C-Suite Perspectives On AI: Roger Hurni of Off Madison Ave and LighthousePE On Where to Use AI and Where to Rely Only on Humans
An Interview With Kieran Powell
Use AI for topic research. This is one area where AI can excel. I’ve written a book and a lot of blogs and articles. No matter what I’m writing about, I can’t possibly think of every area to cover. So, once I determine the topic and write out several things I think I want to cover, I will work with an AI to extend that list. Often providing me with explanations of what each of those additional opportunities is. This allows me to craft a higher-quality outline in which to start writing.
As artificial intelligence (AI) continues to advance and integrate into various aspects of business, decision-makers at the highest levels face the complex task of determining where AI can be most effectively utilized and where the human touch remains irreplaceable. This series seeks to explore the nuanced decisions made by C-Suite executives regarding the implementation of AI in their operations. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Roger Hurni.
Roger Hurni is an innovative entrepreneur, highly regarded behavior strategist, and renowned branding expert who has significantly impacted the field of marketing and communication over a distinguished career.
As the founder of Off Madison Ave and LighthousePE, Roger has established a unique niche for himself, providing a distinct perspective on organizational challenges and opportunities. Roger’s work in behavioral marketing has enabled him to achieve outstanding results for his clients by deciphering human behavior and transforming insights into actionable strategies.
Roger’s career includes collaborations with iconic brands such as ABC Network, Nike, Doubletree Hotels, Starwood Hotels, P.F. Chang’s, PetSmart, Safeway, Wells Fargo, and WD-40.
Acknowledged for his exceptional contributions to the industry, Roger has received numerous prestigious awards, including honors from The Clio’s, Cannes Lions, ADDYs, Radio Mercury Awards, and New York Festivals. He has been recognized as Interactive Marketing Person of the Year twice, Ad Person of the Year, and as a finalist for the Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year.
Currently, Roger is a member of the esteemed Walter Cronkite Endowment Board. Additionally, he contributes his expertise on a global scale by serving on the board of the Worldcom Public Relations Group, where he previously held the prestigious position of Global Chair.
Roger’s first book, “Outthink. Outperform. Transform Your Organization Through Behavior Marketing,” was released in 2024.
Thank you so much for your time! I know that you are a very busy person. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your backstory and how you got started?
At the ripe old age of 19, I started my agency career on two unknown, incredibly small businesses: Doubletree Hotels and PetSmart. Fortunately, I was on the marketing team that helped turn them into national companies. After 7 1/2 years, I was pulled away by McCann Erickson, San Francisco, where I started to work on multi-international brands.
It has been said that our mistakes can be our greatest teachers. Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Early on in my career, I had the opportunity to work with a nationally known illustrator. I made the mistake of telling the illustrator what I wanted. It turns out that artists don’t want you to tell them what you want, especially when you’re green. They want to interpret what you tell them and give you what they think is best. The big lesson I learned is that if you’re going to hire amazing people, set a direction and get out of their way. They will add to your idea at every stage.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
My most exciting project right now is marketing my book, which was released in June. It’s called Outthink. Outperform. Transform your organization through Behavioral Marketing. Unlike books that teach you about leadership, operational systems, or emotional intelligence, my book teaches you how to think behaviorally. Many small-to-medium-sized businesses don’t have access to people with my experience, so the book provides an opportunity to profoundly help businesses shift customer behavior so they can meet and exceed their objectives.
Thank you for that. Let’s now shift to the central focus of our discussion. In your experience, what have been the most challenging aspects of integrating AI into your business operations, and how have you balanced these with the need to preserve human-centric roles?
One of the more challenging aspects of integrating AI into any business operation is the lack of understanding of what AI actually is. AI is not really Artificial Intelligence. It is not sui generis, nor is it a sentient entity.
As we currently know it, AI is a simulation of human intelligence. It does that by finding correlations in seemingly unrelated data. Then, it uses those correlations to interpret existing information in a new way. This is why I reframe AI as Artificial Interpretation. It makes it easier for people to understand and work with it. This reframing of AI helps preserve human-centric roles by not thinking of AI as a replacement but rather as a tool to help people perform work at a higher level.
Can you share a specific instance where AI initially seemed like the optimal solution but ultimately proved less effective than human intervention? What did this experience teach you about the limitations of AI in your field?
I see brands all the time use AI for expediency. It seems like a good idea: Put your target demographic information into an AI and have it spit out a brand story for your website. Let’s put aside the fact that the quality of that writing is generic at best. AI is limited by what has been written about that demographic before. Performing work with an AI in this manner means that you are not tapping into the motivations of your customers or the relevancy of your brand to them and what it means. I’ve heard it put this way before: People don’t want to buy a drill; they need a hole.
