Brian Webster Of Ball State University On How To Hire The Right Person

An Interview With Ken Babcock

Debrief. Sometime after the hire, or maybe once every year or two, companies should reflect on the hiring process. What is going wrong that can be fixed? More optimistically, what is going right that we can continue to lean into? Selection can be difficult. For this reason, it’s important organizations debrief somewhat regularly on what is going right in the selection process and what is going wrong. To do this, companies can interview employees and rejected applicants about the hiring process, look at turnover rates/promotion rates, and engage in panel discussions with hiring committees, to name a few.

When a company is looking to grow, the choice of who to hire can sometimes be an almost existential question. The right hire can dramatically grow a company, while the wrong hire can be very harmful to morale and growth. How can you know you are hiring the right person? What are the red flags that should warn you away from hiring someone? In this interview series, we are talking to business leaders who can share insights and stories from their experience about “How To Hire The Right Person”. As a part of this series I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Dr. Brian Webster.

Brian D. Webster is an associate professor of Management in the Miller College of Business at Ball State University. He received his Ph.D. in management from Oklahoma State University, his master’s degree in business administration from Mississippi State University, and his bachelor’s degree in finance from the University of Iowa. His recent awards and honors have included Miller College of Business Extraordinary Faculty Member of the Year (2018 & 2019), the Academy of Management Careers Division’s Overall Best Paper Award (2017), and Miller College of Business Department of Management Researcher of the Year (2019).

Thank you for joining us in this interview series. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’?

Thanks for having me. I did my undergraduate degree in finance. My thoughts at the time were to go into insurance or investments. Along the way I met a couple of professors who opened me to the idea of becoming a professor down the road. It seemed like a fun job, so I always kept the idea in the back of my mind. In my first job out of college, I became interested in the relationships and “people” side of the workplace. I noticed managers seemed to get more out of some people and less out of others. When I learned I could become a professor and study these types of phenomena for a living, I was motivated to do it. Long story short, I obtained my Ph.D. in management in 2014 and have been a university professor ever since.

You’ve had a remarkable career journey. Can you highlight a key decision in your career that helped you get to where you are today?

I’m not sure if there is one “flash point” that I can look back on and say, “That’s where it all started.” In truth, I think we end up where we are because of steady little decisions that occur throughout life. For me, I think I’ve been lucky enough to be continually surrounded by good people. I’ve kind of learned to take aspects from people I admire and think about how I can emulate positive qualities from others and apply it to my life. It’s important to be true to yourself, but to the extent you can learn from others and incorporate it into your own situation; I think that’s important. For example, I’ve tried to understand habits of people who I view as successful, how people I view as successful approach a project or deal with a tough situation. Or sometimes I think, “So-and-so is really good at these types of situations, what would he/she do?” I think a steady dose of “learning from others” has helped me in my career.

What’s the most impactful initiative you’ve led that you’re particularly proud of?

I’m most proud when I can help a student in their career. Whether it’s helping a student prepare for an interview or a grad school application, or helping a former student brainstorm a workplace problem they’re having, that’s the most rewarding part of my work.

How about a mistake you’ve made and the lesson you took away?

There are a couple lessons that stick out. I’ve tried to do a better job at being patient, in general. In the past, I would operate under the guise that everything had to be completed as fast as it could. I’ve learned that when I slow down, my work tends to be completed a little more thoughtfully and thoroughly as opposed to when I hustle to finish a project just for the sake of the project being finished.

Another small lesson I’ve learned is to not turn down a lunch invite. I’ve furthered important personal and professional relationships just by spending time at lunch with others. I enjoy being around people, so it’s an easy lesson for me to practice. In fact, one lunch I went to with a professor I had never met helped me spark my idea for my dissertation. I think big things often happen in little moments like that.

How has mentorship played a role in your career, whether receiving mentorship or offering it to others?

Mentorship has been very important for me. As mentioned earlier, I often try to emulate positive qualities in others and think about how I can apply it to my own life. Mentors serve as a good anchor point for me. Sometimes I’ll find myself in a situation and think, “So-and-so is really good at these types of situations, what would he/she do?” The answers to those questions come from my experience with mentors. For example, some mentors I’ve had are really good at problem-solving, so when I encounter a workplace dilemma, I’ll try to think about what that mentor would do. I’ve been lucky enough to have good mentors over the years. The general encouragement I’ve received from them has played a big role in helping me to keep going.

