of immense “self-care”, and secondly that “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”. Being a young female in the mining industry I was subjected to abuse, harassment and bullying. Many of the things that are considered criminal acts today (or even back then) were things I put up with on a daily basis. I did some extremely physically challenging jobs, always knowing I was being watched to see when I would fail. I was on the Mines Rescue team, and was a part of some operations in underground mines that were scary, dangerous, and confronting. I try to see the positive in challenging experiences, but I also acknowledge the toll these experiences can take, and I look after myself accordingly — I take holidays and rests unapologetically, and I am not afraid to tell a superior that my plate is overloaded, and I actually can’t do the task they just gave me right now. I think keeping the precarious balance between those two concepts is immensely valuable.

Ok thank you for that. Let’s now move to the main focus of our interview. Can you tell us about your “Big Idea That Might Change The World”?

The big idea is to disrupt the Electric Vehicle supply chain and make it sustainable — not greenwashed, not what the mining industry considers “best practice” right now, but truly sustainable. Through BetterEV.org we have set the bar for the mining industry to deliver Responsible Metals to the EV market. BetterEV defines Responsible Metals as metals that are mined and refined in a way that:

• avoids widespread habitat destruction,
• eliminates toxic waste,
• maximizes circularity,
• avoids water scarcity,
• protects safety and human rights,
• avoids displacing indigenous people or communities and
• is carbon neutral.

That’s a mammoth undertaking — we know that. But imagine driving an EV that met those criteria. You’d feel pretty damn good, wouldn’t you?

We want BetterEV to be as recognisable as “Fair Trade” and “Organic”, with an independent certification process so that consumers can trust in the brand, and be proud to drive a BetterEV. We want new technology, new mindsets, new investments, to drive never-before seen innovation in the mining industry, so that in a decade, when half the world is driving an EV, the only EV you can buy is a BetterEV.

At Impossible Mining, we are aiming to deliver Responsible Metals to the EV market in a two-step process — first by developing autonomous robotic technology to mine battery metals from the seabed in a way that protects the ecosystem, avoids serious harm, and avoids polluting the seawater. Second, we are using naturally occurring bacteria to “breathe” the metal out of rock — with no toxic chemicals, no toxic waste and tailings, and no reliance on freshwater. We are passionately proud of our ambition to be the first mining company to deliver Responsible Metals to the EV market — to help car manufacturers realise the BetterEV dream.

How do you think this will change the world?

By showing that Responsible Metals are profitable, we can pave the way for global production of BetterEVs. When we show that delivering Responsible Metals is economically beneficial, there will be no excuse for mining companies to continue with the destructive, damaging methods of the past. When consumers can confidently say they drive a BetterEV, in the way they can confidently wear “Fair Trade” clothing today, we will have created the biggest sustainable market on the planet. And in time, as we apply the same Responsible Metals principles to the mining industry as a whole, and also the metal recycling industry, we will come to a point where all metals, in everything we consume as a human race, are Responsible Metals.

Keeping “Black Mirror” and the “Law of Unintended Consequences” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks about this idea that people should think more deeply about?

The first thing is the scale of innovation needed to transform the industry. At Impossible Mining we are aiming to show that Responsible Metals are firstly possible, and also profitable. A BetterEV must be an affordable EV — and this will only come with scale. Secondly, it involves a mammoth overhaul of attitudes — we need to kick the status quo to the side. If you ask any traditional mining executive today whether it’s possible to only mine Responsible Metals, most of them would answer an emphatic “NO”. We need to break free of this way of thinking. With innovation, technological advancements, and a new mindset, it is possible to make BetterEVs the reality.

Was there a “tipping point” that led you to this idea? Can you tell us that story?

For me personally, and I think also for the team at Impossible Mining, it was the concept that seabed mining might be needed to provide metals for the EV market, and that this new frontier of mining was potentially using technology that causes serious environmental harm as its foundation. I couldn’t bear the thought that mining of the seabed might follow the same rules as the terrestrial mining world — the ultimate rule that you need to destroy some areas in order to access metals. That’s what I couldn’t accept — that was the ‘stake in the ground’ moment for me. By flipping the conversation and saying “we need to transition from EVs to BetterEVs — using Responsible Metals” — you change the conversation away from a list of things that shouldn’t be allowed, to a definition of success. I think saying “seabed mining should be banned” is not the answer, because I would add lots of other things to that list — mining of rainforests, mining on traditional lands, mining where communities are displaced. Instead, BetterEV.org defines success. It’s not a list of things not to do — it’s a vision of a sustainable future. It’s a new mindset, and I’m incredibly passionate about making it a reality.

What do you need to lead this idea to widespread adoption?

We need investment and uptake. We need mining companies, battery and car manufacturers to invest in the transition to BetterEVs, and we need consumers to start demanding BetterEVs. Those two things together will create the momentum we need to transition the world to BetterEVs.

