Dr Lori Beth Bisbey On Becoming Free From The Fear Of Failure
An Interview With Savio P. Clemente
Identify what the fear actually is. What are you afraid will happen if you fail?
Amanda wouldn’t go out on a date because she was afraid, she would make a mess of it. She was convinced that she would not be able to make conversation and that no one would like her as a result. Eventually she identified that she was afraid if she failed at a date, she would be alone forever. Once she was able to stop looking at one date as the harbinger of doom for forever, it was easier to consider trying.
The Fear of Failure is one of the most common restraints that holds people back from pursuing great ideas. Imagine if we could become totally free from the fear of failure. Imagine what we could then manifest and create. In this interview series, we are talking to leaders who can share stories and insights from their experience about “Becoming Free From the Fear of Failure.” As a part of this series, I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Dr Lori Beth Bisbey.
Dr Bisbey is a psychologist, sex & intimacy coach, accredited advanced GSRD (gender, sex and relationship diversity) therapist who has been working with individuals and couples for over 30 years, helping them create and maintain amazing relationships containing sizzling sex (and without the shame). She is the resident psychologist on Open House: The Great Sex Experiment, Channel 4 UK. You can find out more on her website https://drloribethbisbey.com/
Thank you so much for joining us! Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’?
I was raised to believe that I could succeed if I would try but also that failing brought shame and ridicule. It wasn’t intentional. My parents did not ridicule me, and they did not deliberately shame me. However, when I failed, I was often told it was because I had not tried hard enough. I internalized their disappointment and felt ashamed of myself for failing. The ridicule came from failing socially. I was different and I knew it. I tried very hard to fit in and until I was able to create my group of equally different friends around me (in high school), I was often ridiculed because of my difference.
I learned to fear trying things socially — to avoid trying to join in — because failure was always so public and so painful. It got worse when I realized that my sexuality and sexual desires were different so I couldn’t figure out the right way to date and to get my desires satisfied. After an intense sexual trauma in university caused me to develop PTSD, I embarked on a career change to work with people to help them to heal from trauma and get rid of shame. Trauma is paralyzing and the fear of failure and fear of being triggered can become bound together leading to people finding it hard to act at all in some areas. I work with people on healing trauma, and on healing shame around sex and intimacy and help them to gain the skills they need to create and maintain relationships that work for them. One area I spend time on is helping clients to feel all their feelings and still take action to meet their goals.
Can you share with us the most interesting story from your career? Can you tell us what lessons or ‘take aways’ you learned from that?
I have worked with people for more than 30 years so choosing one story is so difficult! When I think about the fear of failure, my most salient memory is of the first time I presented at a professional conference. I have never liked crowds. My first attendance at professional conference, I was petrified that no one would speak to me, and I would end up standing alone looking awkward. I walked into the meet and greet, tripped on a stair and promptly fell on my behind. I was mortified. A man came and helped me up and started a conversation and eventually I relaxed enough to really listen to what he was saying. The first time I presented at a large conference, I was presenting my dissertation research results. I was the last person on a panel. I was told I would have 15 minutes to present and 5 minutes for questions. I was so anxious as I waited for my turn, it was hard for me to concentrate. There were about 100 people in the room. The first speaker ran over his time. The second speaker ran over his time. The third speaker ran over his time so that when it was my turn, there were only 5 minutes left. I was so anxious; I was sure I was going to faint. Instead, I stood up and said, ‘We are short on time so are there any questions?’. The previous speakers were asked questions and I didn’t have the chance to present my research at all. I felt as though I had completely failed. I was struggling not to cry. The panel ended and a number of people approached me to ask about my research. I managed to get through answering their questions before I quickly left.
When I finally processed my feelings about this event, I realized two things:
The first was that I saw failure in myself if I did not achieve perfection.
The second was that I could not be responsible for things that were outside of my control so feeling like I failed made no sense. I began to work on my need for perfection in myself as I realized that the fear of not achieving perfection for me was the fear of failure and that this stopped me from trying things. More importantly I began to try to learn what I had control over and what I did not. Eventually, I understood that I could (and can) only control myself which was the biggest take away of all.
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
My tenacity:
I will stick to a project for as long as it takes. If I believe in an idea, I will do what it takes to bring it to fruition. Creating and running a business takes tenacity. You have to be ready to weather the storms that come with bringing a new idea/business to life. I have systemic lupus and psoriatic arthritis. These autoimmune diseases come with persistent fatigue. I live my life in spite of this, having found multiple ways to work around the fatigue and to push through when necessary. I learned tenacity from my grandmother who lived to be 103 years old. She got her master’s degree and 20 credits away from her Ph. D during the depression. She had so little money that all she had to eat on school days was a soft pretzel. She survived two abusive relationships and made a third choice that was better if not healthy. My grandmother is one of my heroes because of her tenacity.
My authenticity:
A number of my clients over the years have commented on my willingness to be authentic in sessions and with people. I am willing to talk about my own failures. For example, I am a relationship expert, and I am on my third marriage. This one is amazing. We have been together 13 years now. My first two marriages were definitely not amazing and in fact were unhealthy. I talk about how I ended up in these relationships, how I made the decision to leave them and the work I did to choose differently.
