From Frenzy to Focus: Jonathan H. Westover Of Human Capital Innovations On How We Can Cancel Hustle Culture And Create A New Sustainable Work Paradigm

An Interview With Drew Gerber

Prioritize: To truly focus on tasks that make the difference, it is important to prioritize. This means identifying the tasks that are most important to your business and life goals, and focusing your time and energy on them. Prioritizing can help you avoid getting caught up in busy work or distractions that do not align with your goals.

“Hustle Culture” is an ethos often propounded by young self-proclaimed internet gurus that centers around the idea that working long hours and sacrificing self-care are required to succeed. This mentality may have gained popularity in the mid-2010s, but it has peaked, and now it has been sardonically renamed “Burnout Culture.” So why exactly is Hustle Culture the wrong path to take? What damage can it cause? What is a viable, sustainable alternative to hustle culture? How can we move from Frenzy To Focus? In this interview series, we are talking to business leaders, mental health leaders, marketing experts, business coaches, authors, and thought leaders who can share stories and insights about “How We Can Cancel Hustle Culture And Create A New Sustainable Work Paradigm.” As a part of this series, I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Jonathan Westover, Managing Partner and Principal at Human Capital Innovations.

Jonathan H. Westover, Ph.D. is an award-winning US-based Amazon.com #1 Best Selling Author, ranked # 1 HR, Innovation, Leadership, Culture, and Future of Work Global Thought Leader & Influencer (Thinkers360), ranked in the Top 20 in Management and Organizational Culture (Global Gurus), and has been included on LeadersHum’s Power List of the Top 200 Biggest Voices in Leadership to watch for in 2023. He is an entrepreneur, management consultant, teacher, and research academic based in Orem, Utah. He is the host and producer of the popular Human Capital Innovations (HCI) Podcast, Chief Academic & Learning Officer of the HCI Academy, and serves on a host of nonprofit, community, and association boards and committees and has received numerous awards for his teaching, research, and service to the community.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to know how you got from “there to here.” Inspire us with your backstory!

When I founded HCI in 2007, I was a doctoral student, with considerable industry experience as both an in-house and external consultant. As I was enhancing my research skills and capabilities, with a primary focus on the academic community, I realized I wanted to get back to why I was first drawn to consulting work in the first place — to help develop and improve individuals and organizations. While I knew I wanted to pursue an academic career, I wanted to stay closely connected to industry and use my research in applied and practical ways and determined starting my own firm would allow me the opportunities and flexibility to fulfill this dream.

From even my earliest days I remember being driven by the principles of fairness, equity, and authenticity. I couldn’t help but notice the many injustices, hypocrisy, inefficiencies around me. As I received more academic and professional training, I was able to put words to what had always been at my core: a social justice orientation and a desire to serve people. While there are many avenues to work in these areas, my natural aptitude for understanding complex systems led me towards working to help organizations develop and sustain more healthy people-centric cultures, structures, policy, and practices.

Tell us about your typical day!

As a husband and father of six children, my day starts early. I love hanging with my kids in the morning as they get ready for school, and I always look forward to our morning school drop-off rituals! Once my workday gets started, I wear a lot of different hats. I am Professor and Chair of the Organizational Leadership Department at my home university (Utah Valley University), as well as the Academic Director of the Center for Social Impact. I teach and conduct research in the areas of organizational development and change management, leadership, and ethics. I also juggle my many roles at my consulting firm, Human Capital Innovations and its corporate learning and development subsidiary, the HCI Academy. My days are busy and no two are the same. I try to be home when the kids get home from school, and we enjoy an evening of family time and community activities!

What lessons would you share with yourself if you had the opportunity to meet your younger self?

I would tell myself to focus on finding my “WHY”. As I have gotten older, I have discovered that my “Why” relates to servant leadership theory and can be summed up by the Korean proverb 청출어람 or 줄람지예, which translated means “Bluer than Indigo.” Indigo is the bluest of blues, so to have something that is bluer than indigo is truly remarkable — a deep, vibrant, and brilliant blue. Koreans use this proverb to describe the ideal relationship between leader/teacher and pupil — that is that the leader/teacher (indigo) trains and teaches the pupil to become bluer than indigo, or greater than himself/herself. There are many implications of this proverb that are also very important. First, this relationship implies that the leader/teacher sees and recognizes the true potential in their pupil. Second, the teacher makes every effort possible to help the pupil achieve that potential. Third, the teacher takes no thought of himself/herself but rather is dedicated entirely to the success of the pupil; also meaning that pride (ego, status, position, etc.) does not get in the way. As a leader and a teacher, I strive to reach this ideal. That means that I must truly value each colleague and student that I encounter, search out the great potential within each of them, and then do everything within my power to help them see that potential within themselves and then support them in working towards reaching it. To understand how to best provide this support, I must encourage each individual to candidly share his or her thoughts and views, actively listen to and value his or her input, and provide timely and appropriate feedback. Therefore, I strive to develop open relationships of mutual respect and accountability with each individual colleague, student, and client and clearly define my expectations for them, while also understanding their expectations for me.