What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started” and why. (Please share a story or example for each.)

1. There’s more than one way to boil an egg. When you come up against a brick wall, it’s really beneficial to maintain enough perspective to stand back and think about whether there’s another way to achieve your goal. I once told a boss in mining that I needed to alert the Executive to an environmental issue. He told me that the Executive wouldn’t be interested in my environmental issue, and I had to think of another way to present the problem. I was so angry and frustrated, and I wasted a lot of time and energy sitting in that anger and frustration. After much coaching, my boss convinced me to capitalise the issue — to put a dollar value on the environmental problem. That went against my principles- I thought the Executive should care about the environment — but the reality was that they didn’t, and by putting a dollar value on the problem I was able to get their support, and to fix the environmental problem.
2. No-one will define your worth for you — you have to do that yourself. As a female in the mining industry, I was always paid less than my male peers. Only when I became a consultant, and I set my own daily charge out rate, did I understand that if I valued myself highly, others would too.
3. There will always be setbacks — be okay with that. Don’t spend too much emotional energy on them, and don’t let them define you. That’s the essence of resilience. This also feeds into the concept of “self-care”, because in my experience, we are more susceptible to falling in a heap over a setback when we are not taking care of ourselves.
4. It’s all about relationships. Work on them. Be empathetic and authentic. Keep some energy and time for relationships, because maintaining and building relationships takes both time and energy, and if you don’t allocate it, you won’t have it. Whenever I have managed people, I have always found that being available, empathetic and authentic mattered the most. If you have to have a tough conversation, it’s better to do it from a strong foundation. I once had to ask a truck driver in a big gold mine to explain an incident to me in which he had caused a large oil spill. I knew that the information he put on the incident report was not correct — and I also knew that he was unlikely to admit that. So I had a think about what I knew about him, his workplace, the time of day the incident happened, the type of truck he was driving, and I said “Righto, mate. If I can guess what happened in one guess, will you tell me if I’m right?” Because he knew me, and I had invested in building a relationship with his team, he agreed. And because I knew him, I guessed right. I made sure he wasn’t penalised for misleading me, and he respected me — for guessing right, but also for playing as one of the team.
5. Know how what you do fits into the bigger picture. One of the (several) times I was retrenched (as I said, happens often in the mining industry) on my way out the door I had a chat with one of the Executives and I asked him what I could do better. He said “Renee, you’re a really good environmental manager — you know all about environmental issues, and you’re good at what you do. But you need to learn more about how what you do fits into the business. You need to know how environmental management fits in with finance, business growth, risk, return on investment, people management, expansion. Go and learn that.” It was such great advice, and it has been so valuable to me.

Can you share with our readers what you think are the most important “success habits” or “success mindsets”?

Sheesh. I’m not sure I’m really qualified to answer this! A few mantras or statements that really help me are:

• You’re okay. Tomorrow is a new day. Whatever setback you had today, mourn it — go for a run, eat a brownie, whatever you need to do, then learn from it and move on.
• Learn. Learn. Learn. Learn. Every day, from everyone. Never miss an opportunity to learn, but also cut yourself a break — lessons aren’t failures.
• Make a plan. Your plan might change every week, or every year, but if you don’t have a plan you’re letting external forces determine your journey. That’s not cool.
• Look after yourself. Treat yourself with respect, and be kind to yourself.
• Be empathetic. Everyone you meet is struggling with something. That jerk in your office might be going through a terrible divorce, or have depression, or be carrying around the scar of an abusive childhood. You don’t need to love everyone, but try not to hate anyone.
• Balance. Always keep the balance. Some wine, some water. Some hard work, some rest. Some growth, some relaxation. Some money, some meaning.
• Back yourself. Back your beliefs, your skills, your experience, your personality, your very presence on the planet. Own it, make yourself proud. When you back yourself, others will back you too. And when you have a dream to change the world, back that.

Some very well known VCs read this column. If you had 60 seconds to make a pitch to a VC, what would you say? He or she might just see this if we tag them :-)

To the VCs, I would say: Look how big the mining industry is, and how much we rely on metals. Then look how big the EV market will be in ten years. Then look at how consumers feel about ESG and sustainability. Put these three issues together and you have an opportunity of galactic proportions. BetterEV is a long play — it’s not possible today — but it’s what we are working on at Impossible Mining, and in ten years’ time it has the potential to be the entire EV market, because that’s what consumers want, and what the planet needs. Why wouldn’t you want to be a part of that?

To Tesla, BMW, Volksagen, Rolls Royce, I would say: Let’s do this.

How can our readers follow you on social media?

Twitter — @ImpossMining

LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/company/impossible-mining/

Thank you so much for joining us. This was very inspirational.