My willingness to take a leap of faith. I emigrated to the UK in 1990 despite the cancellation of my wedding (I was due to move as a married person) because of my then fiancé’s alcoholism. He was 7 days sober the day I got on the plane with him and moved to the UK. We married 9 months later and were together 8 ½ years. I am still in the UK 32 years later. In my opinion, leaders need to be amazing at risk assessment and also be willing to trust their gut and take a leap of faith.
Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s shift to the main focus of this interview. We would like to explore and flesh out the concept of becoming free from failure. Let’s zoom in a bit. From your experience, why exactly are people so afraid of failure? Why is failure so frightening to us?
People are afraid that failure means they will lose everything. They fear their lives will collapse, that they will have no value as people. We are taught that success is central to happiness and so it is petrifying to think of failing. We are often also shamed for falling short in areas or failing. People fear feeling the shame which is an awful feeling, and they fear losing the esteem of people they care about and respect.
What are the downsides of being afraid of failure? How can it limit people?
The main downside is that when people are afraid of failure, they tend to limit the things that they do. They don’t try new things. They become over cautious. They don’t take risks. Taking calculated risks is essential to every part of our lives. The more afraid of failure people become, the smaller their lives become.
In contrast, can you help articulate a few ways how becoming free from the free of failure can help improve our lives?
When we are free of the fear of failure, we are able to take risks and try new things. This broadens the scope of our lives. Innovation requires risk taking. In order to innovate, we have to experiment. When we experiment, by definition, we are doing something without knowing what the outcome will be. We have a hypothesis, and we are testing that.
When we are free of the fear of failure, we are able to be more vulnerable and therefore more authentic. Vulnerability deepens intimacy and increases connection in relationships, so this leads to the possibility of happier more intimate relationships.
When we are free of the fear of failure, we are able to try things without knowing how good we will be or if we will succeed and this can lead to discovering new talents — or just experiencing more joy — even when do ‘fail’ by societal standards. We become less rigid, less controlling and more able to relax.
We would love to hear your story about your experience dealing with failure. Would you be able to share a story about that with us?
I began taking piano lessons when I was 5 and I loved these lessons. I took lessons through age 17 when I left for university and even had some lessons my first year of university. I practiced a lot and was considered talented. I was 13 and we were doing the play The Pajama Game at school. Usually, I would audition for a part in the play (and I would usually get a decent part) but this time I decided to audition for the accompanist role. This was the first time I was ever going to accompany anyone on the piano. The training for doing that is different. I had always played solo piano — never even played with other instruments and now I was going to play with the singers. I did well in the audition and was given the role for part of the play. I think it was for the first few songs in the first act. I was extremely excited and also extremely anxious. I did OK in the first rehearsals and in the dress rehearsal but on the night of the show I was awful. My timing was off for the first number, and I didn’t know how to just let that go and reset so it just kept getting worse. The first mistake led to feelings of failure which led to more mistakes until I just stopped playing. I remember being in tears when my part finished, and the intermission arrived.
How did you rebound and recover after that? What did you learn from this whole episode? What advice would you give to others based on that story?
I do not remember what my parents said or what the teachers said. I remember a friend coming and comforting me. The next day I practiced and practiced until I had the timing perfectly. I remember talking with my piano teacher about it and being told that while practicing was good, what was more important for playing with other people was learning to follow them and learning to relax when I made a mistake and just continue on. At first, I had trouble rebounding and refused to play with other musicians again. In fact, I didn’t play piano with other musicians as a pianist again until I was in university.
When I finally got past my fear of failing again, I played with a flautist that I met in the park one day. I decided that I had already experienced the worst thing that could happen (failing in front of a whole group of people, including people who were important to me) so if I failed it wouldn’t be as bad. I failed the first few times but after a few weeks, I was finally able play the pieces with my friend and move on when I made a mistake. I also noticed that he made mistakes too and so I was able to be relaxed.
The advice I give to others is first to not wait so long to try again! Waiting increases the level of fear and anxiety and makes it harder to move past a failure. The second piece of advice is to stop taking yourself so seriously. The world will not end if you fail. You are not the only person who fails. Work on relaxing and learning to not let a small failure become a bigger one.
Fantastic. Here is the main question of our interview. In your opinion, what are 5 steps that everyone can take to become free from the fear of failure”? Please share a story or an example for each.
Step 1: Identify what the fear actually is. What are you afraid will happen if you fail?
Amanda wouldn’t go out on a date because she was afraid, she would make a mess of it. She was convinced that she would not be able to make conversation and that no one would like her as a result. Eventually she identified that she was afraid if she failed at a date, she would be alone forever. Once she was able to stop looking at one date as the harbinger of doom for forever, it was easier to consider trying.
