Health Tech: Jo Aggarwal On How Wysa’s Technology Can Make An Important Impact On Our Overall Wellness
An Interview With Dave Philistin
Safe, non-judgemental and compassionate: Most people remark how Wysa’s workplace is the first environment where they feel comfortable being themselves and as a result, can form valuable workplace friendships like nowhere before. We are proud of this sentiment and think it is very valuable. This rewards us with minimal staff attrition and amiable colleagues who make work even more enjoyable.
In recent years, Big Tech has acquired a bad rep. Of course, many tech companies are doing important work making monumental positive changes to society, health, and the environment. To highlight these, we started a new interview series about “Technology Making An Important Positive Social Impact”. We are interviewing leaders of tech companies who are creating or have created a tech product that is helping to make a positive change in people’s lives or the environment. As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Jo Aggarwal.
Jo Aggarwal is the founder and CEO of Wysa, a global leader in conversational AI for behavioral health. Previously, Aggarwal was the founding director for Technology & Innovation for a UN-backed foundation, and was the managing director of Pearson Learning Solutions in the U.K. Aggarwal has been recognized by The Healthcare Technology Report as one of the Top 25 Women Leaders in Consumer HealthTech of 2021.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory and how you grew up?
I was raised in a very simple and spiritual home in India. My father rose to become the head of the Indian Postal Service, from roots where he could not afford milk in his tea. When I was 12 years old, my father made a deal with my sister and me, promising us complete support and freedom to choose our own path in life with the understanding that once we became financially independent we were to bring three people in India above the poverty line. My father calculated that if every family were to bring three people above the poverty line, India would no longer have anyone below the poverty line.
From a young age, my father instilled in us the expectation that we could change the world. As a result, we became the first women in our family to become professionals. My sister’s work in Type 1 diabetes in resource-poor, rural settings continues to save thousands of lives. My work with Wysa, a leading artificial intelligence (AI)-based digital companion for behavioral health, certainly has its roots in these values as well, now serving 4 million individuals through 500 million conversations across 65 countries.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Launching Wysa was both a hypothesis and an experiment. My co-founder Ramakant and I had previously experienced a few faulty starts with other product launches, so our confidence for success was slightly bruised. After launching Wysa for mental health, we began working on a similar version for diabetes management, hoping to use the platform to improve adherence across any condition. One day, when Ramakant and I were holidaying in the hills, we received an email from a young girl saying, “I am 13 and I am depressed. I tried suicide. You are helping me hold on to myself. Thank you.” Ramakant and I were stunned; we hugged and we cried. As soon as we returned from our holiday, we went straight to the drawing board, aiming to solve the problem of mental health accessibility for people like this young, 13-year old girl. Since that point, Wysa has grown from 30,000 users to 4 million users and has received 180 testimonials similar to this young girl’s. The impact we are having on people’s lives is the driving force behind Wysa’s mission.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
I am grateful for my co-founder Ramakant, who is also my partner in life. Ramakant brings balance and persistence to all of my creative ventures. In 2009, I found myself with the incredible opportunity to follow through with my life’s passion — working in technology to try and fight terrorism by creating jobs for young people in conflict areas like Yemen and Iraq. At the time, Ramakant was working at Goldman Sachs, where they were offering record-breaking bonuses. Ramakant knew that this opportunity was one I had always dreamed of, so he decided to take a sabbatical from Goldman and join me in my pursuit to tackle terrorism in the Middle East. Ramakant eventually left his position to lead a microenterprise practice called Silatech, where we became partners in trying to change the world together. Without Ramakant’s support, both professionally and personally, I would not have been able to achieve the level of social impact that I have today.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“All models are wrong, some models are useful.”
One thing that I have learned in my life’s journey is the importance of pivoting, admitting to my mistakes, and taking the time to evaluate what is worth staying with and what is not. Ramakant and I often go back to this quote as a reminder to consistently re-evaluate our organization’s model as we continue to grow and evolve.
You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
I have heard that organizations reflect the traits of their founders. Sometimes I find myself experiencing imposter syndrome when I think of my successes, so maybe if I answer this question based on how I perceive Wysa as an organization, you’ll get an understanding of which traits I find instrumental to success.
Safe, non-judgemental and compassionate: Most people remark how Wysa’s workplace is the first environment where they feel comfortable being themselves and as a result, can form valuable workplace friendships like nowhere before. We are proud of this sentiment and think it is very valuable. This rewards us with minimal staff attrition and amiable colleagues who make work even more enjoyable.
Drive for momentum: At Wysa, we are okay with stumbling, but are uncomfortable with lack of momentum. Of late, we have had to combine this drive for momentum with increased focus, as momentum in multiple directions was driving us toward burnout.
Radical candor: Within our organization, we care personally and challenge directly. We choose candor over brutal honesty to encourage a kind and non-judgemental rapport that enables discussion about what might be working and what might not be working so well. It takes a healthy balance of self-acceptance and self-improvement to not be defensive and drink our own Kool-Aid, and I think we have that.
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion about the tech tools that you are helping to create that can make a positive impact on our wellness. To begin, which particular problems are you aiming to solve?
Wysa is an AI-based digital companion for behavioral health. Wysa is aiming to scale access to mental health support by providing 24/7, anonymous, high-quality care delivered via an easy-to-use app interface. Our mission is to increase awareness and accessibility to mental health support, even when people have stigma concerns, with a broad focus on providing affordable and equitable care to all.
How do you think your technology can address this?
