How Wendy Nystrom Of Environmental Social Justice Is Helping to Promote Sustainability and Climate Justice

An Interview With Monica Sanders

People will yell at you. Ignore them. Climate deniers exist. They have a right to their opinion, they do not have a right to upset you.

According to the University of Colorado, “Those who are most affected and have the fewest resources to adapt to climate change are also the least responsible for the greenhouse gas emissions — both globally and within the United States.” Promoting climate justice is an incredibly important environmental responsibility that is slowly becoming more and more recognized. In this interview series, we are talking to leaders who are helping to promote sustainability and climate justice. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Wendy Nystrom.

Wendy Nystrom is an Environmental Subject Matter Expert and the host of Environmental Social Justice (ESJ), an online webcast that bridges the chasm between environmental and climate experts and the general public.

She holds a MA/BA Combined degree in Geology/GeoChemistry from Boston University and a Certificate in Sustainability from UCLA and has spent her career focused on pollution, environmental risk management, professional liability, and climate change where her combined knowledge in science, technology and risk has provided her with a unique view into companies’ exposures and prevention practices. This evolved background is what ultimately triggered her desire to focus on sustainability using communication and outreach to focus on advancing existing technologies to reduce our negative externalities and enhance sustainable development as well as social justice / DEI.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit. Can you tell us a bit about how you grew up?

As a family we moved a bit. I was born outside of Los Angeles, we moved to Avon, CT briefly before settling in Grosse Pointe, MI when I was 6. In that short time, I experienced wildfires, snow, exploring forests for hours and then ending up in suburbia. Michigan is where I consider myself to be “from” and impacted my perception on life as I witnessed the dividing line between Detroit and Grosse Pointe. That greatly affected me, but I felt powerless to do anything.

Everyone has a cataclysmic moment or marker in their life which propels them to take certain actions, a “why”. What is your why?

Growing up in Michigan I was terribly shy. I looked at my feet and only spoke to only a few people. My favorite subject was geology and ended up getting both a BA and an MA in it. When people asked my family what I did, they said “Wendy studied dirt and rocks”. That was extremely hurtful and embarrassing, but I decided to own it. So, when people ask me what I do, I say “I work in dirt and rocks”.

I spent 20 years in the environmental industry, primarily in insurance/risk management. It wasn’t until very recently that I was “over” the corporate world. People love to talk about the environment, but no one does anything about the environment.

So, I quit.

I enrolled at UCLA’s sustainability certificate program and learned about sustainability from the ground up.

Sustainability blended very well with my dirt and rock background, I had a deeper understanding of the science behind it that most and, believe it or not, my environmental insurance background offered me the corporate insight as well.

This is where my “cataclysmic why” kicked in. I was at a networking event, yes, staring at my feet, and a woman approached me and said “Please don’t hate me because I use paper towels.” I immediately thought, why would I ever hate you?

It was at this moment I realized that environmental people suck at communication. We love jargon, acronyms, and some love to yell at people.

I knew I needed to change this. Engage people who want to learn about climate without making them feel bad about themselves.

You are currently leading an organization that is making a difference for our planet. Can you tell us a bit about what you and your organization are trying to change?

I was finishing my Sustainability Certificate at UCLA when Covid hit. Any hope of finding a job evaporated. I spent a lot of time watching webcasts, being interviewed on webcasts, and virtual networking. I quickly realized; I can do this.

I forcibly grabbed two friends to join me as co-hosts and I launched “Environmental Social Justice” in July of 2020.

It wasn’t great. SO, I switched it up, I emailed people in my network and asked them to be guests. Since we were all still in lockdown, almost everyone was available. I had NASDAQ, Moody’s, Toyota, Hyundai, the County of Los Angeles, you name it everyone wanted to talk. This led to inventors and entrepreneurs who were developing new technologies, platforms, and models.

It was thrilling and educational. I had experts I could ask questions of all day long. I learned more from an interview than from any number of textbooks I could have hunkered down with.

