Brody Buhler of Escher: Five Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Became A CEO

If you are right all the time, then you are probably wrong. The whole point of a leadership team is to refine and improve upon the thinking. Being humble enough to counsel together and take a better, more correct idea rather than dogmatically defending your own is important.

As a part of our series called ‘Five Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Became A CEO’ we had the pleasure of interviewing Brody Buhler, CEO of Escher.

With more than two decades of experience, he joined the Escher team at the start of 2021. He oversees all departments at Escher and is responsible for driving the company’s growth, strategy, product, operations, and culture.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?

My first consulting project was for USPS. It was here that I realized very quickly there were some very innovative initiatives going on in the postal business — doing things at a scale and size that you just don’t see anywhere else. It was a new area to me that I found fascinating. I became intrigued by the eCommerce supply chain and have been ever since.

The post and parcel delivery industry does, and will continue to, sit at the center of the fundamental change that’s occurring around how people buy and then get the things they want. Go back ten years to what that used to look like and compare it to now — it’s radically different. There are so many examples of items you never would have considered buying online, but now it’s possible and automatic. Fast forward another ten years, and we’ll witness even greater innovations.

This industry sits at the heart of one of the most fundamental, global transformations. It turns out that was a really lucky accident 22 years ago. I found myself doing something I loved in a space that is so dynamic and fast-paced and fundamental to ecommerce.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your company?

It has been too short of a time for anything too interesting to have happened but an experience that has stuck with me is a conversation I had with a very senior executive at one of our customers who has been a friend for the past several years. He said, “Well, you’re finally going to go do”, and then talked about his move out of consulting years ago. There really is a fundamental difference between advising CEOs on what they should do and being one. I’ve described it to some as the difference between telling someone how to surf and actually being out on the board. It is harder than it looks but it is also a lot more fun.

Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

In the past, I’ve been a little overaggressive with business travel. Several years ago, I was scheduled to speak in the U.S. on a Tuesday, and in Lisbon, Portugal on Wednesday morning. I literally drove straight from the event in the U.S. to the airport, got on a plane, and flew across the ocean.

Unfortunately, when I landed, my phone didn’t turn back on. You know when you buy an iPhone, and you first turn it on, it says “hello” in about 30 languages? It was doing that, but I was in Portugal so I couldn’t get cell connection and I couldn’t get into my phone.

My assistant, like she always did, had put the itinerary details and specifics in my online calendar, which was on my non-functioning phone, so I knew nothing. I had nothing. I walked off the plane, and I’m thinking, ‘what am I going to do?’ Everything had to go perfect in order for me to be on the stage by 9 o’clock that morning. This was clearly not going perfectly.

Luckily my assistant had ordered a car for me because she knew that time was going to be tight. There was a guy standing there holding a sign with my name on it, and he asked me where I wanted to go.

I said, “I have no idea where I’m going. Take me wherever they told you to take me.”

Thankfully, he had the location and I got there just in time. I learned that day that sometimes being digital can make your life a little less convenient. I also learned how grateful I was for an assistant who thought of everything.

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?

Yes! There are so many people for whom I’m grateful. Perhaps the most influential was Brian Moran, at Accenture. He preceded me in my role and then became my boss. Brian was a very intense person who a lot of people, including me, were nervous to work for. What impressed me most as I got started was he trusted me, and gave me space to do my job. I remember an early conversation where he said something like, “I hired you to do your job. I’m not here to tell you how to do it or micromanage you. You know what you’re doing. Do it your way and call me when you need help.”

His confidence in me and willingness to let me run the business gave me ownership and confidence.

In addition, he refined everything he touched. Sometimes you get into a cadence where you’re checking in with your boss weekly and it’s just a way to inform her or him of what you’re doing. You do it because you have to, or you feel like it’s a good idea for your boss to know what you’re doing.

With Brian it was never that. He improved every idea or concept I brought him. I looked forward to our checkpoints because I always got something out of them. He taught me many of the coaching skills that I try to use with my team.

As you know, the United States is currently facing a very important self-reckoning about race, diversity, equality and inclusion. This may be obvious to you, but it will be helpful to spell this out. Can you articulate to our readers a few reasons why it is so important for a business or organization to have a diverse executive team?

