Jaclyn Hales, Ash Lendzion, Nick Blair Wilfong and Marilee Stafford On 5 Things You Need To Know To Create a Fantastic Podcast

An Interview with Karen Mangia

We learned that the best model for releasing episodes was all at once so people could binge listen. Season 1 we didn’t do that and people dropped off. Season 2 we dropped the episodes all at once and not only did people finish the season they went back and listened to season 1 again! The best way to monetize it would be making it available on all platforms, free, with ads. We tried the subscription route for a while but had way more success making it available to all.

As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Jaclyn Hales, Ash Lendzion, Nick Blair Wilfong and Marilee Stafford.

Jaclyn Hales (Co-Creator, Executive Producer, Director, Writer for The Bystanders Podcast).

Jaclyn Hales is a writer, director, producer, and actor. Her career began when she landed the lead role in the Indie feature UNICORN CITY (2010), winning her a Best Actress award at the LA Comedy Festival. This led to her appearing in several more Films and TV shows including FX’s LEGION (Jean Smart, Jemaine Clement), HBO’s MOSAIC (Garrett Hedlund, Sharon Stone), and CHRISTMAS EVE (Patrick Stewart). Best known for her series regular roles on BYUtv’s EXTINCT (2017) and Roku’s CYPHER (2021).

Ash Lendzion (Co-Creator, Executive Producer, Director, Writer).

Ash Lendzion studied acting at The University of Washington School of Drama in Seattle before moving to Los Angeles. In addition to acting, she has written, directed, and produced viral content for Funny or Die and YouTube. Ash can also be seen in Harmony Korine’s cult feature film SPRING BREAKERS (Selena Gomez, Ashley Benson).

Nick Blair Wilfong (Executive Producer, Writer).

Nick Blair Wilfong is an actor, writer, and producer originally from West Virginia. Nick’s career began in community theater; his first role was the masochistic dental patient in Little Shop of Horrors. After moving to Los Angeles at age 19 he began acting in independent film where he had the chance to work with and learn from industry greats such as director/actress Helen Shaver and Lee Meriwether who played Catwoman in the original Batman movie. Nick has written, produced, and performed in comedic content with close friends, and fellow Bystanders writers/producers, Ash Lendzion and Heather Morris for years. He can currently be heard as the voice of Sherry in The Bystanders Season 2.

Marilee Stafford (Executive Producer).

Marilee Stafford is a producer and CEO of TBD Productions LLC. She has executive produced the short film Silky Butterstone, Moon Manor (now streaming on Amazon), and The Bystanders Podcast (Season 1 and Season 2). She is also the founder/owner of AMJava coffee, a former partner/director in a DC Area Sports Company. She received her BS degree in Education and Business and volunteers at the Humane Rescue Alliance (DC) animal rescue/shelter.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would love to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit of your “personal backstory?” What is your background, and what eventually brought you to your particular career path and to producing a podcast?

Jaclyn: Hi, and thank you so much for having me! I’ve been an actress since I was 5 years old doing plays for my local theater and always knew I would eventually make it out to Los Angeles to pursue acting professionally. in 2009 I finally made the move and have been fortunate enough to find success. It was when I met Ash Lendzion that I started writing and switching gears to more of the production side of things. We were joking on a hike one day, in are dark humorous sort of way, about the infamous bystanders who stood by and watched Kitty Genovese get stabbed in the middle of her apartment in the 1964. It suddenly dawned on us that a fictional comedic TV show about the bystanders who did nothing could be really funny. We worked for months outlining an episodic show which then turned into a feature film instead. Heather Morris, who was one of Ash’s best friends, told us she thought it would make an excellent Podcast and would be way easier to get made. Then BAM! the pandemic hit. Never was there a better time to produce a podcast then when everyone is stuck at home looking for work. The three of us quickly got to work and within a year we had finished an 8 episode scripted dark comedy podcast called The Bystanders, starring Jane Lynch, Kristin Chenoweth, Ed Westwick, and so many more!

Ash: I grew up doing local theatre in Olympia, WA. I then studied acting at The University of Washington in Seattle. When I graduated, I knew I didn’t want a 9 to 5 job doing something I hated so I moved to Los Angeles to try my hand at acting. I soon started writing and producing my own content and it eventually led to partnering with Jaclyn Hales to create The Bystanders Podcast, which we also both act in as well as Lexi Hades and Sara Fatbottom.

