Charles Schwalbe of Northern Exposure Spain On How To Create A Travel Experience That Keeps People Coming Back For More
An Interview With Savio P. Clemente
Be ready to adapt to unforeseen changes. Things happen and you need to be ready. In my particular area, the weather can be very unreliable due to the oceanic and mountain influenced climate. It is imperative to adapt to sudden changes with a backup plan. Sometimes it is impossible, but you must try your best to accommodate the unexpected. Knowing your area well is critical. Understanding your clients is once again important. Both of those things enable you to come up with an alternate plan that fits their profile. Sometimes that may even on the fly, to turn an otherwise thwarted plan into a spectacular one. Be prepared, as the boy scouts say.
As part of my series about “How To Create A Travel Experience That Keeps People Coming Back For More”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Charles Schwalbe.
Charles Schwalbe is Chief Experience Officer (CXO) and owner of Northern Exposure Spain, a specialty tour operator providing custom private, small group tours in Northern Spain. Charles is a native of Cantabria in Northern Spain, but also American, and has lived, worked and traveled extensively around the world. He has been designing and carrying out unique experiences for his clients successfully for over a decade.
Thank you so much for joining us! Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
Sure, it was not a simple path, but the right one. I had a successful career in finance in the U.S., but it was unfulfilling personally. I was also torn between two worlds, having been raised and educated between the U.S. and Spain (Libya as well, but that is for another story). I came to the realization that I wanted to be in Spain, for personal reasons, but also as a lifestyle choice. I was unmarried and had no children; it was now or possibly never. I gave up my finance career and moved my life to Spain. I spent some time traveling extensively including Africa, the Americas, Asia, and Europe. I had a stint as a bilingual elementary school teacher, something I had always contemplated, and was later involved in several Spanish-Indian business startups. Neither of those paths proved viable for me, the former due to the sheer exhaustion and the latter for the bureaucratic and ethical nightmares. My search for personal fulfillment continued. One evening, discussing what to do next over a glass of wine with a dear friend, she pointed out something obvious to her, but that I had overlooked. When my American friends came to Spain to visit, I always showed them a wonderful time. I ensured they had memorable experiences by sharing the things I loved most about “my” Spain with them. “You should do that,” my friend suggested. “Do what?” — I responded. I had my doubts about making a business out of something that was so enjoyable and second nature to me. Her reply challenged me, “You will never know if you don’t try.” I love a challenge. After a decade of “trying”, I can confidently say that I have found my path to a very fulfilling career in travel.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career?
In my case, it is something that has continued over the years. I have a long term client that has now done 10 tours with me. At first she was like any client and engaged me to design a specialized custom tour. The initial tour was a success and she became a repeat client. Over the years, she has become more than just a client, also a friend. We have shared so many wonderful experiences on our tours together that we both chalk a lot of it up to a bit of magic. Our tours enter the “magic zone” often as she refers to it. At this point, it is traveling with a long time friend. I design a very basic plan for our tours now, with the majority of the time devoted to exploring new places and experiences, something I did more of in the off season prior to having my own family. It has become somewhat strange to have her as a paying client, when I get so much out of our tours together as well. She has seen my own family grow, as I have hers, including her journey to becoming a grandmother. We are both already looking forward to our next tour together.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I had a tour for a couple early on. All of the communications with the client led me to believe they were two women that were a couple. They had indicated they only needed one hotel room. Upon a late evening arrival to their next hotel, the room only had one queen sized bed, and there was not another option available. At this point I discovered that they were a couple of women, and not two women that were a couple. It was awkward for everyone, but they were more than understanding and actually shared a bed for two nights. This was a glaring oversight on my part, and one that taught me that you can never get too much information about your clients.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?
I am very grateful for my dear friend Virginia. She is the one who helped me jump off on this adventure that has become the most enjoyable thing I have ever done career wise. I previously shared how she got me here. Her initial and continued encouragement, coupled with her resolute positive attitude are the reasons I have gotten to this most enjoyable place in my career and life.
Thank you for that. Let’s jump to the core of our discussion. Can you share with our readers about the innovations that you are bringing to the travel and hospitality industries?
I make an effort to get to know my clients as well as possible prior to a tour. I do this through clear communications throughout to ensure we are on the same page and that they will be best served by what I offer. We address general items regarding their preferences for basics like transportation, lodging, meals and any health/mobility/dietary concerns that might affect what we do on a tour. More importantly, I inquire about their past travel and specific interests to understand what their perfect travel experience might look like. Using a proprietary questionnaire built around a menu of options for their tour, I am able to design a tour crafted specifically around them. Being in tune with client specific needs or wants is something everyone should strive for, to the degree that is possible in your own particular niche.
