David Lesser Of Numina On How to Grow Beyond Your Comfort Zone to Grow Both Personally and Professionally

An Interview With Maria Angelova

Go do something very different. Take for example me moving to a new country, or times when I deliberately put myself in a place that is not me. I run groups where everybody is open to doing something, unfamiliar to them. For example, changing the way you eat, shaving your beard, learning to ride a bike, taking a cold shower instead of warm, sleeping on the floor instead of your bed — not uncomfortably different, just small stuff to push yourself and have a different experience.

It feels most comfortable to stick with what we are familiar with. But anyone who has achieved great success will tell you that true growth comes from pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. What are some ways that influential people have pushed themselves out of their comfort zone to grow both personally and professionally? As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing David Lesser.

David is an Executive Coach, as well as the founder of the Numina Transformation Retreat- a tool to improve clarity, provide direction, and radically transform your life. He has dedicated his 35-year career to coaching CEO’s and prominent leaders to become the best version of themselves through his methods. He lives in the Bay Area with his wife and looks forward to gathering leaders and their teams to actualize improvement, transformation, and mutual empowerment.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?

I was born in London. An early childhood memory that stands out for me — I remember being in the back of the car as a young boy when I would often overhear my father and uncle engagingly talking about business. They both operated a 2000 employee enterprise. Their whole conversation was engulfed in excitement about how they could bring the best out of those people who worked for them. So really from a young age I became attuned to that way of thinking.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“If you want to change the world, encourage people to be more fully themselves”. It’s relevant because I quickly became aware that supporting people wasn’t about molding them into some ideal. What was important was to tune into who a person really is and find ways to encourage them to flourish to be more fully what they already are, not to make them try to be something they are not.

Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?

The Bhagavad Gita –a 700 verse Hindu scripture. In that story Krisha shows himself in 1000 x 1000 faces- untranslated into earthly form and it was too much, and unrelatable, he was too grand to comprehend. In the story, the other character, Arjuna, pleaded with Krisha “can you show me who you really are? Show yourself to me in the way that I am accustomed to”. To me that has always been a reminder that even though we show up in a certain way, the full range of being is way bigger that can possibly be experienced in a single lifetime. The beauty is that you show as much of yourself as you can in the time you have, in the circumstances that arise without feeling like you should be more than you are.

Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. Let’s start with a basic definition so that all of us are on the same page. What does “getting outside of your comfort zone” mean?

People usually have some part of their lives/expression where they treat themselves as being smaller than they are capable of being. Outside of the comfort zone most of what you find are these emotions — fear, shame, anger, sadness, or “sad, mad, glad, bad, afraid”.

Can you help articulate a few reasons why it is important to get out of your comfort zone?

Outside of the comfort zone you feel emotions, sometimes you feel physical discomfort, what’s uncomfortable about that is that is triggers emotions. Emotions are how we grow — it means “moving out”. It’s important to get out of your comfort zone so that aspects of your soul aren’t bottled up by your reluctance to be uncomfortable. If you are reluctant, you won’t feel feelings, and each of those feelings are gateways to parts of our being that are important to express. For example, sadness can be a gateway to love, anger can be a gateway to power, fear can be a gateway to awareness, or shame can be a gateway to confidence.

Is it possible to grow without leaving your comfort zone? Can you explain what you mean?

Not really, growth is about a willingness to be disturbed. A willingness to experience something differently that you can eventually be doing it.

Can you share some anecdotes from your personal experience? Can you share a story about a time when you stepped out of your comfort zone and how it helped you grow? How does it feel to take those first difficult steps?

Leaving London, coming to a new country is an example of stepping out of my comfort zone. I had a dream a few years later after I left, of the alternative life I could have had, had I not moved into something totally different — in the dream I had more fame and wealth, but it was a limited version of the expression of what I’m capable of. Now I have experienced people, I’ve been lucky enough to have worked with some great leaders in our world and support them. Transforming my circumstances was vital to learning how people transform and grow in their lives. Taking the first steps felt very practical, getting moved over to the US. The hardest steps are when you land, and realizing there is no going back, because it can feel scary. I knew I couldn’t do it alone, so I found community and a sense of mutual empowerment. It was vital to learn any big transition is too big to do alone.

Here is the central question of our discussion. What are your “five ways to push past your comfort zone, to grow both personally and professionally”?

