Daniel Hawes Of Givex: How AI Is Disrupting Our Industry, and What We Can Do About It
An Interview With Cynthia Corsetti
Lean in. Understand the opportunities that are in front of you, both operationally and from a product customer perspective. Look seriously at those opportunities because, if you don’t, it becomes easy to get lost and disrupted by the technology.
Artificial Intelligence is no longer the future; it is the present. It’s reshaping landscapes, altering industries, and transforming the way we live and work. With its rapid advancement, AI is causing disruption — for better or worse — in every field imaginable. While it promises efficiency and growth, it also brings challenges and uncertainties that professionals and businesses must navigate. What can one do to pivot if AI is disrupting their industry? As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Daniel Hawes.
Hawes is a multifaceted professional engaged in writing, producing, academic research and technology entrepreneurship. He is the vice president of product design for Givex and his portfolio includes the creation and production of twelve TV series, nine films and over fifty games, alongside pioneering work in AI and VR applications. As an adjunct research professor at Carleton University, he focuses on immersive learning experiences to foster perspective change and reduce racial barriers. He also teaches game design and digital storytelling at Toronto Metropolitan University and Carleton University. Hawes is the CEO and founder of Just Virtual, a tech studio specializing in AI, VR and Metaverse applications, and has authored “The Billion Dollar Metaverse Challenge,” with two more books slated for 2024.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive into our discussion our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?
Most of my life, I’ve been involved with technology, computer science and related technology applications and a little bit of creative. We apply a lot of the technology in the creative industries — in gaming and TV. Now, one of the things that brought us into the Givex fold in the restaurant industry was that we were looking to do something to enhance the tabletop experience by adding some entertainment. That was one of the things that dragged us into the industry. Then we started to realize, “Wow, there are a lot of ways to make it a better experience.”
We got really involved in designing new experiences with AI. Even before AI, we did a lot of design of online ordering systems and kiosks and things that were making the customer experience a bit more friendly.
Academically, I do a few things — most of it is related to virtual reality and some areas of AI. We were interested in the food services area because it was one the heavily affected industries from COVID.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
Everything we do is about creating a great customer experience. It’s all about making a customer feel that special feeling: “Hey, they care about me,” or feeling impressed by great employees. Increasingly, smartly designed technology can also give you that feeling and give you that feeling of, “Wow, they were thoughtful about how they executed this user experience.” More than anything, we’re all bound by that tendency to want to please people with nice experiences.
You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
I share a lot of these traits and values with my team. Our number one shared value is a commitment to making things great — a commitment to quality.
Another trait is humility. You need an understanding that you don’t know everything, and that things are changing; you always have to be reinventing and coming up with new ideas and new concepts to try to improve that customer experience.
Lastly, an attention to detail and process is important. You need to constantly keep the ball moving; it’s easier to start a project than it is to push it over the finish line. Effective project management is something that we definitely strive for. It’s not just a quality that I like to exude, but it’s something that we look for in our team members, too.
Let’s now move to the main point of our discussion about AI. Can you explain how AI is disrupting your industry? Is this disruption hurting or helping your bottom line?
I’m an optimist, so I tend to think AI will disrupt a lot of industries. Make no mistake, it is a disruptive technology, as is most information technology. In the case of the food services business, I believe the first level of real disruption is the process of the order flow — helping make the process of food preparation and delivery to the end customer smarter, more efficient and more cost effective.
Givex has something called the KDS — the kitchen display system — that allows you to track everything right through the process. The KDS uses information processing on the back end admin that enables you to look at that data — look at the analytics and interpret the back office administration so that you can make meaningful, thoughtful decisions that improve the business.
From an internal area of disruption, it will allow people to have the ideal information at the right time. For example, if you’re a customer service agent and you can use AI to quickly find the answer to a problem, you end up with a happier customer, a happier employee and less cost to the bottom line.
Those are more of the internal operational areas of disruption, but in terms of the real, existential or experiential disruptors in this business, I can think of three.