And, I only had one rule- No Jargon, No Acronyms, they are exclusionary. I want everyone to understand what we are talking about otherwise the general public will not care and will not buy in to what needs to change.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your company or organization?

I am still quite small, but I was attending a Wildfire Conference hosted by “After the Fire” in Sonoma, CA. As usual, I kept to myself and was having coffee outside during a break when a man approached me. He asked me if I was Wendy Nystrom. I said “Yes”, thinking maybe we crossed paths in insurance. He said “I love your webcast, I watch it all the time”. That was exactly when I knew I was reaching people.

The second-best story was when a friend of mine was at a networking event in Los Angeles, he ran into an “environmental person” so he started telling her about this great webcast that communicated climate and sustainability in a friendly, easy to understand manner. She interrupted him and said “Do you mean “Environmental Social Justice?” I’m going to be on it in 2 weeks!”

This is what keeps me going.

None of us can be successful without some help along the way. Did you have mentors or cheerleaders who helped you to succeed? Can you tell us a story about their influence?

I did not have mentors, in fact I have never really had a mentor. My biggest cheerleader is my husband with my in-laws as a close second.

Whenever I would put myself down or say, “I can’t”, “I’m stupid, etc.” my husband would interrupt me with “No one talks shit about my wife including my wife” This is the type of support that is needed and matters.

My in-laws were always encouraging me to just “try”, “give it a shot”, “take a minute and see what happens”. Unfortunately, my own family did not do this, so I rarely share what I am working on with them.

Thank you for that. Let’s now move to the central part of our discussion. Let’s start with a basic definition of terms so that everyone is on the same page. What does climate justice mean to you? How do we operationalize it?

I pulled the below from the UN’s Environment Programme (Which apparently pulled it from Wikipedia

“Climate justice is a term used for framing global warming as an ethical and political issue, rather than one that is purely environmental or physical in nature. This is done by relating the effects of climate change to concepts of justice, particularly environmental justice and social justice and by examining issues such as equality, human rights; collective rights, and the historical responsibilities for climate.”

I like to explain things as simply as possible. Climate Justice is demonstrating that everyone is negatively impacted by our warming environment. Whether you refer to it as global warming, climate change or simply climate. The Earth is getting hotter, storms are more frequent and catastrophic and ultimately, those living in more distressed communities are the most adversely affected. We need to change this- We all need to focus on what is “right” not what is “easy” or “profitable”.

Science is telling us that we have 7–10 years to make critical decisions about climate change. What are three things you or your organization are doing to help?

It has been my experience that if you cannot effectively communicate, your audience will not engage. This means, no yelling, screaming, shaming, or belittling anyone.

For example, a business owner may not experience the negative impact to their health from pollution, but they will understand that their supply chain will change, their employees may not be available to work, or their employees may have to move. This is an unfortunate fact.

For a family living in a distressed community, they may not feel empowered to express their concern about pollution and how it will affect their health or their children’s health. We need to help these people feel Heard and Seen.

Using jargon, science speak, or other terms is exclusionary. Many may feel embarrassed for not understanding, which could lead to resentment or helplessness.

We need to do better by empowering everyone, which is why I conduct interviews not only from multi billion corporations and the strides they are making in circular economy or ESG, but startups, entrepreneurs, and nonprofits. We need to have everyone invited to the same table to speak, to be seen to be heard and most importantly, be held accountable.

Are there three things the community, society, or politicians can do to help you in your mission?

Politicians need to stop having consultants conduct studies and write reports.

Everyone needs to stop having conferences and meetings. Stop turning Climate into a networking event for expense accounts.

We know what is wrong. We know what needs to be done.

Talk less, Act more.

How would you articulate how a business can become more profitable by being more sustainable and more environmentally conscious? Can you share a story or example?

When a business decides it needs to become sustainable, there will be an initial cost. This may be new equipment for an office, or equipment for manufacturing. What is important to focus on is the long-term net effect.

If your building wastes energy through poor insulation, heating, cooling, and/or water efficiency, you are wasting money. A small influx of funds to upgrade the structure will ultimately save in utility bills.