Nick: Thank you for having me! I grew up in West Virginia and moved to Los Angeles when I was 19 in order to pursue acting. I was booking some indie projects and had the opportunity to work with, and learn from, great talents like director/actress Helen Shaver and Lee Meriwether who played Catwoman in the original Batman movie. The more I auditioned the more I began to realize that, while some scripts were very funny, a significant number weren’t. Now, while I like to believe I can find the comedy in anything, I realized that if I wanted to highlight my personal comedic strengths, the ones that make me stand out from the crowd, I would have to create my own content. Around that time I began writing, producing, and acting in sketches with my friends Ash Lendzion and Heather Morris. A couple of years later Ash mentioned a scripted podcast she was creating with Jaclyn Hales and that Heather was involved as well. I thought it was a great idea so I came on board as an executive producer. Once Season 2 became official I was approached by Ash, Heather, and Jaclyn and asked to be a writer as well. I also play the role of Sherry this season.

Marilee: I made a major pivot during Covid from running a successful company in DC but have always wanted to be a producer after watching Slumdog Millionaire. I wanted to be the one who helped put out a story and found the perfect team to start this new direction. There is a quote I love — “Producer is someone with a dream. I don’t write, I don’t direct, I don’t act, I don’t compose music and I don’t design costumes. What do I do…I make things happen.”

Can you share a story about the most interesting thing that has happened to you since you started this podcast?

Jaclyn: The most interesting thing that has happened to me since starting this podcast would have to be the massive amount of self development that took place as a result. Becoming a bonified writer, director, producer was never something I planned on becoming, but this podcast really showed me what I’m capable of. Also, learning to co-create can be challenging and this project has helped all of us learn to work with other people in a more collaborative way to ultimately make the best product.

Ash: Kathleen Turner called us weird.

Nick: We flew to Nashville and got to spend a few days working at the legendary Blackbird Studios having the show mixed in Dolby Atmos. The client list on Blackbird’s website is insane and extremely humbling. People like Dolly Parton, Taylor Swift, Blake Shelton, Neil Young, Miley Cyrus, Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, Bob Segar, Reba McEntire, and so many more.

Marilee: For me, everything has been the most interesting. I have always believed the best teacher is just doing it. Throw yourself into something and learn as you move forward.

It has been said that our mistakes can be our greatest teachers. Can you share a story about the biggest or funniest mistake you made when while creating or producing a podcast? Can you tell us what lesson or takeaways you learned from that?

Jaclyn: We were constantly learning, adjusting, pivoting from our mistakes and it honestly has made us so much better. One story that comes to mind was our estimate of how long it would take to sound mix all 6 episodes in Dolby surround sound in Nashville. We guessed about 3 days so we all flew out from LA to sit in the studio and watch the magic happen for this final step. We quickly realized this was going to take a bit longer… a couple days longer. The problem was our mixer was leaving the country in about 48 hrs. Luckily I had already planned to stay in Nashville a few more days so I stayed behind and sat in the studio with our mixer for 20 hours straight till we got it done!

Ash: Back to the legendary Kathleen Turner, our production was based in LA and Kathleen was recording in a NYC studio. When Kathleen arrived, no scripts were to be found anywhere. We assured her, we sent the scripts weeks ago. We came to realize that we sent digital scripts, Kathleen works with printed scripts. After that, we never showed up to a recording session without printed scripts again. It’s simple, but it goes a long way.

Nick: This actually happened when I was cast in an indie web series years ago, but I think it applies to every type of production. My co-star and I were waiting for the crew to reset for the next shot. It was a small crew and it was late so we were like let’s be nice and take the trash out while everyone is busy. It was one of those giant plastic trash cans and it had a very heavy bag in it. We use our combined strength to carry it out to the dumpster and as we start to dump it we hear clink clink clink clink. It turns out it wasn’t trash, we dumped an entire bag full of sterling silver props into the dumpster. Like enough for dinner at Buckingham Palace. About that time we were called to set and someone from the crew had to get into the dumpster and pick it all out. We tried to make their job easier and ended up making it so much harder. Lesson being, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, stick to your job. Also, don’t store your finest silver in a trash can.