The first one is conversational AI — being able to execute human-like transactions and have the customer enjoy it. That was one of the products that we were demonstrating at the National Restaurant Association show in Chicago. It was an animated character, but it was very personable. People loved interacting with that character. Having human-like transactions with conversational AI — somebody that’s friendly and kind and thoughtful, but also has intelligence and humanity — that can provide many advantages.
Secondly, the information that you also have is better because you have recommender systems. Some of those recommender systems are based on machine learning, where we analyze data from historic trends over several years on menu purchases and customers preferences, as well as customer knowledge. Imagine intelligent AI has an understanding of what you most likely would want based on your history and, in a friendly way, it can suggest something that’s a lot better than having an ad pop up. A character could say, “Hey, Jane. I know you like sweets because I noticed that you’ve had cake before. Can I recommend the cheesecake?” It makes it a nicer experience than just a picture of a cheesecake popping up in an ad.
The third big thing in the experiential and existential AI is agentification. You might have heard the term “the everything app,” where you talk with one app and it interfaces with all of your other apps. For example, I have literally hundreds of apps on my phone, and I don’t want to have to dig in and log on with this app or that app. I just want to talk to one app, and that app is empowered with all of my data. I might say, “I’m feeling hungry. It’s lunchtime. What do you recommend? Are there any deals in the neighborhood?” And it could respond, “Yes. At the local Barburrito, they’re having a two-for-one taco deal. You really like those tacos.” Then I could ask it to order that meal for me and have it to my house by noon. The app just takes care of it like a good assistant would.
I think that’s going to change the nature of how all of that interaction happens. There will be fewer people doing their own transactions. We’re going down that continuum of simplification, and I think the everything app is going to be one of the big game changers.
Which specific AI technology has had the most significant impact on your industry?
In general, the large language models have been the most game changing. There are a lot of different types of AI that are used — such as machine learning — but I don’t specifically think of it as AI.
Can you share a pivotal moment when you recognized the profound impact AI would have on your sector?
When I started playing around with earlier versions of ChatGPT, like 3.5 and some of the other sort of competitive products at that time, there weren’t a lot of options. But you realize just how effective and insightful these products were, and this was the worst that they would ever be. Given my understanding of the technology trajectory, I thought, “Holy mackerel. This is going to be great!” If this continues to develop at the rate that we expect, it’s going to offer a lot of value.
It’s going to save a lot of money. It’s going to disrupt things, for sure. When I started playing with the large language models, we’d already been playing around with AI types of apps for years. It’s used in a lot of the gaming technology that we designed.
How are you preparing your workforce for the integration of AI, and what skills do you believe will be most valuable in an AI-enhanced future?
My philosophy is to lean in, embrace technology and find ways to be the most effective at using it. I also teach at a couple local universities in Ontario, and I always say the same thing to my students: It’s going to disrupt jobs. But I think your best bet is to lean in and get as smart with the technology as you can, because there are going to be new opportunities created where there weren’t before.
What we look for is ways to use the technology to make a better customer experience. Over the long term, if you think that way, then new opportunities will arise. “We couldn’t do this before, but we can now.”
One example is in the educational space. If you’re trying to teach something to somebody in an immersive environment, we can do some work in virtual reality. I can put the intelligence of all humanity in the form of this large language model as a learning tutor next to anybody. I can create amazing content and incredible experiences, whether that’s done in an academic context or in a corporate context. That’s going to create a lot of opportunities — content creation opportunities, UX design opportunities, programming opportunities and so on. The pie gets bigger.
What are the biggest challenges in upskilling your workforce for an AI-centric future?
I think the bigger challenge is in encouraging people to try new things and do things a different way. People sometimes get comfortable and the bigger the organization, the more challenging that is. We’re a smaller organization, so it’s a bit more nimble and you’re able to move quickly. It can be challenging to create that sense of urgency about finding a way to always stay focused on improving that customer experience.