Ok, thank you for sharing your inspired life. Let’s start with a basic definition to make sure that all of us are on the same page. How do you define Hustle Culture?

“Hustle culture” refers to a societal attitude that promotes and glorifies the idea of working hard and constantly pushing oneself to the limit in pursuit of success, typically in a career or entrepreneurial context. It is often characterized by a “never stop working” mentality and a focus on productivity and efficiency above all else.

Now let’s discuss an alternative to Hustle Culture. To begin, can you share with our readers a bit about why you are an authority on the problems that come with Hustle Culture?

For over two decades, I have worked with leaders and organizations to help them optimize their performance and potential. To many, this would be synonymous with doing more, the epitome of “hustle culture.” However, as I have researched and consulted in this space, I have learned the doing less is often more and that staying busy all the time degrades our capacity and limits our creativity and innovation.

The specific term “Hustle Culture” may have been popularized in the 2010s, but the concept behind it and the behaviors that come with it can be traced back hundreds or perhaps even thousands of years. From your vantage point, experience, or research, what were the main drivers of Hustle Culture?

There are several factors that have contributed to the rise of “hustle culture” in modern society.

• Capitalism: In capitalist societies, success is often measured by financial gain and upward mobility. This creates a competitive environment where individuals feel pressure to constantly improve and work harder to achieve success.
• Technology: With the rise of digital technology and the internet, the boundaries between work and personal life have become increasingly blurred. This has made it easier for people to work remotely and be accessible to their jobs 24/7, leading to a culture that values constant availability and productivity.
• Social media: Social media platforms have created a culture of self-promotion and personal branding, where individuals are encouraged to showcase their achievements and successes. This can create pressure to constantly hustle and present a perfect image of success to the world.
• Workforce changes: Changes in the nature of work, such as the rise of the gig economy and the decline of traditional job security, have led to a sense of uncertainty and the need to constantly hustle to stay relevant and employable.
• Cultural norms: In some cultures, hard work and dedication are highly valued and seen as necessary for success. This can contribute to a culture of hustle and productivity above all else.

These factors have contributed to the creation and perpetuation of “hustle culture,” which can lead to a culture of overwork and burnout if not balanced with other aspects of life.

I work in the marketing industry, and so I’m very cognizant of this question. What role do you see that marketing and advertising has played in creating the frenzy caused by Hustle Culture that many of us feel?

Marketing and advertising have played a significant role in creating and perpetuating the frenzy caused by “hustle culture”. Advertisers and marketers often use messaging that glorifies hard work and achievement, portraying success as the ultimate goal and implying that it can only be attained through constant hustle and dedication.

For example, marketing campaigns may use slogans like “the grind never stops” or “hustle hard” to promote products or services that are marketed to busy professionals or entrepreneurs. These messages can create a sense of pressure to work constantly and prioritize work above all other aspects of life.

Furthermore, social media influencers and celebrities often promote hustle culture as a means of achieving success and financial independence. They may showcase their lavish lifestyles and attribute their success to their relentless work ethic, further perpetuating the idea that hustle culture is necessary for success.

Overall, marketing and advertising can contribute to the creation and perpetuation of hustle culture by promoting messaging that glorifies overwork and suggests that success is only attainable through constant hustle and dedication. This can have negative effects on individuals’ mental and physical health if not balanced with other aspects of life.

Can you help articulate the downsides of Hustle Culture? Why is this an unsustainable work paradigm?

In “hustle culture,” people are encouraged to prioritize their work above all other aspects of their lives, including their physical and mental health, personal relationships, and hobbies. Those who subscribe to this culture often believe that success is directly proportional to the amount of work put in and that taking breaks or prioritizing other aspects of life is a sign of weakness or lack of dedication.

While some proponents of hustle culture argue that it leads to increased motivation and achievement, others argue that it can lead to burnout, stress, and a distorted view of work-life balance. While this approach to work may seem productive in the short term, it is ultimately unsustainable for a number of reasons.