If you work in the natural gas industry, you can also make yourself more sustainable by testing all lines for leaks. This will be an initial expense to test run all lines, but ultimately you will accomplish 2 very important outcomes.

1. You will stop leaking pollution into the atmosphere, thus improving your companies Social and Environmental Justice metrics.

2. You will stop losing unaccounted for gas, thus increasing profit.

Another well-known case study is Interface Carpet. They were one of the first sustainable businesses and proved that it can be done, profitably.

A little innovation, a little technology and a little grit is all we need to get started.

This is the signature question we ask in most of our interviews. What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started promoting sustainability and climate justice” and why? Please share a story or example for each.

1 . Not everyone is an expert. I have worked in the environmental industry for over 25 years. I am still learning. I have met too many people who are only modestly informed claim to be at the top of their field. Never underestimate yourself.

Example: I met someone who claimed to be an ESG expert, consulting for companies. Impressed by this (And a little jealous of their success) I asked where they studied, how they learned. They responded that they always recycled cans as a kid and always loved the environment. When I pressed about the ESG knowledge, they said they “Read a book”, looked me directly in the eye and said “I consider myself an expert now”….

2 . People will yell at you. Ignore them. Climate deniers exist. They have a right to their opinion, they do not have a right to upset you.

Example: I had someone tell me I was personally responsible for the mass layoffs at tech firms this year because I do not support petroleum as a viable energy source. None of that makes sense. But they screamed at me for it.

3 . Study. Technology changes constantly. Keep up to date. Read. Take online courses. TCFD have many that are free.

Example: When I first started discussing transportation and sustainability, I was raving about compressed natural gas (CNG). CNG is still a viable source, but most people had moved on to electric or hydrogen. I looked silly. I learned quick to keep up.

4 . Every industry is different, terminology is different. Do NOT let people belittle you.

Example: I attended a lecture at a law firm where one very important woman was being interviewed. I was excited as I always looked up to this woman and she now held a very powerful position. The person who interviewed her started down the jargon road. One term I was not familiar with. I think she saw me blanch and look wide eyed, because she started to laugh at me.

I panicked. The second the interview portion was over I bolted. No meet and greet for me. I was too stupid. I went home and googled the jargon as phonetically as possible. It turns out it was a methodology I used all the time….I just called it something else (a correct term, just different)

5 . Get your supporters. I have worked in the environmental world for a long time, we “dirt people” always stuck up for each other. That has changed. Now this is a business, ESG is involved. Corporations are involved. Wall Street is involved. The room changed.

Find your people, support them and make sure they support you. This is very important.

Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)

Living:

Oprah. I want to know how she did it. She stuck up for herself, she fought every battle possible, dealt with significant bullies, and she still pulled herself up with dignity and grace.

Passed:

Julia Child. She may have just taught cooking, but she let you know that mistakes are ok. Just pick it up, put it back in the pan, no one needs to know. Move on.

How can our readers continue to follow your work online?

I am primarily on LinkedIn as Wendy Nystrom Lloyd, I also have a YouTube channel of all my interviews just look for “Environmental Social Justice”

This was very meaningful, thank you so much. We wish you only continued success on your great work!

Thank you! This has been a lot of fun, hopefully I wasn’t too long winded…

About the Interviewer: Monica Sanders JD, LL.M, is the founder of “The Undivide Project”, an organization dedicated to creating climate resilience in underserved communities using good tech and the power of the Internet. She holds faculty roles at the Georgetown University Law Center and the Tulane University Disaster Resilience Leadership Academy. Professor Sanders also serves on several UN agency working groups. As an attorney, Monica has held senior roles in all three branches of government, private industry, and nonprofits. In her previous life, she was a journalist for seven years and the recipient of several awards, including an Emmy. Now the New Orleans native spends her time in solidarity with and championing change for those on the frontlines of climate change and digital divestment. Learn more about how to join her at: www.theundivideproject.org