Female Founders: Diane Dai of DODO On The Five Things You Need To Thrive and Succeed as a Woman Founder

People say that money can’t buy happiness, but a lack of money can prevent happiness. There’s a certain threshold that we all need to live our lives, to be comfortable. Easy, affordable access to quality financial services is a top issue for poor people, who have fewer opportunities to improve their lives with good financial tools.

As a part of our series about “Why We Need More Women Founders,” I had the pleasure of interviewing Diane Dai.

Diane Dai is the founder and CMO of DODO. As a passionate advocate for DeFI, she also runs “DeFi the World,” one of the largest WeChat groups in the Chinese Decentralized Finance scene.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?

Believe it or not, my interest in the crypto sphere emerged due to my passion for social justice. I’ve always felt that everyone should have the opportunity to trade and invest with ease and minimal third-party involvement. When decentralized finance began to emerge, I recognized that this was the opportunity I had been seeking.

My previous experience in marketing, business development, and social media management as a Marketing Intern at ZhenFund made it easy for me to stand out in a sphere where these skills tend to be lacking. This resulted in me becoming a Marketing Associate at DDEX and, shortly afterward, in my promotion to Head of PR and Marketing.

During my time at DDEX, I gained a lot of knowledge of blockchain technologies and contacts in the crypto sphere, which helped me start my blockchain PR firm, CypherJump. I also launched a blog about DeFi and blockchain on my WeChat, called “DeFi The World.” By 2020, I had the knowledge, network, and confidence to start a standalone DeFi project. So, together with my friend Radar Bear, I co-founded DODO to realize my mission of making finance more accessible for all.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your company?

Everyone I’ve met in the DeFi sphere is surprised that I was born in 1997. That has become one of the most funny parts of leading DODO! Several times, people thought I was an intern. We would meet in real life, and they would ask, “How’s the internship going,” without even realizing that I was the co-founder. That made for some awkward moments before going on stage for a panel at events! One guy asked me (the “intern”) where Diane Dai was, and I turned to him and said, “I’m Diane Dai!” I’ll never forget the surprised and incredulous look on his face…

Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

This hasn’t been a mistake, but it certainly has been a challenge — one of our other co-founders is also my boyfriend. That proves to be its own adventure as an entrepreneur. We’ve been enjoying the process, but it was a huge learning curve to figure out how best to work together. We also had a tough time setting boundaries between business and personal lives at first. Over time, we learned to establish a “stop time” for work. By clearly deciding to close up shop for the day, we could be more effective and productive. And actually, we’ve found our relationship stronger than ever.

Similar situations around boundary setting can present challenges to prospective female founders, who are often juggling many commitments. The reality of being a female co-founder has taught me to be both assertive and yet respectful of my partner in business settings.

I’ve also learned that even entrepreneurs are humans! We can’t be machines, working all the time. We must learn to relax and enjoy life to have harmonious relationships that fuel us to succeed in our professional journeys.

None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?

I am most grateful to my other co-founder and entrepreneur partner Radar Bear. We were already good friends before we founded DODO together. I can say that he is my closest ally in the crypto space. We’ve been supporting each other professionally and personally since we started internships at DDEX.io together in 2017. We both chose to stay and convert to full-time employees.

In 2018, he became my most important critic when I started writing about DeFi on my WeChat blog “DeFi Labs.” He made valuable suggestions and contributions throughout my content creation journey

In 2020, he had a breakthrough idea — a trading algorithm that later became PMM and intended to sell it to a third party as IP. I encouraged him to start his own business and turn the core algorithm into his own product on the blockchain. That’s the origin story of DODO!

In 2021, the crypto market was more volatile than ever, and I was very depressed and anxious about profit and loss for a while. Radar Bear encouraged me and organized a trip with my friends where I went to places I’d never imagined I would ever go, reconciled with myself, and finally returned to the ‘’battlefield’’ more confidently enough to continue leading the team.

From him, I always felt tolerance and wisdom. No matter what happens, good or bad, we always trust each other and encourage each other to become better versions of ourselves. I consider myself lucky to have such a fantastic partner.

Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. According to this EY report, only about 20 percent of funded companies have women founders. This reflects great historical progress, but it also shows that more work still has to be done to empower women to create companies. In your opinion and experience, what is currently holding women back from founding companies?

Much has been said about toxic or unwelcome work environments that prevent women from being promoted within established companies. However, the topic of women being held back in the entrepreneurship scene seems to be downplayed or downright ignored.

Many situations where misogyny prevents womens’ advancement within a workplace can also exist when you try to navigate the startup world. For example, a significant factor in the success of a new venture is how effectively the founder(s) can build contacts with platforms and key promoters to get more publicity and users for your product or service.