I also think there’s some fear and some negative pushback in some creative industries. With film and television, the writers have been pushing back; there’s a lot of anger, and that’s true of a lot of the various skill sets within visual effects and animation, too. I think that will get resolved over time, but in the short run, there’s dissonance there.
What ethical considerations does AI introduce into your industry, and how are you tackling these concerns?
We all want AI to contribute to a better experience. We all understand that technology, as a general rule, is deflationary. It reduces the number of people needed to do a particular job. That is something that we all understand and take for granted in the tech industry.
I think there’s a responsibility on all the business leaders to think about the consequences of the destruction, particularly in this case with AI, as a result of things moving a little bit faster. People do need to adapt. We have an aging workforce. We have a baby boomer workforce, so there has to be money put into helping people transition and helping educate people into positive mindsets related to new technology.
I was a “Star Trek” junkie, as are a lot of my friends in this business, and the wonderful thing about some of this science fiction is it shows you that there’s a world way beyond the problems that we’re solving today. We can’t solve 90% of the major problems we’re dealing with today: our oceans are filled with plastic, our skies are filled with emissions that we can’t get out of the air, there’s a lot of poverty. We have a lot of problems to solve, and I think AI, if people lean into it, can help accelerate the solving of some of those problems and create new opportunities. Ethically, we do need to have an ongoing conversation. I think it’s unethical to fearmonger when people don’t know what they’re talking about. On the other hand, we can’t slough it off. There’s got to be dialogue that respects the individuals and how they are able to live.
Is there some way to transition into these new technologies that allows us to deal with the issue of income inequality? We know that information technology over the last 50–60 years has been extra present in the middle class, and it has been accretive to big tech. How do you stop that? This is not new or specific to AI; AI just accelerates it. If people know that they’re going to eat and they have a roof over their head, and we’re dealing with those issues, it’s amazing how the fear starts to dissipate.
What are your “Five Things You Need To Do, If AI Is Disrupting Your Industry”?
1. Lean in. Understand the opportunities that are in front of you, both operationally and from a product customer perspective. Look seriously at those opportunities because, if you don’t, it becomes easy to get lost and disrupted by the technology.
2. Make a plan and start the dialogue. Put together a group of smart people and make a plan together; not a three-month plan or a six-month plan, but a five-year plan to consider the trajectory of all of that’s happening and decide what makes sense for us, what products are going to be obsoleted, and what can we obsolete, etc.
3. Prepare your people. You can start the dialogue, but then you really have to commit to education. Educate people as much as you can on all aspects of AI, machine learning and the other technologies that are going to be accelerated as a result.
4. Analyze: What will AI affect? By integrating AI into certain sectors, it can transform them into juggernauts, while in others, it can essentially decimate entire industries. Take, for instance, outsourcing call centers — I hate to say it, but those operations are done. Managing a call
center in the Far East and selling agent minutes is becoming automated. This underscores the need to scrutinize every business line and product within your portfolio. Much of this requires strategic thinking, questioning and disrupting your own business processes.
5. How can I eat the parents? This disruptive innovation was developed by Clayton Christensen. He talked about the innovator’s dilemma. Now that you’re as knowledgeable as you can be, you’ve been proactive. How can I start to obsolete the very products that I know have made me prosperous? There are a number of examples in his book, “The Innovator’s Dilemma,” where he talks about companies that miss the boat. Blockbuster could have purchased Netflix for pocket change and they laughed at them; Blockbuster no longer exists. The people that invented the digital camera worked for Kodak, but Kodak, a huge company, was unable to act upon it and execute, so it went bankrupt. You’re going to see a number of opportunities for disruption, and if people don’t think about that very seriously, that is a big risk.
What are the most common misconceptions about AI within your industry, and how do you address them?
I think the first misconception is that AI is some ultra intelligent entity; it’s not as smart as a lot of people think it is. It’s not sentient and I don’t think it’s going to rule the world anytime soon. That’s the biggest misconception, I think, and that just comes with everybody trying to understand what’s happening. So there’s fearmongering in some corners of the media and also in some areas where people are — I wouldn’t call them bad actors, but they have something to gain by creating an agenda, right?