Step 2: Reality testing the possibility of failure
People often fear failure when they are actually likely to succeed at the activity they are fearing trying. Jorge wouldn’t ask anyone for a date or express romantic interest in anyone because he was convinced that he would be rejected. I asked him to present me with the evidence that he was likely to be rejected. He had never asked anyone for a date so there was no actual experience of being rejected. Instead, we found evidence that at least one man he was interested in might actually like him. The man always started a conversation after class and often seemed reluctant to part ways when Jorge reached his car. Reality testing is always useful when you have a strong fear. The question to ask first is ‘What is the evidence that this fear will come to pass?’ and then to ask, ‘Is there any evidence that you will succeed?’ And then look at the evidence in front of you.
Step 3: Define failure clearly.
Roberta was offered a promotion at work but was afraid to accept it. She was afraid that she would fail in her new role and that this would lead to her losing her job all together. In examining why, she was so convinced she would fail, she said that she didn’t know how to do some of the things the new role required. I asked Roberta if she would get training in her new role and new tasks if she accepted the promotion and she agreed that she would receive training, but she was concerned that she would make some mistakes during the learning process. Roberta felt that if she couldn’t do the role and all the tasks perfectly (without any mistakes) this would be perceived as failing and therefore she would lose her job. She was able to ask about what level of perfection was expected of her in this new role and was reassured that it was expected she might make some mistakes as she learned the new role and tasks. It took some time before Roberta felt comfortable with the idea that one could make some mistakes and still not be failing.
This isn’t unusual. People who are perfectionists often define failure as anything less than perfect. This rigid definition makes it difficult to try anything new without fear of failure.
Step 4: Try something that you are likely to fail at and where the consequences of failing are objectively insignificant.
For example, try a new sport where there is no risk of injury and where it doesn’t matter if you fail. Work on sitting with the feelings around the failure until you are comfortable with failing in situations where there are no real consequences. Margaret was so afraid to fail that she rarely did anything outside of her very narrow comfort zone. Her comfort zone was composed of the things she could do really well and the people she knew really well. Margaret decided to go take a golf lesson in order to practice failing and to see how she felt. She missed hitting the ball most of the lesson and felt foolish, but this soon passed.
Step 5: Learn a method of relaxation that you can use when you are feeling frightened. You cannot feel fear when you are experiencing a competing emotion. Relaxed is the opposite of tense and you are tense when you are frightened. Laughter also counteracts fear. Harry took some breathwork classes and used these skills whenever he felt fear. He would breathe through the fear and then he was able to take action.
The famous Greek philosopher Aristotle once said, “It is possible to fail in many ways…while to succeed is possible only in one way.” Based on your experience, have you found this quote to be true? What do you think Aristotle really meant?
Aristotle was talking of virtue and ethics and talking of many evils but only one true virtue. In my experience, this quote assumes one set of values that are correct, one path that is correct for everyone. I don’t believe that there is one path that is correct for everyone or even that we all only have one correct path. So, in that way, I don’t see this to be true. In my experience, people fail as a result of not attempting, not learning, not paying attention to the responses of themselves and of others. People succeed by being tenacious, learning from their mistakes and failures, paying attention to the responses of themselves and others.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the greatest amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)
If I could inspire people to learn what they can control (themselves) and what they cannot control (everything else) and to learn to focus on what they can control (take responsibility for themselves and improve themselves as much as they can) and not worry so much about what they cannot control (others), I believe the world would be a far better place.
The benefit of learning to distinguish between what you have control over (and therefore can change) and what you don’t have control over (and therefore cannot change) cannot be underestimated. If you are able to integrate this, it will change your life.
We are blessed that some very prominent leaders read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them :-)
I would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with Dr Ruth Westheimer. The two areas I have spent most of my career working with are trauma and sex & relationships. Dr Ruth has extensive wisdom in both of these areas, and I would love the opportunity to hear more of her stories.
How can our readers further follow your work online? My website: https://drloribethbisbey.com has my blog, link to my podcast and links to media I have appeared in, things I have written. Social media: twitter and Instagram: @drbisbey, TikTok: loribethuk
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent on this. We wish you only continued success.
About The Interviewer: Savio P. Clemente coaches cancer survivors to overcome the confusion and gain the clarity needed to get busy living in mind, body, and spirit. He inspires health and wellness seekers to find meaning in the “why” and to cultivate resilience in their mindset. Savio is a Board Certified wellness coach (NBC-HWC, ACC), stage 3 cancer survivor, podcaster, writer, and founder of The Human Resolve LLC.
Savio pens a weekly newsletter at thehumanresolve.com where he delves into secrets from living smarter to feeding your “three brains” — head 🧠, heart 💓, and gut 🤰 — in hopes of connecting the dots to those sticky parts in our nature that matter.
He has been featured on Fox News, and has collaborated with Authority Magazine, Thrive Global, Food Network, WW, and Bloomberg. His mission is to offer clients, listeners, and viewers alike tangible takeaways in living a truly healthy, wealthy, and wise lifestyle.
Savio lives in the suburbs of Westchester County, New York and continues to follow his boundless curiosity. He hopes to one day live out a childhood fantasy and explore outer space.