Our background — culture, race, religion, gender and so much more — provides each of us with a unique perspective. You’re going to see things with a different lens and that perspective is going to have valuable information needed to make the most correct decision. Every major decision is improved by seeking counsel from others who are going to see things differently than you. That’s a rule of thumb I live by. Team leaders should aim to have as broad a spectrum as possible, to draw from those different perspectives. With a broad executive team, you can get to more real and accurate thinking, and then decision making becomes that much more effective.

As a business leader, can you please share a few steps we must take to truly create an inclusive, representative, and equitable society? Kindly share a story or example for each.

That’s a great question. One critical element of this is to actively seek to build a diverse team. If you’re not actively working at it, you may end up with a team that looks and acts and thinks like you. As people, we often tend to gravitate toward people who think, look, and act like ourselves. It’s important to be conscious about selecting and expanding.

There’s also an element of continually checking for unconscious bias. Sometimes it’s easy to say, “Yeah, I believe in diversity,” but you don’t realize that you’re unconsciously avoiding it.

For example, I remember sitting in a leadership meeting years ago and while it was relatively diverse, one of the women ended up “naturally” becoming the minute-taker. After a few meetings it struck me, “Hold on, why is that her job?” Noticing the issue, we went and fixed it. That’s an example of unconscious bias: You must make sure you’re not doing things because that’s how they’ve always been done, or make assumptions about roles that are based on a certain bias you have.

We should also consider mentorship as part of this discussion as well. If you want a diverse team, you have to mentor and foster and develop this diverse team too, and continually be active in seeking out the diversity that you want to have.

Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Most of our readers — in fact, most people — think they have a pretty good idea of what a CEO or executive does. But in just a few words can you explain what an executive does that is different from the responsibilities of the other leaders?

Accountability for outcomes. It’s hard to put a depiction on it, but there’s a fundamental difference in the feeling of being the person making the decision and being the person sitting next to the person making the decision (or advising that person). At the end of the day, when an advisor makes the wrong recommendation, the CEO is ultimately accountable.

Everybody has a role and responsibility within an organization. It’s just a little bit different when the buck stops here, and you have an entire company with employees whose careers and livelihoods are resting on you making the right decisions. There’s a weight to that, something that needs to be stewarded responsibly to get that right, because of what it means to so many people.

I think that’s the primary difference.

What are the “myths” that you would like to dispel about being a CEO or executive. Can you explain what you mean?

Perhaps the biggest myth is you don’t have a boss. Everybody has a boss. As CEO, you have a board of directors that you’re accountable to and even more importantly, customers and shareholders. A lot of people think, “when I get to the top, I’ll be able to do whatever I want.”

What is the most striking difference between your actual job and how you thought the job would be?

That’s a hard one. I think it’s very similar to what I thought the job would be.

A friend of mine, who is also a CEO, told me about an evaluation which indicates your natural inclinations. For me, I learned that anything which is customer-facing is where I get my passion, energy, and excitement. I try to have at least one customer touchpoint a day. That’s my inclination, where I draw energy.

Where I’m least inclined is to the administrative side of things — the day-to-day administrative and process tasks. They’re important, they’re just not what builds my energy. And I’m definitely more of a big-picture vision individual, vs. the in-the-details kind of person.

So, to answer your question, I’d say that’s probably been the most refreshing thing coming into Escher’s executive leadership team. I think we have a very well-rounded team and do a good job of complementing each other’s strengths. The key is to surround yourself with the people who complement your strengths and energies in that way.

Presumably not everyone is cut out to be an executive. In your opinion, which specific traits increase the likelihood that a person will be a successful executive and what type of person should avoid aspiring to be an executive? Can you explain what you mean?

One of the most important traits a CEO must have is the dedication and integrity to do what you say you’re going to do.

Another is the ability to tell it like it is. There’s no goodness in bluffing around something. Shoot straight with customers and employees. They should always know where you stand.

And the third trait is about mentorship and empowering people. Perhaps your most important job is to clap at the appropriate times. If your aspiration is to be at the center, always in the spotlight, then you probably shouldn’t be leading people. Empower your people and then get out of their way.

What advice would you give to other business leaders to help create a fantastic work culture? Can you share a story or an example?

One of the most important elements of my job is finding ways to get the best out of people, putting them in a place where they can thrive and flourish, and to encourage them to continue doing what they do well.