This networking is usually informal in the crypto sphere and is based on the male-dominated “4chan” or Reddit” internet cultures. In those places, women and their achievements are generally not taken seriously. Being a woman, or not participating in misogynistic jokes and put-downs, can lower your esteem in the eyes of many people in the community and result in lost opportunities for promotion or less interest from users.

Can you help articulate a few things that can be done as individuals, as a society, or by the government society, or to help overcome those obstacles?

Personally, I believe that the most lasting social change must start on the grassroots level. During my time in the DeFi world, I’ve learned that governments tend to take action on an issue only when people are already doing something about that issue. For example, just look at crypto regulation & adoption by governments in the last few years. What we need to do in our daily and professional lives is to encourage women to become entrepreneurs.

The diversity effort can’t just be empty words; we must be willing to actively support would-be women entrepreneurs by promoting them to our professional and fundraising networks. We must also tolerate many women’s unique challenges, such as being more forgiving with maternity leave and work-life balance.

The third thing we can do is adopt a zero-tolerance approach to the misogynistic “boys’ club” culture present in many crypto circles, which, if done by enough people, would disappear due to being an obstacle to negotiation and collaboration. Once we all do our part, governments will see the success and step in with their initiatives.

This might be intuitive to you as a woman founder, but I think it will be helpful to spell this out. Can you share a few reasons why more women should become founders?

Any industry where constant innovation and new ideas are crucial to commercial success, such as the world of DeFi, where DODO belongs, requires non-stop brainstorming and research to generate new ideas. If everyone involved comes from the same background or has the same problem-solving mindset, the range of ideas that can emerge from such a uniform environment is limited.

This is why diversity is essential: different backgrounds mean that we can surface more ideas when making decisions. Ergo, the more likely it is for such an environment to give birth to real innovation. It’s, therefore, crucial to understand that more women becoming founders or key players is not just an initiative to give women more economic opportunities. Instead, having more women founders is economically advantageous to the business and the community as a whole, and I’m sure it won’t be long before investors realize the opportunity available to them and fund more founders like me.

What are the “myths” that you would like to dispel about being a founder? Can you explain what you mean?

The biggest ‘myth’ I’ve encountered about being a founder is that people seem to think that starting your own company means you have more freedom than an employee. While, in the narrow sense, a company founder has more power to make decisions than an employee, and therefore theoretically can act as they wish, it’s very rarely that simple. Firstly, to run a successful business, a founder must make decisions only after careful research and deliberation with co-workers and external experts.

This makes it much harder for a founder to act independently compared to an employee. In my case, I often find my suggestions being overruled after consulting with my co-founders and co-workers (which is good!). Another way that founders have less freedom than employees is in the personal domain. An employee is often free to close their laptop after 5 PM and spend the rest of the day involved with their affairs.

On the other hand, a founder must be available to make decisions or to have discussions at almost any waking hour of the day. The company’s success depends on the responsiveness of its leadership to sudden changes in market trends or internal conditions, so I can’t just “clock out” of working for DODO after an 8 hour day.

Is everyone cut out to be a founder? In your opinion, which specific traits increase the likelihood that a person will be a successful founder, and what type of person should perhaps seek a “regular job” as an employee? Can you explain what you mean?

I will be honest and say that, no, not everybody can be a successful founder. The main trait a founder needs is perseverance. As a founder, you will often encounter serious challenges and delays in implementing your business plan. You may have trouble getting VC funding, or you may experience sharp decreases in customers leading back to the drawing board.

It’s possible that your company will not make money for several years, and you must be prepared for the possibility that your venture will fail and you will have to start over with nothing. People excited by challenges and see significant risk as a pathway to great reward would thrive in such an environment.

However, someone who is risk-averse and needs a stable flow of income each month would be better off as an employee. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! People have different temperaments. The secret is to get them all to work together harmoniously to create the best business possible.

Ok super. Here is the main question of our interview. Based on your opinion and experience, What are the “Five Things You Need To Thrive and Succeed as a Woman Founder?” (Please share a story or example for each.)

The number one thing is, as I mentioned in my previous answer, perseverance. If you can’t pick yourself up after a setback or even a colossal failure, you aren’t ready to be a founder. This applies to men but is especially crucial for women, who often face more challenges in their entrepreneurship journeys and have less support.

I can’t begin to tell you how many times, especially at the beginning when we were scrambling for funding, I’ve wanted just to quit and start over, but I never let it get to me. Of course, you also have to know when leaving is the right thing to do, but, generally speaking, success will come if you just keep going and don’t let challenges or detractors hold you back.