How long have you had your podcast and how many shows have you aired so far?

Jaclyn: Season one of The Bystanders released May 2021. Season two released June 2023.

Ash: The Bystanders Season 1 was released in May 2021 with 8 episodes. Season 2 aired in June 2023 with 6 episodes. Each season has a new cast with a new story.

Nick: The show first went into production during the pandemic. 14 episodes of The Bystanders have aired over the course of two seasons. 8 episodes in Season 1 and 6 episodes in Season 2.

Marilee: This is our second season and all episodes are now released and can be found on all platforms with ads. A paid Apple subscription will also let you listen without ads if you so desire.

What are the main takeaways, lessons or messages that you want your listeners to walk away with after listening to The Bystanders?

Jaclyn: More than anything I think a sense of awareness is what we ultimately try to get across. Rather than dismissing the world around you, be engaged and connect with people. Do something!

Ash: First, I want listeners to have a good time. The Bystanders is a silly story with a lot of heart and hopefully they’ll giggle at it as much as I do. Second, the heart of The Bystanders is essentially to do something if someone needs help. There are a myriad of ways to do that in every situation, just don’t be a total bystander.

Nick: Things aren’t always black and white. It’s not as simple as, did you do something to help someone or not. I tend to be a helper, but other things have to be taken into account. A parent who has their child with them when something goes down is going to be primarily focused on their child’s safety. Every bystander scenario is different and has to be approached on a case by case basis. That said, every choice we make on this Earth has a ripple effect and we have to be able to live with those choices.

Marilee: I would like our audience to walk away feeling they had a quality podcast experience and that the time invested in listening was well worth it. If they feel inclined to be more aware of the Bystander effect and be willing to step into a situation where they could make a difference that’s an added bonus.

In your opinion, what makes your podcast binge-listenable? What do you think makes your podcast unique from the others in your category? What do you think is special about you as a producer, writer and director, your cast, and your content?

Jaclyn: Our podcast is so easy to binge and arguably should be binged because it leaves you needing to know more with each episode and it’s funny. Who doesn’t like to laugh? This podcast is unique because the production design is absolutely top notch. From the music scored by Torry Cummins, to the sound effects designed by Tim Mckeown, to the editing and mixing by Alex Carter, you won’t find a more immersive piece of art for your ears quite like it. Not to mention there are very few scripted comedic podcasts out there.

Ash: The Bystanders is bingeable not only for the hilarious story and acting, but for the amazing sound design by Alex Carter and Tim McKeown and the incredible musical score by Tory Cummins. Listeners are immediately transported into their imagination as the opening score feels like the curtains opening for the beginning of a play. Our podcast is unique because of the way it sounds — we mixed it in Dolby Atmos at Blackbird Studios in Nashville. What I think is special about our team is the amount of detail and hard work put into every aspect of this audio drama. The talent shows and I feel very lucky to work with such an amazing group.

Nick: The Bystanders is packed full of details to keep the listener engaged and wanting to know more. The sound design is next level. You’re fully immersed in the world. I’ve had multiple people tell me that every time they go back and listen they uncover new things. We have an incredible star-studded cast this season. Kathleen Turner, Margaret Cho, Beth Dover, Joe Lo Truglio, Wayne Knight, Darren Criss, Jon Gries, Luke Cook, and Jane Lynch returns as the narrator. As far as I go, I am an idea guy and problem solver. I can crank out one-liners and riff with the best of them. Comedy comes naturally to me. The world can feel heavy and it’s very fulfilling to give people a brief reprieve. The Bystanders does that.

Marilee: Season 2 is pretty extraordinary. Between the incredible cast and the sound engineering in Atmos Dolby Sound you really feel like you are experiencing something special. This scripted podcast is unique I think because of those 2 factors…cast and sound. As a producer, it’s my job to make things happen and keep the team motivated and positive and I have always been able to project that and the team feels that support. I try to take as much off the writers plate so all they need to do is create.

What resources do you get your inspiration for materials from when writing a podcast?

Jaclyn: Season 1 was inspired by the Kitty Genovese story in 1964. This poor woman was stabbed to death in the middle of her apartment and none of her neighbors helped. Season 2 we completely turned on its head and went for a bystander story with a revengeful twist. The plan is for each season to have a brand new story with brand new bystanders.