Which “pain point” are you trying to address by introducing this innovation and how do you envision that this might disrupt the status quo?
The headaches of planning a bespoke trip on your own have increased over time. The internet has created access to information of all types and quality, leaving would be travelers with an overabundance of choices with regards to just about everything. There is a lot of misinformation in general, much of it promulgated by one time visitors to an area, be it travelers or content creators. They often miss the mark. There is no substitute for local knowledge and personal vetting of what are truly the best experiences in a particular area and the best way to go about them. Many travelers trust the third party opinions of other travelers on travel ratings sites. In most cases, due to the nature of travel itself, travelers themselves may generally visit the best known places on a trip but miss the overwhelming majority of others. Travelers only have so much time for their own experiences. Entrusting your travel planning someone that is in the area year round, night and day, can make all the difference. I have been successful in convincing more and more travelers of this, and many vow to not travel any other way after experiencing it on one of my tours. I often get requests from clients for someone like me in another country they want to travel to.
As you know, COVID19 changed the world as we know it. Can you share a few examples of how travel and hospitality companies will be adjusting over the next five years to the new ways that consumers will prefer to travel?
Restrictions on social distancing and venue capacities have made travelers appreciate places with less crowds, more space and less “noise”. Many travelers that have experienced this now seek it specifically. Many prefer not to return to the pre-pandemic environments that put too much touristic pressure on certain places. They prefer to combine the inevitable touristic must sees with more off the beaten path and harder to get to areas. Many of these require local knowledge and investment of additional travel time, but in my experience, discerning travelers appreciate the value of these unique experiences.
You are a “travel insider”. How would you describe your “perfect vacation experience”?
My perfect travel experience gets me close to the place and the people of the destination. In my own experience, that involves exploring a variety of landscapes, including urban, rural and natural. The people in each of these areas can be quite different even within the same region/country. Very generally, the urban areas expose you to the modern aspects of a place and where it is going, while the rural areas reflect the more traditional ones and where it came from. Getting out into nature to experience the wilder areas helps me relate the land to the culture of a place, which I find to be intertwined. Understanding the history, even the prehistory, of a place is important to me. It is essential to know how each has influenced particular culture(s) via historic sites, arts and traditions. Food and drink also play a key role in understanding a destination and its people in my opinion. In my own travels, particularly in more off beat destinations, such as Ethiopia or Armenia for instance, I have sought out local travel companies and guides that can design the perfect travel experience for me. Money well spent on invaluable knowledge that is tough to glean elsewhere without an awful lot of legwork.
Travel is not always about escaping, but about connecting. Have you made efforts to cultivate a more wellness driven experience? We’d love to hear about it.
I have, in a cultural way. I find that many of my clients are reticent to adjust to Spanish daily schedules, which differ from where most of my clients come from. Meal times and portions can be particularly disconcerting. I encourage clients to adhere to a Spanish schedule to help them connect to what is such an important aspect of our culture. Taking the time to enjoy longer, slow meals midday is something I try to cultivate, even if out of many clients’ comfort zone. Many are reticent as it is a change from their norm, yet others perceive it as a waste of time. The overwhelming majority of clients come to the realization that taking the time to have a genuine, traditional meal, enjoyed at slow pace midday is a great way to break up a busy travel day and enjoy some deserved downtime during the day. They notice that Spaniards are doing the same around them and that they are immersed in this part of our culture. I manage to persuade most to eat this way and to have a lighter evening meal, which is usually their biggest meal at home. Many are appreciative of how much better they rest on a Spanish schedule. Sounds like wellness to me!
Ok super. Here is the main question of our interview. Based on your experience and success, what are the five most important things one should know in order to create a travel experience that keeps bringing people back for more? Please share a story or an example for each.
- Get to know your client. Understanding who your client is makes all the difference. I try to learn as much as I can about my clients prior to a tour to engage who they are. It has worked very well for me. By the end of a longer tour, and certainly with my clients that are on their second, third or even tenth tour, the flow and ease of how we travel together is apparent. I attribute that to knowing them a little better as time goes on. It becomes second nature almost, but the catalyst for that is to know them well initially.