Number two is good communication skills. As a founder, you have to get your vision and decisions across unambiguously to all your employees. You also need to be able to network effectively with industry partners to negotiate advantageous deals and contracts. Especially as a woman founder, you also need to communicate nonverbally, such as by effectively conveying a sense of trustworthiness, confidence, and authority to whoever you deal with to give your partners and employees a desire to work with you.

In my case, my experience at ZhenFund and DDEX in marketing roles helped me develop strong communication skills. However, I was still not prepared for the communication challenge I faced when I founded an international company. Suddenly, I had to learn to communicate with people from all over the world, taking into account cultural and temperament differences — and, of course, the language barrier didn’t help much! I’m still learning and improving every day.

Another important thing you need is confidence in your skills and abilities. It’s a known fact that many women, especially those in powerful positions, have what’s called “impostor syndrome” — the belief that you’re underqualified for anything you do and that you don’t deserve your genuine accomplishments and positions. This state of mind is much less common among men due to our misogynistic culture that encourages male achievement while discouraging female talent.

Once you, as a woman founder, have this fact in mind, you will be able to fight back against situations where you may feel inadequate and underqualified for what you’re doing. You have to actively encourage yourself and other women around you, founders or otherwise, to take pride in their accomplishments and continue to strive for more.

This is also a great business tip — the more confidence you have in yourself, the more people feel confident about your product or service, resulting in better sales and more customers. While impostor syndrome has not been much of a problem for me, many of my friends and colleagues have told me that such an attitude strikes them reasonably often. When I explained to one of them that it’s not true and that this misconception keeps her from achieving her dreams, she took it to heart and is now starting a business herself!

Number four is being “well-liked.” Now, I don’t mean this in the sense of bowing to pressure from others, especially men, and thereby losing any real agency and decision-making power. This is closer to slavery or subservience than to authentic leadership. You must make the people you work with — your employees and business partners — want to work with you.

Suppose you have a great business model, but you’re quick to anger or are otherwise annoying. In that case, you will find it challenging to find partners (who will take their business to someone more agreeable) or quality employees (who will jump ship to a place where they can get along with their manager). Besides, making friends with your co-workers makes them happier and thus more productive, so that’s another plus!

I found it somewhat challenging to build camaraderie with my employees, mainly since they’re scattered all over the world in vastly different time zones. Over time, a combination of my preference for a flat organizational structure (which allows everyone’s voice to be adequately heard) and my efforts to engage with them in non-professional settings helped me build lasting relationships with my team and inspire growth.

And lastly, you need to be able to apply constructive criticism. Many people seem to take pride in that they can “take” constructive criticism without exploding in anger, but that usually means that they listen to the criticism and then continue doing things as if nothing happened. To truly succeed as a woman founder, you need to know when the criticism you get is just jealousy and a waste of time and when it is well-meaning and critical for your success and that of your business.

I included this tip in my list because you may think that advice from other people is just criticism to try and bring you down after reading my last one. The truth is, there is some advice that will help you, you just need to train yourself to know when that is the case, and this skill comes only through practice.

I had some emotional trouble accepting another’s constructive criticism, as it sometimes made me feel inadequate (see tip number 3). However, I picked myself up by my bootstraps and tried to make the best decision for the company, regardless of how it made me feel. Over time, I became more confident in myself and welcomed all constructive criticism as a learning moment that could help me and the company grow.

How have you used your success to make the world a better place?

My most considerable impact has been to spread the word about decentralized finance to a massive audience with the help of my WeChat group “DeFi The World” and my company, DODO. This, I believe, is a critical step toward a future where commerce can occur between interested parties with minimal barriers.

Too often, we hear about certain groups or individuals worldwide who are restricted in how they conduct trade and grow their wealth due to exorbitant fees or conditions set by governments or third-party intermediaries. With the spread of DeFi, people worldwide will trade, work, and invest in a seamless, democratic manner. They’ll spend less time worrying about fees and untrustworthy agents and more time building products and making the world a better place.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.

People say that money can’t buy happiness, but a lack of money can prevent happiness. There’s a certain threshold that we all need to live our lives, to be comfortable. Easy, affordable access to quality financial services is a top issue for poor people, who have fewer opportunities to improve their lives with good financial tools.

By opening up new pathways to financial health, we will unlock a new wave of wealth that will ease the burden on poorer people while also enabling new ways of living and working. Thanks to remote work and the internet, people have more options than ever before. Just look at the rise of Axie Infinity among people in the Phillippines — what an incredible story!

We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.

I’ve always wanted to meet one of my role models, the co-founder of Ethereum, Vitalik Buterin. Vitalik, if you’re reading this, I’d love to have a chat with you about the secrets to your success. My app, DODO, uses the blockchain you created, and I would love to hear your thoughts (and criticisms!) of what we’re doing.

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.

No problem, and thank you for the interview!