Danielle Atkins Of Land & Ladies On How Farmers And Agricultural Workers Diversify Their Income Streams
An Interview With Martita Mestey
Periodic timber harvests. PLAN to log on a harvest plan rather than when various expenses require it. And after the harvest is complete, either follow through with a reforestation plan (if a clearcut was conducted) or continue management activities to promote thinning activities. A managed forest provides higher quality products AND volume, which increase financial sustainability rather than letting the forest “be natural.”
In today’s rapidly changing world, economic resilience is crucial. For farmers and agricultural workers, diversifying their income sources can be a key strategy in achieving financial stability and success. By exploring alternative and supplementary revenue streams, these individuals can better adapt to market fluctuations, climate change, and other challenges. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Danielle Atkins, CEO of Land & Ladies.
Land & Ladies is the online forestry consulting group whose mission is to equip and empower women and families across the Southeast to manage a sustainable and profitable forest by asking the right questions and get the right results. Graduating from the UGA Warnell School of Forestry and Natural Resources with her B.S.F.R. in wildlife and her Master of Forest Resources, she has worked with the Georgia Forestry Commission for 4.5 years before branching out as a consultant and later starting Land & Ladies in 2020. Danielle has held various leadership roles with the Georgia Forestry Association’s Emerging Leaders, Society of American Foresters and is a registered forester in Georgia (#2997).
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
Yes, thank you! I grew up as a military brat and honestly had ZERO experience in rural economies, let alone farming and forestry. But after I started university, stumbled across the wildlife major opportunities and discovered what forestry was truly all about… I was on a new direction for my forestry career. Ironically, everything I’ve always said I would “never” do, God has instantly put me in my place through those experiences! Never work in government: spent 4.5 years working for the state. Never want to stay home: had my kids and instantly didn’t want to work 9–5 anymore. Never wanted to work for myself: jokes on me, started my own company! But it was through all those experiences of course which gradually showed me some of the challenges women have when trying to manage their forestlands after they are widowed or handed this inheritance through their parents, but often without being more engaged with the past management decisions. We all know statistically speaking women outlive men, and yet we never actually want to think about the times they wont be there. So after seeing story after story unfold in front of my eyes, and even having my own kids become a motivating reason I have become so focused on helping families not only look at their family lands as an asset, but as a generational wealth building opportunity.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this fascinating career?
I started the company in the middle of Covid right, literally MAY of 2020…but I’ve been developing women focused work since 2017 and have been fine tuning my style and outreach steps… but 2020 was probably the WORST time to start any type of company, especially one that didn’t plan to become an online business… because forestry is all about connections in person and seeing action in the field. BUT Covid actually forced us to regroup, refocus and look at how to fill this niche that needed to be addressed. So although I don’t know if interesting is the “right” word, we were able to do some of the FIRSTS for forestry education on the online world, because Covid FORCED us to think out of the box. We started a 6-week online academy, from which you’ll see many other similar styled programs exist in different forestry extension programs now. But it is through these online programs where women are coming from ALL OVER, Georgia to Florida to Wisconsin and New York all the way to Oregon, and hearing similar stories to theirs… although perhaps they have different plans and different acreages, different timber types and different family structures…. they have the opportunity to see that they are not alone and connect with others who can relate and understand exactly what they’re going through… and more importantly CHEER one another on with their success!
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Persistence. To start and follow through on anything, especially something new which hasn’t been done in quite the same way before, at least within your own industry, takes persistence to believe in yourself when others may have doubts.
Faith. A lot of my path is God driven… whether I knew it at the time or not. But its during times of uncertainty and doubt that you just have to keep the faith and keep taking one step in front of the other, even if you can’t see the full picture of what you’re going to do.