Also, as I just mentioned, be a straight shooter. I tell people, one of my principles is ‘positive feedback,’ and that might not mean what you think: It means ‘I’m positive that’s the feedback you need!’ Sometimes that’s includes things that are difficult to hear. But the biggest disservice we can do is see a fixable deficiency of some sort and let it go, especially if it’s one that’s going to limit someone’s ability to achieve. I’m not talking about criticism, and there is certainly goodness that comes from varied strengths. What I’m talking about is having the courage and compassion to tell someone how to improve in ways that will allow them to achieve their aspirations.

How have you used your success to make the world a better place?

Now that’s a bold ambition! One important area is serving others. Whether that is finding ways to serve the people I work with or serving within the community, I firmly believe in the principle of giving back. Giving back is more than just donations to a cause. It is about giving of your time and talent to help others.

My wife is much better at this than I am, so I tend to follow her lead. For example, years ago she heard about a need in our son’s elementary school for weekend meals for some of the children. These were kids who were provided lunch by the school but on the weekend may go without a meal or two because of their family situation.

When she heard about this, she felt strongly that something should be done so she organized a “snack pack” program that would be handed out on Friday mornings to give these kids meals for the weekend. At first it was primarily our family, neighborhood friends and our congregation donating and packing the meals. Now it has grown to include several organizations. Nearly every school Friday for more than ten years, my wife has been at the school handing out these packs, occasionally with me at her side. That is one simple way we have sought to use our success to make the world just a little bit better.

Fantastic. Here is the primary question of our interview. What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started” and why? (Please share a story or example for each.)

1. If you are right all the time, then you are probably wrong. The whole point of a leadership team is to refine and improve upon the thinking. Being humble enough to counsel together and take a better, more correct idea rather than dogmatically defending your own is important. Just recently I laid out an approach with a challenging client that sounded like a great idea to me. Our Chief Revenue Officer offered a competing perspective that significantly altered my approach and clearly for the better. He was right and it worked, and I was grateful he told me I got it wrong.
2. Be an agent who acts, not someone who is acted upon. So often we look for excuses rather than taking accountability. It reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with my manager where I was complaining about our brand position in the market. He asked a simple question, “what have you done to change that?” When he saw the look on my face, he said something that has always stuck with me. “You can complain, or you can work. Don’t be the victim, be the agent for change”.
3. Be a coach who holds practices vs. tryouts. This is a paradigm change I preach to my teams. I want to be a leader who improves people, who is willing to roll up his sleeves and work side-by-side with the team, and who will make them better for the interaction. I’ve worked for both types of coaches, and too often we run these interactions like a tryout where the team feels it has to be perfect before you see it or you’ll think less of them. I want to create a culture where these sessions feel more like practice than a tryout.
4. Know the difference between being busy and productive. This one is obvious, but sometimes gets lost in the day-to-day. I remember speaking to the CEO of one of our business lines once who was known as “lazy,” but who had achieved remarkable success. He gave me some advice I still use — time is your scarcest resource so spend it where it matters.
5. Follow-up. This is so simple and yet so powerful. I remember one client who was the master of this. She kept a list of everything she asked anyone to do and when they said they would get it done. She wouldn’t micromanage but did expect you would come back with the task completed. Because her employees knew she would hold them accountable, they were careful in commitments and even more careful in completion.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.

Let’s get back to dialogue and civil discourse. There are too many who refuse to listen and instead spew an ideology. They love living in an echo chamber, hearing and talking to only those who think like they do, while working hard to silence “the other side”. There is nothing productive there and it only leads to conflict. We don’t all have to agree, but we can do a lot more to understand each other.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“Remember there are many people who think they want to be matadors, only to find themselves in the ring with 2,000 pounds of bull bearing down on them, and then discover that what they really wanted was to wear tight pants and hear the crowd roar.” — Terry Pearce

We see so little of the hard work that goes into any accomplishment. The hours and years of practice, the many sacrifices of nights and weekends and other things we would rather be doing. If you aspire to be something great, be ready and willing to put in the work. Choose to do the hard things. If your desire to be CEO is to be in the spotlight and live the glamorous life, you might be in the wrong place!

We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them

Russel M. Nelson, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for his insight and wisdom.

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.