I also think it’s important to serve as a mentor where you can. Because I’ve received a lot from people over the years, paying it forward is important. If you can help a student or colleague, even in some small way, why wouldn’t you?

Developing your leadership style takes time and practice. Who do you model your leadership style after? What are some key character traits you try to emulate?

I think it’s important leaders be true to themselves. Most leaders lose followers because it’s usually pretty easy to tell when someone is not being authentic. Having said that, if you see something another leader does that you really identify with, it makes sense to try to incorporate that into your own situation. Most of the people I try to emulate are people I’ve encountered in life, and not necessarily in the professional realm.

For example, I worked closely with a personal trainer for years and he was excellent at breaking down an exercise into tiny, small parts. Rather than trying to teach me the full exercise all at once, each week he’d introduce a small part of an exercise for me to work on — feet placement one week, when to arch my back the next week, where my eye level should be etc. Before I knew it, working on small parts over a few months helped me eventually do the full exercise much more efficiently. The “slow build” approach seemed to really work with me. I’ve mirrored this approach with my students. I try to teach small points that slowly build on each other over time. I think this helps students really understand the important points and how the small pieces help make the larger puzzle.

I also have taken traits from some real estate agents I’ve worked with. I admire their ability to be calm while always putting out fires. It’s amazing all the things real estate agents have to deal with (e.g., emotions, finances, house issues, loan issues)! Anyone who has gone through the real estate process probably knows there are a couple fires that need to be put out along the way. The ability to remain calm, not get bogged down by the details, and see the bigger picture is something I’ve tried to apply to my work.

Of course, there are leaders within my profession I try to emulate too. But I highlight the trainer and real estate examples to demonstrate that lots of areas in life outside of work can actually help one when they’re in the workplace.

Thank you for sharing that with us. Let’s change paths a little bit. In my work, I focus on helping companies to simplify the process of creating documentation of their workflow, so I am particularly passionate about this question. Many times, a key aspect of scaling your business is scaling your team’s knowledge and internal procedures. What tools or techniques have helped your teams be successful at scaling internally?

Good question, and there are probably lots of ways to do this depending upon the business/industry. In general, I think a good data management system on employees is important. For example, collecting data on employee credentials (e.g., education, licenses), employee personality inventories, employee tenure, time-to-promotion, etc., is helpful for companies to notice trends and make evidence-based decisions. Using just the few I mentioned, a company could look to see if employees who have a certain personality profile tend to get promoted and move up the company quicker. If this is uncovered, a company could become more streamlined (and more accurate) with its hiring and promotion practices. Although the process of collecting and maintaining data may seem arduous, it can aid in evidence-based decision making, rather than “educated guesses” or “going with your gut,” and save time.

The pandemic forced many companies to adapt. Implementing remote onboarding and professional development — in addition to maintaining culture — challenged organizations. Can you share with us the challenges you have faced, with remote onboarding and hiring? How have your internal processes evolved as a result?

I’m sorry; we haven’t had many changes. We had a hiring freeze for a bit, so no processes really evolved substantially.

With the Great Resignation/Reconsideration in full swing, many job seekers are reevaluating their priorities in selecting a role and an employer. How do you think this will influence companies’ approaches to hiring, talent management, and continuous learning?

It’s a great question and one we may not be fully able to answer for years — it’s all still playing out. There have been some studies that have shown an increase in job applications that allow work from home, so work from home may be become more of a permanent expectation (in some form) for employees. Also, some research has shown that the extent organizations can remain adaptable (e.g., flexible hours, paid leave, telework) can help employees feel less disrupted by COVID. Thus, organizations that are able to remain adaptive to their employees’ lives outside of work may be able to get more out of their employees in the long run and have a better chance of hiring top talent.

Super, thank you for sharing all of that. Next, let’s turn to the main focus of our discussion about hiring the right person. As you know, hiring can be very time consuming and difficult. Can you share 5 techniques that you use to identify the talent that would be best suited for the job you want to fill? Please share an example for each idea.