- Prioritize their interests. Not everyone likes everything and some people have peculiar interests or preferences. In many cases, the most popular sites or experiences are not what clients are looking for. I had a client that I created a specialized tour for that involved prehistoric cave paintings and birding, a unique combination. We had a great tour together but missed seeing a bird that he was very interested in, the wallcreeper. Several years later, I saw the bird in question and emailed him a photo to let him know. He responded that he could be back with me in two days time, coming from California to Spain! I convinced him not to come, but this shows how important certain things can be to some people. Making those things a priority should be front and center.
- Share personal ties to places. I find that sharing your own personal stories linking you to a place help clients to value it more. They understand your ties and experiences to a location at a personal level. As an example, I often take clients to a particular mountain area in Northern Spain. I relate how I have spent much time there over my life and that it is one of my favorite places in the world. Most clients know I am very well traveled and that is a bold statement, even if I have personal bias. With clients I feel well connected to, I share that my father’s ashes are scattered on the highest mountain in the area. This is very personal, but I find it helps clients value the importance of the place to me in particular, but also feeds their individual appreciation beyond the sheer natural beauty of it.
- Be generous with your time. This can be a tough one depending on your own personal situation. I have found that enjoying the experiences I provide for my clients together with them is important, even if it can mean a longer day. Sometimes that means extending a day a bit because the ideal set of circumstances occur (a magical sunset opportunity for example). I am aware that some travelers may never have the opportunity to return or that even if they do, the circumstances may not be so ideal. Take the extra time to enjoy things that occur only occasionally and that many times are unforeseen. It is always appreciated. To the client it may seem the norm because it is their only experience with it, but as the provider, it is up to you to discern when things are out of the ordinary. Share your extra time for that special magic. Other times it may be as mundane as helping a client go shopping for clothes because their luggage was lost. Clients appreciate the value of your time and sharing as much as is needed goes a long way in bringing them back.
- Be ready to adapt to unforeseen changes. Things happen and you need to be ready. In my particular area, the weather can be very unreliable due to the oceanic and mountain influenced climate. It is imperative to adapt to sudden changes with a backup plan. Sometimes it is impossible, but you must try your best to accommodate the unexpected. Knowing your area well is critical. Understanding your clients is once again important. Both of those things enable you to come up with an alternate plan that fits their profile. Sometimes that may even on the fly, to turn an otherwise thwarted plan into a spectacular one. Be prepared, as the boy scouts say.
Can you share with our readers how you have used your success to bring goodness to the world?
I try to share a vision of the world with my clients where politics and religion are secondary. We may learn certain aspects of both on a tour, but I make an effort to contrast them with others. Through my own travels, I have experienced a very wide variety of both. My own Roman Catholic, western world upbringing is but one lens on the world. Realizing that your own existence and views are not the only ones is critical to learning to relate to other people and places. Not everyone thinks the same and not everyone agrees. It need not be better or worse, it is simply different. Thinking about why that is, helps us be more understanding and respectful of other cultures, something we could all use more of these days. Call me utopian but can’t we all learn to respect our differences and help others try to understand our own amicably, without pushing it on anyone?
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)
As I have mentioned earlier, “getting along” is one of our biggest problems in the world. We could all, western, eastern, southern and northern, learn how to do this a little bit better. I am a lifelong learner and feel it is paramount for everyone to keep learning throughout their lives. I would urge everyone to learn as much as they can about other cultures, through travel or virtually. Take your own assessment of the things you find interesting and that could potentially help us all get along. Change your own views if you feel compelled to do so. If I had to start a movement that could help others engage in this, it could be: GLOW (Get Learning Our World) to Grow. The majority of the world is now connected to the internet in some form or fashion. This movement could be worldwide and encompass a very large amount of people. Arguably, the ones that need to grow the most are in the most developed countries. Begin with a list of the countries of the world and a good, detailed map in black and white. Take five to ten minutes out of your week or as often as you can to pick a new random country on the list, preferably one you know nothing about. Learn the basics about it, via Wikipedia or elsewhere, and locate it on your map. Create your own list of learned countries, numbering them starting at 1. Keep track of your learning, label and color in each country on your map as you learn each, preferably in bright colors so it glows. Discuss what you have learned with others the next time you have an occasion to do so by using it as a conversation piece. It reinforces your own learning and could help inspire others to do the same. The more we know about each other, the more we can learn to respect each other. Let it GLOW to Grow! I am inspired by this and will be doing this with my own family.
How can our readers follow you on social media?
Instagram: NExSpain
Facebook: NExSpain
Twitter: @NExSpain
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