I think the second thing is, AI doesn’t just work by flipping a switch. It’s a whole new way of thinking about your source of knowledge — both an existing base of knowledge, but also an ongoing base of creating knowledge that you can use to draw from. And it’s the process of creating a really, really super smart person in your organization that can tell everybody everything they need to know at the right time, but to create that person requires data. And a lot of times, organizations don’t realize they just want it to work. But without that data, you’re not going to get the kinds of changes that you’re expecting.
And I think thirdly, people assume, “Oh, AI is done. It’s here.” There is so much more work left to do — if this were a journey of 1,000 miles, we’re probably at mile three, you know? And I think the technology is going to change. It’s going to improve. We’re going to look back and we’re going to go, “Okay, that’s what it was.” So I think there’s going to be a large journey yet to come and I think it’s going to gradually improve things. It’s going to piss some people off, but I think for those that are taking a constructive view, they’ll do well.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life?
The best thing that I ever heard was not exactly profound, but it came from my grandfather, who I really respected and considered one of my heroes. He had achieved a lot in his life. Before he
died, I asked if he had any thoughts or words of wisdom. He replied, “I like people who try hard.” To me, that meant a lot because it’s easy to become despondent. The toughest thing is to stay engaged and to just try hard. I think that encompasses a positive mindset — a willingness to lean in, to be less judgmental and to avoid distractions.
Off-topic, but I’m curious. As someone steering the ship, what thoughts or concerns often keep you awake at night? How do those thoughts influence your daily decision-making process?
I’m entrepreneurial by nature, so I’m always wondering, “What are we missing?” There’s that FOMO, or fear of missing out. I feel that the pace of change is daunting. Trying to process a lot of that and make sense of it is a challenge, and I think that’s kind of what sleep is for. You start to put everything together and organize your sense of internal logic. Trying to make sense of it all in a pretty fast-paced industry — trying to avoid missing out on something — raises the stakes. It’s more fun too. In some ways, you’re more jazzed and hyped up because, in the last 25 years, it’s the most interesting area of technology. The internet spawned a whole new realm of possibility, and that’s kind of what’s happening now — it’s a new realm of possibility. You’re always thinking about what’s next.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)
I think it would be educating people on using technology constructively. I do a podcast, and I try to do things that help people understand and make sense of technology. I want people to realize that it’s a tool we can control, and by learning how to use it, we can help people have a voice, too. When they understand what technology can do, they can speak with confidence.
What we don’t want is the worst-case scenario, where we have a big tech industry that continues to accrue value from everyone’s contributions, creating a new sort of fiefdom. Personal empowerment and understanding how to use technology to make yourself better, your companies better and the world better, to solve problems — that’s key. I think getting people focused on solving problems is crucial. I’m not a big fan of everybody yelling and screaming at each other in the political arena. If we could teach people to just say, “Okay, there’s a list of things that need to be solved. Let’s focus on using technology to solve problems,” that would be ideal. That’s what I would do.
How can our readers further follow you online?
Listen to my podcast: “The Just Virtual Podcast.” It’s on Spotify and it’s meant to help people.
If you go to danhawes.com, there are links on there as well. There’s a book called “The Billion Dollar Metaverse Challenge.” It’s fun. I like to try to educate in a fun way and help people understand complex concepts in a way that’s memorable.
Thank you for the time you spent sharing these fantastic insights. We wish you only continued success in your great work!
About the Interviewer: Cynthia Corsetti is an esteemed executive coach with over two decades in corporate leadership and 11 years in executive coaching. Author of the upcoming book, “Dark Drivers,” she guides high-performing professionals and Fortune 500 firms to recognize and manage underlying influences affecting their leadership. Beyond individual coaching, Cynthia offers a 6-month executive transition program and partners with organizations to nurture the next wave of leadership excellence.