1. Conduct a thorough job analysis. In short, a job analysis tells you exactly what a person in that job should be doing and what they shouldn’t be doing. It’s important companies hire based off a sound job analysis. Could you imagine hiring someone for a job if you didn’t know exactly what that person should and should not being doing? It’d be a little bit like going in blind and would be hard to match the right person to the job. A job analysis can be conducted by interviewing job incumbents and subject matter experts on exactly what tasks they perform on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. And, a job analysis describes what type of knowledge and abilities does one have to possess in order to carry out the job. Only by knowing what the person should be doing (e.g., tasks) and what they need to carry out those tasks (e.g., a specific knowledge set), can one begin searching for good job candidates.

2. Form a hiring committee. Depending upon the situation, I think it’s better to get multiple evaluations of job candidates. Sometimes, Person A will see something Person B did not. Or, Person B might put more weight on an element of the job application than Person A. Having multiple evaluations of the same job candidate is important because it allows for multiple experts to discuss and come to a consensus. When all ~4 members of the committee agree on a job candidate, the committee can probably rest a little easier knowing that they got the decision right. Even in disagreement, research shows that individuals who differ strive to reach a consensus. Through the exercise of defending viewpoints and opinions, a better consensus of the job applicant should eventually be achieved.

3. Find some type of empirical way to aid your decision. A common example of this might be finding a personality type that predicts performance in a particular job. For example, it could be that someone who is extraverted tends to perform better in a sales job. If this is true and I’m hiring for a sales position, I would want to give job applicants a short test of extraversion. If extraversion is a predictor of job performance for a sales job, then I want to examine the applicant’s levels of extraversion prior to hire. One way to find out if extraversion truly is a good predictor of job performance in a sales role is to give current employees a test of extraversion. If extraversion is a good predictor, the higher job performers should score higher on the extraversion test, in general.

4. Debrief. Sometime after the hire, or maybe once every year or two, companies should reflect on the hiring process. What is going wrong that can be fixed? More optimistically, what is going right that we can continue to lean into? Selection can be difficult. For this reason, it’s important organizations debrief somewhat regularly on what is going right in the selection process and what is going wrong. To do this, companies can interview employees and rejected applicants about the hiring process, look at turnover rates/promotion rates, and engage in panel discussions with hiring committees, to name a few.

5. Offer candidates a realistic job preview. It’s important to be honest with applicants during the process. They are “interviewing” the company too to see if the fit is right on their end. If a person ends up in a job they don’t like, they will inevitably leave, causing the company to go through the hiring process again. Or perhaps worse, the person will stay in the job but be disgruntled. Either way, a realistic job preview during the hiring process can help deter this. If the job requires travel or some weekend work, it’s important to disclose that. If the applicant asks about challenges facing the company, no need to sound the alarms but be honest about the company’s situation (to the extent you can) and what that means for employees. Realistic job previews can help increase the chances a good fit is achieved on both the company and individual’s end.

In contrast, what are a few red flags that should warn you away from hiring someone?

People who lie or mislead as part of the process is a red flag. Whether it be the resume, interview, or something else, it’s a red flag. The interview process, in theory, is when an employee is supposed to be putting their best foot forward to make a good impression. If lying or misleading is what they do when they are supposed to be at their best, what will they do after that? Even if it’s not a lie, mistakes in information mean the applicant did not have a thorough eye for detail, at best.

What software or tools do you recommend to help onboard new hires?

I think orientations with other new employees or interactions with current employees go a long way. Research shows that people like and respond well to similar others. Putting new employees together is a way to help new employees feel comfortable and forge relationships.

Because of your role, you are a person of significant influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most people, what would that be? You never know what your ideas can trigger.

Wow. What a good question. I’m sure there are lots of good movements that would and actually do a lot of good. I would say a movement that would bring about good is to inspire people to be more patient. I think patience — stopping, listening, being calm, not getting worked up easily — would help people see other people’s points of view and get along with each other better. I imagine it would also help with blood pressure levels and stress levels — things that affect our physical health, too. Yes, patience.

This was truly meaningful! Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your expertise!

About the interviewer. Ken Babcock is the CEO and Co-Founder of Tango. Prior to his mission of celebrating how work is executed, Ken spent over 4 years at Uber riding the rollercoaster of a generational company. After gaining hands-on experience with entrepreneurship at Atomic VC, Ken went on to HBS. It was at HBS that Ken met his Co-Founders, Dan Giovacchini and Brian Shultz and they founded Tango.