Data has shown that 82% of individuals prefer to reveal their mental health issues to a non-human confidante — a robot. Increasing accessibility in a private, anonymous setting helps overcome the barriers created by the stigma around mental health. Wysa’s technology is based on AI Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), an innovative method of delivering CBT in a precise and personalized manner. Unique from other AI chatbots, 80% of Wysa’s conversations are free-text, empowering users to respond honestly, in their own words, creating agency in the therapeutic process. By supporting the broader behavioral health care spectrum, Wysa bypasses the need for human intervention at a subclinical level, while supporting clinical populations with greater needs through expanded access to human coaches and therapists. Research showing the efficacy of Wysa’s platform has appeared in multiple peer-reviewed publications and the platform is rated by the Organization for the Review of Care and Health Applications (ORCHA) as one of the top applications in clinical safety and effectiveness.
Can you tell us the backstory about what inspired you to originally feel passionate about this cause?
Ramakant and I launched Wysa in 2016 following my own struggle with depression. I realized how difficult it was to open up to those closest to me. I recognized the potential of mental health chatbots, but noticed the lack of effective examples on the market. The name ‘Wysa’ originated from Eliza, the first chatbot ever created — a parody of a Rogerian therapist. I wanted to build something like Eliza, but wiser, something that could listen to an individual and effectively guide them to reframe their negative thoughts. Wysa’s technology leverages AI CBT and precision engagement, a tool that senses user sentiment and adjusts responses based on its perception of what the user needs.
Five years and 700 iterations later, Wysa has helped more than 4 million people and is the preferred digital mental health partner for 30 global enterprises covering over 10 million lives, including Accenture, Aetna, and The National Health Service in the UK. The thousands of stories of transformation that people have shared after talking to Wysa have been the most meaningful and encouraging part of the work for the Wysa family and myself.
How do you think this might change the world?
Wysa’s technology scales access to mental health care by providing anyone with access to the internet or a smartphone with on-demand, 24/7, anonymous, evidence-based support. Wysa bridges the mental health care gap in three ways:
By offering every individual equitable access to the most appropriate level of mental health care possible
Driving clinical outcomes that reduce spending on mental health care
Reducing absenteeism and presenteeism and equipping our employer-partners with the necessary tools and resources required to meet mental health needs at every level, across the care spectrum.
Keeping “Black Mirror” and the “Law of Unintended Consequences” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks about this technology that people should think more deeply about?
Our team has thought very intently about the bonds people form with AI, and whether these bonds could create unhealthy, unreasonable expectations from other humans. At Wysa, we often consider how we can leverage AI to strengthen real-world relationships and create better habits, but not encourage an escape from reality. These considerations are woven into every Wysa module’s design. We have shied away from designing for ‘addictiveness’, because we recognize that this could create potential drawbacks in the long-term.
Here is the main question for our discussion. Based on your experience and success, can you please share “Five things you need to know to successfully create technology that can make a positive social impact”? (Please share a story or an example, for each.)
Be extremely honest about product market fit: It is easy to tell the story of why your product will work to the world of investors and clients, but very hard to look at the reality of whether your product has actually achieved a good market fit. The product I launched prior to Wysa was clearly not a market fit — the idea was well received, but the user funnel remained low. It took courage to tell our investors a month after we had raised money that we needed to pivot from the original product they had invested in, but in retrospect, this was the best decision we could have made.
Cater to your most difficult user: A successful technology is one that understands its most difficult user. In creating Wysa, the primary area we focused on was figuring out how to get an individual to reframe their negative thoughts. My co-founder Ramakant was one of our most difficult users. He kept stating that Wysa made him feel judged when asked to reframe his thoughts. It took us three months and more than 30 versions before it worked for him — a breakthrough that was effectively able to change his behavior and thought patterns to address an issue that had been bothering him for years.
Solve the problem: Before creating Wysa, our first product was a diagnostic platform. The platform evaluated patterns of user behavior on the phone to detect if someone was depressed. During our initial trials, we found that we could predict depression quite accurately, but in the three-month follow-up, we noticed that less than three percent of the patients were actually seeking therapy. We came to the conclusion that lack of diagnosis was not the problem, it was the lack of accessible resources and the overbearing stigma that were the biggest hurdles. We decided to pivot from our diagnostic technology to help solve this issue.
Recognize user needs: In order to develop impactful technology, it is important to recognize what the need is and make a conscious effort to address it. At Wysa, we recognize that users are yearning to be heard, rather than to be spoken to. By providing users with a 24/7 support tool that enables them to feel heard and valued, we have seen organic growth of 4 million users, achieved without any advertising spending.
Understand App Store Optimization (ASO): A major potential roadblock to the success of new applications is lack of knowledge around ASO. Understanding ASO is crucial to increasing the visibility of your application in the App Store. I highly recommend educating yourself on the different factors involved in ASO to ensure that your product is gaining as much traction as possible and that it is strategically reaching your target customer base.
If you could tell other young people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our environment or society, like you, what would you tell them?
I think we all make a positive impact on society if we choose to live consciously, compassionately and true to our valued selves. Just ask yourself this question — if you were 80-years-old, would you look back at your life with confidence that it was a life well-lived? What experience would drive you to make this conclusion? Would it be adventure, love, success, kindness? Living a life that you feel is well-lived is more important than anything you could build for others, because once you are on your path, whatever work you do will always be in harmony with the world around you.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)
Naval Ravikant, also known as The Angel Philosopher, a remarkable source of wisdom and knowledge for startup founders. I would be honored to share a meal with him!
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Follow me on LinkedIn or twitter.
Thank you so much for joining us. This was very inspirational, and we wish you continued success in your important work.