Humor. You have to laugh at yourself, and honestly I try to bring humor to most of my education! Because I’ve always learned best when I feel relaxed and slightly entertained. We now have a growing social media, where I take a lot of forestry education and landowner challenges and share them through TikTok traditional humor. I also tend to relate forestry jargon or examples to something completely different… like cleaning the house or a scene in Monsters University (I watch a lot of Pixar movies being a mom of three young kids, so there tend to be a lot of cartoon metaphors, ha.). But this first, is me being my most authentic self, but also has allowed us to share in a different manner than what is typically done for our industry.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
I have a few… I actually love quotes so much that I keep a little journal of inspiring quotes I stumble across, so picking one is difficult. But I would say one that’s sticking out to me right now would be a Martin Luther King, Jr quote that I actually kept in my office when I was working with the state, and still pops to my mind often when I’m working to develop new programs. It is “If I cannot do great things, I can do small things in a great way.” I cannot tell you the whole speech or anything this comes from, but it has been a great reminder that I do not need to try to tackle the WHOLE problem and change the WHOLE world. Problems and the world get changed through daily, small acts. And those acts are often most successful when you do not care who gets the credit. Am I trying to do powerful and big things? Sure. But if I cannot do the small daily tasks successfully… why would I ever think I could handle the responsibility of bigger dreams? So… no matter how small and mundane the work or the tasks seems to be in the moment… I must always remember to do it to the best of my ability… because if I cannot do “great” things today… I can do the small things in a great way. And honestly, that is what most people will remember about you, how you acted and handled yourself in your daily walk and life.
Can you share something about your work that makes you most proud? Is there a particular story or incident that you found most uplifting?
Anytime I get an email, text or social media message about how much my videos or program mean to them… I am uplifted that the work we are doing is helping. Most recently we’ve started a podcast and I had a woman come up to me at an event I was speaking at and tell me how MUCH she loved the podcast and it was inspiring her… and that she LOVED our foundation of faith we integrate into all of our work. And so with our audience… it is those moments that make me feel empowered knowing we are making a difference for families and their forestland legacy.
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion about ‘How Farmers And Agricultural Workers Diversify Their Income Streams’. This might be intuitive to you but it will be helpful to expressly spell this out. Can you share with our readers why this has become a necessity?
Okay, so I’m not a farmer, nor do I work in the traditional agricultural fields. But it is a common fact that most farmers tend to have timberland within their land base! But the trees can often get neglected with the more immediate workload needs of the ag fields. But it is INCREDIBLY important to diversify income streams with ag AND timberland, because you are no adding in long-term income opportunities to your portfolio, with timber harvest income running every 15–20 to 30 years…. But even in the forest landscape it is JUST AS important to diversify and increase your income streams. Why? Two words: property taxes. These are what makes most land be perceived as a liability when land is passed down or inherited. Setting up different and consistent income streams relieve the pressure of annual property taxes. Secondly, it increases the ROI from your land and allows you to either achieve MORE management on the ground than you might have previously now that you have more income flow OR it increases the financial sustainability of the land and thus increases the perception that it is a family burden to a family asset. There are many variables when it comes to the ag and forestry fields, most of which are out of our hands… setting up to diversify various income streams protects us from “losing it all” if something catastrophic should happen or at least if the traditional revenue stream needs to be postponed for any reason.
What are the most common barriers that farmers and agricultural workers face when trying to diversify their income streams?
Understanding the market opportunities. Not ALL landowners will have the same market opportunities, and when it comes to income streams it is heavily dependent on what you have within a particular radius. For traditional forestry timber products that radius might be 60–100 miles. For different income streams it depends on your timber type, location (again) and your willingness to actively manage and pursue those opportunities. Now what are these out of the box or different streams I’m referring to? I’m talking bird watching leases, palmetto berry leases, there’s the new carbon markets everyones talking about, forest foraging leases (like for mushrooms and other edible plants), I’m talking cell phone towers or billboards, fishing clubs and hunting (although hunting is more traditional and accepted), you can get creative and set up an event space to hold family reunions or weddings, or more…
How have government policies and regulations impacted the ability of farmers and agricultural workers to diversify their income? Are there any specific policies or programs that support or hinder this process?
There are various policies to be aware of. When it comes to forestry, thankfully we have a lot of flexibility thanks to silvicultural exemptions as long as timber income is our MAIN objective. However, policies and regulations vary from state to state, and therefore depending where you’re at you may have a lot harder time trying to do different management techniques. The more infringes there are on private property rights, the harder it is explore opportunities to diversify income on our lands.
How can farmers and agricultural workers access information, resources, and support to help them explore and implement new income streams?
Join your local forestry groups, whether it be through the local NRCS, Extensions, Forestry Associations. There are actually a lot of different Co-Ops or Co-Op like groups for different “niches” that can provide a TON of resources and potential support to start integrating new income streams. But it does really come down to understanding what you HAVE, and what you WANT. It can easy to get excited about all the different opportunities and start chasing what I call “rabbit opportunities”… which actually might distract you from your ultimate vision of what you’re trying to create on the landscape. So although I do highly recommend joining these different groups and associations, make sure you also take the time to fully know what you’re trying to do and why… which is the foundation I ALWAYS take with my audience. You can find our free resource of “The One Thing I Ask ALL My Students” on our webpage which help walk you through to think through your “why” statement for your land, which you need to find the best income streams to pursue.