1. Face your fears. A client had spent his career working for other people and took the leap to start his own company, he had to face fears that surfaced — admit he would fail, that he’d be laughed at, that he’d go broke, he had to explore those fears deliberately to not handicap himself. My client did a great job of naming those fears that could have held him back, and kept them in front of him rather than allowing them to suffocate him from the back.
2. Setting boundaries. This would be a relationship situation; I was working with a couple. Their habit was that one party was the angry one, the other was accommodating one, always trying to adapt. While it initially looked like person always speaking out was the angry one, after scratching the surface, it turns out the accommodating person was the angry one who had pent-up aggression. I helped them grow into something way more functional than how they had been doing it. In turn turning anger into clarity.
3. Finding confidence in Shame. I had a client who always had a shiny patent, an alpha, and was very good at making others impressed with who he was and his achievements. Yet there was a dissatisfaction in him, he felt bad about himself even though he was very good at making himself look great to others. Shame is sometimes superior and sometimes shy. The goal was to help him understand that who he is, exactly as he is, is enough, to prove how great he is. He had admitted to himself this was shame, that who he was exactly as he was, was indeed perfect. Then understanding this voice wasn’t him but his mother. He then started to listen to a different part of himself that loved and believed in him as he was.
4. Finding connection in sadness. A client of mine was feeling very alone and wanted a partner in life. The journey there was to feel the aloneness more deeply but to feel it as openness to love. The reason you feel empty inside is because you have this capacity to connect. Reframe the “I must be lonely because I’m not good at connecting” to “this feeling of loneliness is my longing to connect, it makes me a good partner”. We reviewed times where she connected greatly with others, being willing to feeling alone is what lead to a connection and a beautiful loving partnership.
5. Go do something very different. Take for example me moving to a new country, or times when I deliberately put myself in a place that is not me. I run groups where everybody is open to doing something, unfamiliar to them. For example, changing the way you eat, shaving your beard, learning to ride a bike, taking a cold shower instead of warm, sleeping on the floor instead of your bed — not uncomfortably different, just small stuff to push yourself and have a different experience.

From your experience or perspective, what are some of the common barriers that keep someone from pushing out of their comfort zone?

Fear, sadness, anger, shame, and really believing those emotions need to be avoided or corrected as opposed to just felt and allowed to be as they.

There is a well-known quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt that says, “Do something that scares you every day”. What exactly does this mean to you? Is there inherent value in doing something that pushes you out of your comfort zone, even if it does not relate to personal or professional growth? For example, if one is uncomfortable about walking alone at night should they purposely push themselves to do it often for the sake of going beyond their comfort zone? Can you please explain what you mean?

Most of us don’t need to go that far out to notice then navigate the fear more skillfully rather than avoid it. There is inherent value in doing lots of little things that push us out of our comfort zone. If you feel sad, reach out and connect, if you feel ashamed be more fully yourself.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?

Mutual empowerment. Helping people create their own personal network of support and sustain that on a deep level. Whatever provides real support for you go find it and make it mutual so that you are each supporting each other and it’s worth continuing. People that have support in their lives are way more fulfilled and creative than people who try and do it alone. If we could help everybody have a personal network of support and make a culture where we want to do that for others, I think that would do the most amount of good.

Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!

Vladmir Putin, so that I can empathize with whatever might happening inside of him, that’s causing things that I don’t care for that much. It would also be uncomfortable for me to go there, so I would also grow from the situation. The people that I most disagree/dislike, those are the people for whom my empathy might have the most impact.

How can our readers follow you online?

Instagram @numina.community

Or sign up for my email newsletter: numina.team

My retreat is available for purchase: On Amazon

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We wish you only continued success in your great work!

About The Interviewer: Maria Angelova, MBA is a disruptor, author, motivational speaker, body-mind expert, Pilates teacher and founder and CEO of Rebellious Intl. As a disruptor, Maria is on a mission to change the face of the wellness industry by shifting the self-care mindset for consumers and providers alike. As a mind-body coach, Maria’s superpower is alignment which helps clients create a strong body and a calm mind so they can live a life of freedom, happiness and fulfillment. Prior to founding Rebellious Intl, Maria was a Finance Director and a professional with 17+ years of progressive corporate experience in the Telecommunications, Finance, and Insurance industries. Born in Bulgaria, Maria moved to the United States in 1992. She graduated summa cum laude from both Georgia State University (MBA, Finance) and the University of Georgia (BBA, Finance). Maria’s favorite job is being a mom. Maria enjoys learning, coaching, creating authentic connections, working out, Latin dancing, traveling, and spending time with her tribe. To contact Maria, email her at angelova@rebellious-intl.com. To schedule a free consultation, click here.