AI might be very good at telling you all the great things about a drill, but it’s not so good at understanding the emotional component of what having a hole will do for a customer.
How do you navigate the ethical implications of implementing AI in your company, especially concerning potential job displacement and ensuring ethical AI usage?
Every great piece of technology has been met with skepticism and fear. Look at the Gutenberg Press. It put Scribes out of business, but it also made knowledge available to the world like never before. Certainly, AI today will have its share of job displacement. If nothing else, simply by the ability for someone to be extremely more efficient.
That doesn’t mean we can’t work with AI ethically. This means putting down some ground rules. There’s no plagiarism, no using trade secrets with AI, and no using an AI’s output directly for publication. AI is simply used as a tool to enhance human proficiency and quality.
Could you describe a successful instance in your company where AI and human skills were synergistically combined to achieve a result that neither could have accomplished alone?
When a human-centered approach is paired with an AI, wonderful things can happen. For instance, my company, Lighthouse PE, takes a human-behavior approach with its AI when communicating with its clients’ app users. Meaning that behavior analysis occurs first by humans. By understanding an app user’s motivations, messaging can be creative to make it easier for that customer to take action. The AI can analyze those implicit and explicit behaviors performed. Then it can determine which message and at what time and place that communication should be delivered. The combination is powerful, and it is hyper-personalized to the customer.
Based on your experience and success, what are the “5 Things To Keep in Mind When Deciding Where to Use AI and Where to Rely Only on Humans, and Why?” How have these 5 things impacted your work or your career?
1. Use AI for topic research. This is one area where AI can excel. I’ve written a book and a lot of blogs and articles. No matter what I’m writing about, I can’t possibly think of every area to cover. So, once I determine the topic and write out several things I think I want to cover, I will work with an AI to extend that list. Often providing me with explanations of what each of those additional opportunities is. This allows me to craft a higher-quality outline in which to start writing.
2. Understanding and analyzing consumer motivations. This is one area where I rely strictly on human expertise. The emotions behind individual motivations require the experience and subtlety of human analysis. For example, when I’m working with a client to launch a new product or determine why a product simply isn’t selling, it’s critical for me to analyze not just the research at hand but the emotional component of the target audience’s motivations behind product adoption. This type of analysis creates an easier path for the consumer to gain a greater understanding of a product’s value.
3. Consumer listening. AI is tremendously helpful in listening to what consumers say and do. The amount of consumer data available to marketers is numbing. It is impossible for a person to review that amount of data and find correlations that could impact future efforts. A great example of this is the AI behind my company, Lighthouse PE. The AI can examine both the implicit and explicit behaviors of an individual customer and then determine what should happen next. It would be impossible for anyone to work in real time to deliver the right customer engagement.
4. Marketing personalization. Nearly all brands consider personalization as including somebody’s name or the product they may have purchased. True personalization comes from understanding the needs of the customer. An AI can come through all the possible marketing messages that are relevant to an individual and then select and create the message that is most relevant to the individual and deliver it. The impact for marketers is the ability to move beyond consumer segments or even ad hoc groups of customers. No matter what the communication channel, AI has the ability to deliver one-to-one messaging at scale.
5. Predictive analysis. Because AI can process vast amounts of data, it can find unique correlations in that data, providing a peek into future possibilities. This can impact AB testing messages for marketing or positions a brand might want to explore. Again, I do think it’s critical for humans to analyze the outcomes an AI displays. It won’t always be correct, and it doesn’t always account for small variables that could have a big impact.
Looking towards the future, in which areas of your business do you foresee AI making the most significant impact, and conversely, in which areas do you believe a human touch will remain indispensable?
The greatest impact AI can have in my business is helping remove consumers from irrelevant information and communication. People are already inundated with tens of thousands of messages a day. They don’t need another one that’s not meaningful. AI has the ability to hyper-personalize the marketing industry. That said, the need to use a human approach with an understanding of behavior and customer motivation is imperative.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)
Having a background in behavior science, I have to remind people that you can never manipulate someone’s behavior. So for any business or any person, for that matter, the movement I would start would focus on helping people do what they already want to do.
To put it in another way, people find it difficult to change behavior. If we can help people make it easier to perform a behavior, I’m certain great things will happen.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
To follow my work, you can visit my website, rogerhurni.com, or find me on social media using @rogerhurni.
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