How have cooperatives, partnerships, or collaborations played a role in helping farmers and agricultural workers diversify their income? Can you share any examples?
As I had just mentioned above there are a ton of programs and resources out there to help landowners pursue different aspects of management and income streams. And many of these are actually through cooperatives or collaborations, since many organizations recognize that the forest landscape functions BEST when there are multiple things addressed at the same time. For example, the different wildlife cannot thrive without the forest actively being managed, which usually means making logging and/or prescribed burning decisions to achieve a certain forest structure type, and without ideal wildlife habitat you could not pursue hunting leases or bird watching opportunities! That’s a simple example, but the same could be addressed for nearly any and all income stream being pursued: the land needs to be actively managed to have opportunities.
How can sustainable practices and the increasing focus on environmental conservation create new opportunities for farmers and agricultural workers to diversify their income streams?
Farmers and landowners have always been on the forefront to various environmental conservation pursuits. They may not all look the same, however it goes without saying that we NEED the landscape to be sustainable to support our livelihood. So in many cases farmers and landowners may have been doing different management activities already for conservation… but now that there is a lot more focus on these efforts from outside parties, it provides the opportunities for farmers and landowners to be rewarded for their efforts. Which all in all is a win-win for everyone as it now is much easier to continue that management work or even to integrate some newer technologies or practices that may not have been attainable without a cash flow revenue stream.
In what ways can farmers and agricultural workers leverage their expertise and experience to offer value-added products or services, such as agritourism, farm-to-table events, or educational workshops?
Covid has really made everyone more aware of the little indoor bubble we were all in before and actively looking to pursue MORE outdoor activities. Offering opportunities for the public to visit your homestead and see the dirt work process can be rewarding financially, but also rewarding in the long-term of a more informed society that can vote for POSITIVE action and COMMON SENSE policies that affect agriculture and private property, forest management rights.
How do you foresee the role of urban farming and vertical farming in the future of agriculture, and what opportunities might these present for farmers and agricultural workers to diversify their income streams?
I’m not qualified to speak on this subject.
Based on your experience and research, can you please share your “5 Ways Farmers And Agricultural Workers Diversify Their Income Streams”?
1 . Periodic timber harvests. PLAN to log on a harvest plan rather than when various expenses require it. And after the harvest is complete, either follow through with a reforestation plan (if a clearcut was conducted) or continue management activities to promote thinning activities. A managed forest provides higher quality products AND volume, which increase financial sustainability rather than letting the forest “be natural.”
2 . Explore hunting leases. Whether you lease to individuals, a small group or club, or pursue other alternatives which are best described as the “VRBO’s of hunting”, there are opportunities to gain annual income stream to at least pay for the property taxes from different hunters. This can also help sustain the wildlife population which might be negatively impacting your traditional crops.
3 . “You Pick” opportunities. These can vary from your traditional ag crops, perhaps setting aside a portion of the landscape dedicated to this, as well as integrating these opportunities in your forestland, such as wildflower picking. Growing in popularity since Covid families are looking to get back to “fresh food” and looking for ways it can also be a family experience. “You Pick” provides the opportunities for both of those experiences and can take up a relatively small area of your land.
4 . Bird Watching leases. This will be dependent on your timber type and location, but there is a growing demand for bird watching opportunities! A relatively low-impact opportunity on your wildlife and forestland since they are only watching the birds. Trail systems may need to be integrated though to increase the appeal for your forest and accessibility across the tract.
5 . Carbon Markets. This is a new and emerging market (well, its new in the way it is growing public exposure and landowner access.) Because it is still emerging, it is changing relatively quickly. These are also longer term programs, some as long as 60+ years… therefore must be considered carefully, weighing the pros and the cons of the program contracts to be sure it DOES align with your land’s objectives and goals.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)
Christy Wright. She’s not in ag or forestry, but she’s been a huge inspiration that helped me with the courage and foundations to start my own business and I have always admired how she has unapologetically led and worked in business and faith side by side.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
You can find me through www.landandladies.com and follow me as well on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook or TikTok @landandladies
This was very meaningful, thank you so much, and we wish you only continued success.
