Caroline Goyder Of Central School of Speech and Drama On The 5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker
An Interview With Doug Noll
Stand up for all your online meetings. Honestly, it will make you feel a million times better. I have a ‘riser’ desk that you can alter the height of, and it’s a total game changer. You instantly feel more confident, happier, and less stressed. I was working with Army officers in lockdown and they told me they always stand up for meetings, I tried it and was a convert. As instructed, I rest my laptop on a pile of books and suddenly, I’m standing tall and feeling calmer.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Caroline Goyder.
Caroline Goyder is an expert in performance at Central School of Speech and Drama in London. She also coaches business people, politicians and broadcasters and even helps Big Issue vendors hone their sales tactics. Her work has featured on the BBC, Channel 4 and ITV and in the newspapers. … Google Books
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us about your background and how you ended up as a speaking expert? Can you share a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
I’m the classic teacher who teaches what she needed! I was bad at public speaking, learned the hard way how to do it and now teach everyone else the steps I worked out.
I started off loving words — I studied English Literature at university. I thought a love of words would be enough to help me at drama school when I got a place there. But they said you’re in your head, you have no presence etc. etc. and then after being downcast and stuck I got determined and worked out how to get unstuck and find my presence and my power as a speaker. Once I’d worked out that system I started to teach it.
I began to get interested in voice, applied to Central School Of Speech And Drama to their Voice course then ended up teaching there for ten years before venturing more into the corporate world and authoring three bestselling books.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
I was living in Brixton, and I spotted that they were doing a Brixton Tedx. So, I wrote to them and offered to be a speaker coach. I loved Stephanie Busari who organized it. I coached for a couple of years. Then they asked me to do a talk. I said yes.
I was terrified but I knew a great prop would bring the talk to life. I had this idea about talking about “drawers in the self” as a way of expressing that we have so much potential.
So I googled “chest of drawers human body” and this incredible prop came up, a chest of drawers like a man’s chest. It was perfect. When I looked at where the maker George lived it was minutes away from where I lived. It all came together.
When I stood up on stage I had no idea nearly 11 million people would have watched it ten years on. I was just excited to share my ideas and that fab prop George had made. It turns out it changed my life
And what a jeopardy for a speaker coach… My coach Denise Graveline said You cannot f*** this up Carolne. She was right so I worked really hard to get it right.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that? ????
In the TEDx there was a massive air conditioning wind tunnel effect at the beginning — I looked like I was in a Beyonce video without her glam. Luckily someone ran to turn it off. While they were doing that, I named the impact it was having on me in the talk. It got a laugh and people liked the honesty _ I learned it’s good to bring everything in as a speaker
None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Jonny Geller is the literary agent who said yes to my first book — that changed my life in an instant and led to three books and counting. And my mum and dad of course!
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Jonny G has the mantra that you have to get past the nos to get to the yes “they’re wrong, move on” . If someone doesn’t get you, don’t take it personally — keep going until you find the people who do.
When you think like that, failure is just feedback, it allows you to improve. I interviewed A list actors for my first book, and they taught me that you also get to choose whose feedback to listen to — it often tells you more about them. If you feel you’ve failed and the feedback is harsh, you get to choose if you let it in or not.
And in the end if you show up and keep going and focus on the people you love and who love you, you move forward.
What drives you to get up every day and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
I’m a quiet person and we often get the message that the world belongs to the loud ones, I simply don’t believe that when I learned the skills I teach I thought why did no one teach me this before? and that’s why I love sharing these skills with others — they changed my life.
It’s important to be able to express the things that matter to us. If you feel you can’t speak up, that you’re not heard, that’s an unhealthy and an unhappy state. Anyone can speak in public with confidence, it’s within everyone.
Happiness lies in being able to speak your truth. Express what you’re feeling, honestly, and with power. That’s what people we admire are doing. It takes courage. But life is really quite short, isn’t it? If we’re grounded and present, if we can self-regulate our nervous system and really speak about what matters to us and help others, then that’s a good use of a life.
What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
I have a new sister course to my first online course Master Your Meetings coming out soon Master Your Speaking. Plus a short course based on my bestselling book Gravitas, which is totally free and gives you everything you need to know about gravitas https://courses.carolinegoyder.com/GravitasCourse?r_done=1
Gravitas is speaking with confidence, influence and authority. When you have gravitas, you sound calm, confident and in control. Gravitas is being the pilot of the plane, telling the passengers: ‘I’ve got this, you’re safe with me.’
When you sound like the pilot of the plane, it is incredible how quickly others put their trust in you, and how quickly your life changes as a result. It’s a very good skill to develop
Speakers with gravitas are those who are tuned into their audience — they have empathy. In martial arts, they talk about ‘self-forgetfulness.’ It’s not about you. Your internal dialogue may moan inside your head, saying, ‘Oh my God, they’re looking at me, did I say that right? Am I wearing the right thing? Is this going to be okay?’ I’m excited to share this free course with everyone so they can find their own gravitas.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
It’s not about being the loudest person in the room or speaking all the time. I had a Northumberland Quaker granny, and the Quakers believe you should only speak if you improve the silence.