Firstly, working long hours can lead to burnout and decreased productivity. Research has shown that working more than 50 hours a week can actually decrease productivity and increase the likelihood of making mistakes. Additionally, chronic stress and lack of sleep can lead to a host of physical and mental health problems.

Secondly, prioritizing work above all else can lead to a lack of work-life balance and strain on personal relationships. This can result in feelings of isolation and loneliness, as well as decreased motivation and job satisfaction.

Thirdly, the hustle culture mindset often prioritizes short-term gains over long-term success. This can result in a lack of strategic planning and a failure to prioritize important tasks and projects.

Ultimately, the hustle culture paradigm may result in burnout, decreased productivity, strained relationships, and a lack of long-term success. It is important for individuals and organizations to prioritize work-life balance, strategic planning, and sustainable work practices in order to ensure long-term success and well-being.

Let’s now discuss Focus, the opposite of Frenzy. Can you please share one area of your personal or business life where you simplified things and then felt less frenzied and more fulfilled? Can you please explain?

One area where I have simplified things to feel less frenzied and more fulfilled is by prioritizing and streamlining my tasks. Instead of trying to tackle an overwhelming number of tasks each day, I prioritize my to-do list each day based on what is most important, not just is most urgent. This allows me to focus on what really matters and feel a sense of accomplishment as I complete those tasks.

To streamline my tasks, I also look for ways to automate or delegate some of my work. For example, I use technology to automate repetitive tasks and I enlist the help of colleagues and assistants to take on some of the workload. This helps me focus on higher-level tasks that require my unique skills and expertise.

Another way I have simplified things is by setting realistic expectations for myself. Instead of trying to be perfect and do everything, I recognize my limitations and am more forgiving of myself when things don’t go as planned. This helps me reduce my stress levels and feel more in control of my work and life.

Overall, by prioritizing, streamlining, and setting realistic expectations, I simplify my work life and feel less frenzied and more fulfilled.

What life experiences have you adopted in your business or personal life that have left you more satisfied? Can you please explain?

As a worker who has struggled with “hustle culture,” I have come to realize that prioritizing my personal life and well-being is just as important as my professional success. Here are a few experiences that have left me more satisfied:

Setting Boundaries: I have learned to set clear boundaries between my work and personal life. This means making sure that I have time set aside for my hobbies, friends, and family. I have also learned to communicate my boundaries with my colleagues and manager, so that they are aware of when I am and am not available.

Practicing Self-Care: I have started prioritizing self-care activities such as exercise, meditation, and reading. Taking care of my physical and mental health helps me stay focused and energized during work hours.

Embracing Flexibility: I have learned to embrace the idea that work can be done in a flexible manner. This means that I can work from home or work non-traditional hours, which allows me to better balance my personal and professional life.

Pursuing Personal Development: I have started investing time in personal development activities such as learning new skills, attending workshops, and networking. These experiences have helped me grow as a person and professional, and have increased my job satisfaction.

Overall, these experiences have left me more satisfied and fulfilled in both my personal and professional life. By prioritizing my well-being and practicing self-care, I have become a more productive and engaged worker.

Okay, fantastic. Here is the main part of our interview. In your opinion, how can we break the addiction to being busy or trying to find the next big thing? How can people truly focus on tasks that make THE difference to their business and lives giving them satisfaction or life purpose alignment? Based on your experience and your area of expertise, can you please share “Five Ways To Move From Frenzy to Focused”?

Breaking the addiction to being busy and finding the next big thing requires a shift in mindset and habits. Here are five ways to move from frenzy to focused:

1. Prioritize: To truly focus on tasks that make the difference, it is important to prioritize. This means identifying the tasks that are most important to your business and life goals, and focusing your time and energy on them. Prioritizing can help you avoid getting caught up in busy work or distractions that do not align with your goals.
2. Create a Schedule: Creating a schedule can help you stay focused and organized. Schedule time for the tasks that are most important to you, and stick to the schedule as much as possible. This can help you avoid multitasking and feeling overwhelmed by the many demands on your time.
3. Practice Mindfulness: Practicing mindfulness can help you stay present and focused on the task at hand. This means paying attention to your thoughts, feelings, and surroundings in the moment, without judgment. Mindfulness can help you stay focused on your priorities, and avoid getting caught up in distractions or worries about the future.
4. Take Breaks: Taking breaks can actually increase productivity and focus. This means taking short breaks throughout the day to recharge and refocus. You might take a walk, meditate, or just step away from your work for a few minutes. This can help you stay energized and focused throughout the day.
5. Celebrate Small Wins: Celebrating small wins can help you stay motivated and focused on your goals. This means recognizing and celebrating your accomplishments, no matter how small they may seem. Celebrating small wins can help you build momentum and stay focused on the tasks that truly make a difference in your business and life.