Ash: From real life and what people are up to. Most of the unbelievable stories stem from some real situation. For example, the premise of Season 1 of The Bystanders is based on the Kitty Genovese story. Life is wild, it’s perfect inspiration. I also love what Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Lee Sung Jin, and the guys of Wet Hot American Summer are up to. So many talented people to learn from and be inspired by.

Nick: I grew up in a small town and there are plenty of great stories. Sometimes I will tell Ash things and she will be like, “you’re making that up, there was not a man named Shitty Boots who looked like Santa Clause in your hometown.” Oh, but there was. RIP Boots. Court shows, like Judge Judy, are also great for character ideas. My humor is derived from a million different people and projects I admire. Also trauma I’m sure. Some people are put off by laughing about difficult things, but I think it’s the difficult things that we need to be laughing about. Bring some light into it. The rest is usually channeled from the ether.

Ok fantastic. Let’s now shift to the main questions of our discussion. Is there someone in the scripted podcasting world who you think is a great model for how to run a really fantastic podcast?

Jaclyn: Yeah… us lol. We felt like pioneers a lot of the time because of how little references are out there. Especially in the comedic realms. A lot of trial and error but even just from season 1 to season 2 there’s an obvious increase in production value which came from learning from ourselves basically.

Ash: Scripted podcasts are still new and a bit of the wild west right now. If someone has it down, I would love to pick their brain.

What are the ingredients that make that podcast so successful? If you could break that down into a blueprint, what would that blueprint look like?

Jaclyn: 1.) Write something that you’re proud of. It all starts with the writing. If you’re excited about the story you’re trying to tell then the rest will be so much easier. 2.) Let your script attract your team of actors, editors, producers. Everyone wants to work on a great project and again, it all starts on the page. 3.) Once your team is built, go forth and do until it’s done. You may not know how, what’s next, or if people will like it, but if you like it and you get it done…success!!

Ash: I think the most important ingredient is good content. I can only speak for scripted, but what is the story that you’re trying to tell and why? Does it excite you to work on it and listen to it? Jaclyn and I brought on the hilarious Nick Blair Wilfong and Heather Morris as writers for Season 2 and we were cracking up as we were writing and couldn’t wait to actually hear it. The next important ingredient is a team who knows what they’re doing to get the job done. For us, that was our fantastic sound design team. We knew it would be successful when we all had listened to it 10000000 times and were still laughing. If you love your work, it’s a good sign.

Can you share with the readers 5 things you need to know to create an extremely successful podcast?

Jaclyn: 1.) Good writers. Ash Lendzion and I wrote season 1 and were very proud of our work. We meticulously combed through that story and each character for years. For season 2 we needed to shorten our timeline and we decided to bring on Heather Morris and Nick Blair Wilfong to speed things up and add even more creative masterminds to it all. 2.) Good director(s). Ash and I directed season 1 as well but for season 2 decided to not only co-direct but take on a few episodes by ourselves and gave Heather Morris an episode for her directorial debut! It was so nice to know we could divide and conquer like that. 3.) Be patient. You’ll need it. There will be mis understandings but just remember everyone has the same common goal! 4.) When you make a mistake, pivot, don’t wallow. 5.) Enjoy it. If you enjoy it, others will.

Ash: 1. a budget — it’s hard to get talent like Kathleen Turner, Margaret Cho, and Kristen Chenoweth without money. Crowdfunding is a great option, we did this for season 1 and it’s what got us off the ground. For Season 2, we were so lucky to bring on Marilee Stafford as Executive Producer to help take this thing to the next level. 2. a bigger budget — you want talented crew in your corner too, they cost. 3. hard work and perseverance — I know this sounds like advice from your little league coach, but it takes time to create the thing and build an audience to listen. 4. Marketing — getting the word out about your masterpiece is super important, don’t underestimate this step. 5. Excitement — let it be your guiding light when it seems like there is a lot to do and you have no clue what to do next, go back to what makes you freaking excited to be doing it in the first place. For me, it was a chance to act. Getting to play a character in something that I had helped write was so much fun and I would do it again and again for just that.

Nick: 1. Set and maintain high standards from start to finish. When you think your script is ready, it’s probably not. Do a few more drafts.