What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
1 . Stand up for all your online meetings. Honestly, it will make you feel a million times better. I have a ‘riser’ desk that you can alter the height of, and it’s a total game changer. You instantly feel more confident, happier, and less stressed. I was working with Army officers in lockdown and they told me they always stand up for meetings, I tried it and was a convert. As instructed, I rest my laptop on a pile of books and suddenly, I’m standing tall and feeling calmer.
2 . Put your attention on truly connecting with others. If you need to connect with a human being whether, that is a big presentation, an important meeting, a child who’s upset, or a friend who needs your advice, just switch off your phone or put it on airplane mode. Come back to your body. Notice your feet are on the floor, the air is on your face, feel your clothes against your skin. And make that connection with that other human being without the interruption of your phone. You will have a much better connection with the person in front of you. Connect, be there, listen.
The more you connect with others, the better your life will be. You are not going to get to the end of your life and say: ‘I wished I’d check more stuff on WhatsApp.’
3 . Stop writing down a speech and trying to learn it. Just create bullet points or a mind map with a central image that summarizes the talk, and then radiate out five or six key sections out from that central image. Then record yourself speaking from the heart, using your bullet points or mind map as a prompt.
Listen to the recording and start to notice what works — is it clear? Do the sections flow together? Then think about it from the perspective of the audience. If you didn’t know very much about this subject, is there anything missing? What do you need to add?
A lot of people are too focused on their performance, but what the audience wants is clarity, good content, something that’s useful.
4 . Gravitas is speaking with confidence, influence and authority. When you have gravitas, you sound calm, confident and in control. Gravitas is being the pilot of the plane, telling the passengers: ‘I’ve got this, you’re safe with me.’
When you sound like the pilot of the plane, it is incredible how quickly others put their trust in you, and how quickly your life changes as a result. It’s a very good skill to develop. And we all have it within when we take time to ground ourselves — its connected to gravity. How? Before your speech, get into a calm, quiet space. If you were an actor in the West End of London, you’d have 35 minutes before the show starts where you sit quietly. This resets your nervous system. Rather than rushing around trying to find your costume or trying to learn your lines, you get ready for take-off.
It’s the same drill for you. If you’re about to do a presentation, find a place to sit quietly beforehand and tell yourself: ‘I am safe. I’m present, this is okay.’ So that when you walk out on stage and you are hit by that jolt of adrenaline, it won’t knock you off your game. Instead the spike will result in peak performance.
5 . How often do you unplug before the moments that matter? If the answer is rarely or never, then you can learn a lesson from the theatrical world. Take a half. The half is the 35 minutes of focused energy before the show starts. There is a wonderful set of photos by the photographer Simon Annand showing actors in the half. What you will notice is that it looks like they are doing nothing — they are staring into space, standing still or lying on the floor. But a lot is going on internally. They are finding a calm within that will allow them to stay centred and confident. Sometimes, they are doing gentle breathing or voice and body exercises. The half made such a difference to how I felt when I showed up before a talk that I got a little addicted to it. I realised if I got myself calm and centred before a meeting, I would find that the whole experience was so much easier. I didn’t need to over think things. I was present, intuitive. I knew when to speak, when to zip it, when to listen. The half always seemed to put me on my A game.
The secret to the half and for it to really work is to diarise it (literally put it in your diary or schedule) and commit to it — a meeting with yourself. It is as important as the meeting/interview/presentation that follows it. If you do this one thing, I guarantee that you will start to speak with more calm and confidence.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you offer advice about how to overcome this fear?
Rather than focus on yourself, ask, ‘How can I help my audience?’ If you are nervous, try the FOFBOC exercise (feet on floor, bum on chair) take a couple of minutes to calmly focus on feeling your feet on the floor and your bottom on the chair. As you tune into the physical sensations of your body making contact with the chair and floor, you draw your attention away from the thoughts in your head and become more present in your body. When you are really present to your body, people notice your presence.
We need to take ownership of our own nervous system. When we show up, centered, self-regulated, we’re able to feel strong, balanced and grounded. When you look at women like Brené Brown and Michelle Obama, they are probably disciplined about doing something every day that resets their nervous system.
When your voice shakes, you are getting an overdose of adrenaline. The simplest thing you can do is breathe. Breathe in for four, breathe out for six. Breathe in for four, breathe out for eight. Breathe in for four, breathe out for 10. This exercise will slow your heart rate and take your system from fight or flight to feeling safe.
Investigate the availability of a public speaking course run by someone who really knows what they are talking about. Like me, haha!
If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
The get off your phone movement and be here now (I need this movement too). The more you connect with others, the better your life will be. You are not going to get to the end of your life and say: ‘I wished I’d check more stuff on WhatsApp.’
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why?
Sadly, she’s no longer with us but Cicely Berry would be my ultimate lunch date. Cicely was head of voice at the RSC and really, she was the one that really changed the way the world looked at voice and text. She was a complete goddess and her books Voice and the Actor and Voice and the Text are still every actor’s bible.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Free Gravitas course https://courses.carolinegoyder.com/GravitasCourse?r_done=1
Caroline Goyder (@carolinegoyder) • Instagram photos and videos
Caroline Goyder (@CarolineGoyder) / X
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