By prioritizing, creating a schedule, practicing mindfulness, taking breaks, and celebrating small wins, you can move from frenzy to focused. These habits can help you break the addiction to being busy or finding the next big thing, and stay focused on the tasks that truly matter to your business and life goals.

How would you describe a work paradigm that is a viable alternative to Hustle Culture? What would it look like, and what would you call it?

A viable alternative to Hustle Culture is a work paradigm that prioritizes work-life balance, sustainable work practices, and employee well-being. This paradigm emphasizes the importance of achieving success and productivity through healthy habits and a positive work environment, rather than through overworking and sacrificing personal time and relationships. This work paradigm might be called “Wellness Culture” or “Sustainable Work Culture.” It would prioritize the following characteristics:

1. Work-Life Balance: Employees would be encouraged to prioritize their personal lives and well-being, with flexible scheduling and ample vacation time.
2. Employee Well-Being: The work environment would prioritize the physical and mental health of employees, with access to wellness resources and programs such as mental health support, ergonomic workstations, and healthy food options.
3. Sustainable Work Practices: Work practices would prioritize long-term success over short-term gains, with a focus on strategic planning and prioritizing important tasks and projects. Additionally, employees would be encouraged to take breaks, rest, and recharge to avoid burnout.
4. Positive Company Culture: The workplace would prioritize positive and inclusive company culture, with a focus on teamwork, communication, and employee recognition.
5. Continuous Learning and Growth: Employees would have access to opportunities for personal and professional development, including training programs, mentorship, and opportunities for advancement.

Overall, this work paradigm would emphasize the importance of balance, wellness, sustainability, and growth for both employees and the organization as a whole. By prioritizing these values, organizations can achieve long-term success while also promoting the well-being and fulfillment of their employees.

Do you have any favorite books, podcasts, or resources that have inspired you about working differently?

Here are some popular books, podcasts, and resources related to working differently that I have found helpful:

Books:

• “The 4-Hour Work Week” by Timothy Ferriss
• “Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World” by Cal Newport
• “Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones” by James Clear
• “The Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses” by Eric Ries
• “Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us” by Daniel H. Pink
• “The Future Leader: Creating & Transforming Next Gen Organizations” by Jonathan H. Westover

Podcasts:

• “WorkLife” by Adam Grant
• “The Tim Ferriss Show” by Timothy Ferriss
• “How I Built This” by NPR
• “HBR Ideacast” by Harvard Business Review
• “Entrepreneur on Fire” by John Lee Dumas
• “Human Capital Innovations (HCI) Podcast” by Jonathan H. Westover, PhD

Resources:

• TED Talks: Ideas worth spreading
• Harvard Business Review articles and blog posts
• LinkedIn Learning courses on productivity, time management, and leadership
• Medium articles on personal development and productivity
• MindTools: Essential skills for an excellent career

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can inspire.

Making a social impact in organizations through embracing sustainable workplace practices and sustainable living practices involves adopting environmentally-friendly practices in the workplace and encouraging employees to adopt similar practices in their personal lives. This can include reducing waste, conserving energy, using eco-friendly products, and implementing policies that prioritize sustainability.

By adopting sustainable workplace practices, organizations can reduce their carbon footprint, save costs on energy and waste disposal, and attract environmentally-conscious customers and employees. Encouraging employees to adopt sustainable living practices can also improve their well-being, reduce their environmental impact, and create a culture of sustainability within the organization.

Overall, embracing sustainable workplace practices and promoting sustainable living practices can help organizations make a positive social impact by reducing their environmental footprint, improving their reputation, and creating a more sustainable future for everyone.

What is the best way for our readers to continue to follow your work online?

You can find all of my books via my Amazon Author Profile and please connect with me on LinkedIn. Additionally, you can find out more about my firm, Human Capital Innovations, as well as the HCI Academy.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent on this. We wish you only continued success.

About The Interviewer: For 30 years, Drew Gerber has been inspiring those who want to change the world. Drew is the CEO of Wasabi Publicity, Inc., a full-service PR agency lauded by PR Week and Good Morning America. Wasabi Publicity, Inc. is a global marketing company that supports industry leaders, change agents, unconventional thinkers, companies and organizations that strive to make a difference. Whether it’s branding, traditional PR or social media marketing, every campaign is instilled with passion, creativity and brilliance to powerfully tell their clients’ story and amplify their intentions in the world. Schedule a free consultation at WasabiPublicity.com/Choosing-Publicity.