2. Take your time outlining. We knew the world extremely well before we ever started writing.
3. Aim high when casting. Reach out to people you think will say no, sometimes they’ll surprise you. If you don’t ask you’ll never know.
4. Spend time, and money if you can, on marketing. I can’t stress this enough. Whether you have a decent budget or are taking a more grassroots approach, get it in front of people constantly. Don’t be afraid to get creative.
5. Have a plan for the rollout. If you’re self distributing there’s a lot to learn. Get ahead of the game. Learn the different platforms. Determine if you want to release weekly or all at once. Always have a strategy in place before taking action.

Can you share some insight from your experience about the best ways to 1) increase listeners, 2) produce it in a professional way, 3) encourage engagement, 4) the best way to monetize it?

Jaclyn: We learned that the best model for releasing episodes was all at once so people could binge listen. Season 1 we didn’t do that and people dropped off. Season 2 we dropped the episodes all at once and not only did people finish the season they went back and listened to season 1 again! The best way to monetize it would be making it available on all platforms, free, with ads. We tried the subscription route for a while but had way more success making it available to all.

Ash: 1) To increase listeners, I go back to Marketing. You may have an incredible piece of work, but no one knows about it. Marketing helps to get the word out. 2) to produce it in a professional way may take some experience in production. There are a lot of questions for a producer to try to make the answer a “yes” to, it takes some art. I come from Event Production and I am so grateful to have the knowledge. 3) Social Media is great for encouraging engagement. We learned from crowdfunding season 1 that people love to feel a part of something. It takes work, but interacting with the people who are showing up to listen goes a long way. Once you get word-of-mouth going, things can go viral. 4) The best way to monetize has been a journey for us. Our budget quadrupled for season 2 and we knew we had to try our best to get that back. However, the podcast world is still free in people’s minds so why would they pay for this? We originally went the subscription route, but our podcast is unique in the sense that it isn’t a weekly show with a host, it’s a season of work that takes a year to complete. How do we charge for that? We are back to monetizing through ads, which unfortunately, is slow-going.

Nick: 1. One of the best forms of advertising is still word of mouth. Give your listeners a quality product and more listeners will come. Set a clear narrative for the show. Make sure people know what they are getting and keep the conversation going. Don’t let momentum stall. Get it in front of people even if you have to email 1000 people personally.
2. This goes back to maintaining standards. Buy, rent, or borrow professional equipment. Hire a sound mixer. Make sure that every single person who engages with the production in any capacity is having a positive experience and leaves feeling valued.
3. Know your audience. Give people a sense of belonging. Interact with fans of the show. Show your appreciation. Put call to action buttons everywhere you can.
4. Focus on the quality of your work and building your listenership. There are companies who will help connect you with advertisers once the numbers are there.

Because of your position and work, you are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the greatest among of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 😊

Jaclyn: There are so many movements worth promoting, but lately I’ve been very aware of the state of our oceans. It’s largely untalked about because it feels like there are greater issues but what people don’t understand is that if the ocean ecosystems collapse, so does life on earth so…

Ash: Eliminating plastic. I love planet Earth too much.

Nick: Human Rights issues are always in need of attention. Any cause that leaves people more free than they previously were is a cause I can get behind. Listen to those who are different from you; their needs, their hopes, their fears. Let your guard down and really listen.

How can our readers follow you and the podcast online?

Jaclyn: My IG handle is jaclynhales@gmail.com, our podcast handle is @the_bystanders_podcast. You can listen on any podcast platform! Or you can download commercial free from our website www.thebystanderspodcast.com

Ash: The Bystanders Podcast can be listened to wherever you podcast and can be found on Instagram at The_Bystanders_Podcast

Nick: The show’s Instagram is @the_bystanders_podcast. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook @nickblairwilfong.

Thank you so much for sharing your time and your excellent insights. We wish you continued success.

Jaclyn: Thank you!

Ash: Thank you for having me! I wish you the same xx

Nick: Thank you! I wish the same for you!

About The Interviewer: Karen Mangia is one of the most sought-after keynote speakers in the world, sharing her thought leadership with over 10,000 organizations during the course of her career. As Vice President of Customer and Market Insights at Salesforce, she helps individuals and organizations define, design and deliver the future. Discover her proven strategies to access your own success in her fourth book Success from Anywhere and by connecting with her on LinkedIn and Twitter.