Johanna B. Voss: How To Be Great At Sales Without Seeming Salesy

Listening and asking open ended questions is the magic combo. When asking strategic, engaging, open ended questions, people will tell you exactly what you need + want to hear. Doing this will make it seem more like a conversation vs a “salesy, pushy” interaction with an agenda.

As a part of my series about how to be great at closing sales without seeming pushy, obnoxious, or salesy, I had the pleasure of interviewing Johanna Voss.

Johanna B. Voss is a talent manager, trusted by social media influencers who want clarity on how to build their brands, grow their businesses, earn their worth and plan strategically for the future. On behalf of her clients, she’s closed over one million dollars of brand deals, partnerships and speaking engagements. Negotiation is something she thoroughly enjoys, be it for her clients, friends or with strangers.

Thank you for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us the “backstory” about what brought you to this career path?

When I became an entrepreneur in 2011 as a Nutrition Coach, never in a million years did I ever think my business would evolve to founding a Talent Agency. Yet here I am, loving every minute of the work that I do negotiating for my clients, building relationships with brands and being an extra set of eyes and ears for my talent.

I’m convinced that being a Talent Manager was always my destiny. Prior to being a Talent Manager, I was an outsourced COO for female solopreneur small businesses. Strategy and project management are also strengths of mine so I did a lot of consulting in that arena as well. A woman who came to me for strategy help became my first Influencer client, linking me from one chapter of my business to another. I speak about her below as she was the one who really put the Talent Agency into motion.

Can you share with our readers the most interesting or amusing story that occurred to you in your career so far? Can you share the lesson or take away you took out of that story?

Oh yes, this is a great story because the lesson came through loud and clear!

A brand reached out to a client of mine, wanting to partner with her. They requested 4 blog posts and some additional items with a budget around $1500, which was severely under her rate. It would have been so easy to say no, delete the email and move on. If a brand has $1500 and my client’s rate is closer to $10,000 for the project, I wouldn’t be confident that they could come up that much in budget.

As I tell all my clients, I’ll bark up every tree because you just never know. In my reply to the brand, I of course thanked them for reaching out, asked how they had found my client and shared what her rate was for the project. I made sure to convey how much she would genuinely love to work together.

They got my email, told me to hang on a minute and came back within 24 hours meeting my budget request. Truthfully my client and I were stunned! Turns out the brand really wanted to work with my client and found a way to make it happen.

The obvious lesson here is ask, because you just never know! It’s the crux of my role as a talent manager to always ask for what we want. That’s one of the best examples so far of it really working out.

Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?

Great timing on this question, Yes, I recently launched a new strategy session for influencers. This day long intensive strategy session is designed to teach influencers exactly how to pitch a brand, build long term relationships with an agency, turn product offers into paying opportunities, exactly what they can say in negotiations with a brand without bumbling one’s words or feeling awkward, what their media kit should look like and how to tweak their website for best results.

I’ve been in the talent management space for a few years now. My perspective is unique as I work closely with influencers and simultaneously have candid conversations with agencies about upcoming campaigns. This allows me to see behind the scenes a bit and understand more of how this business works. I have a sense of how agencies find talent, what they like to see in a media kit, how they like to receive budgets and what they really mean when they say certain things.

The more time I spend talking to influencers who aren’t my clients, the more I see how they have no idea how to negotiate or close deals. Understandably they are operating in a vacuum of putting out a pitch and wondering why it didn’t land. Or saying yes to a campaign without knowing the possibility of earning more. Influencers without an agent don’t know the best way to sell themselves or understand that the sales cycle is a marathon not a sprint.

My Influencer Strategy Session gives any influencer who isn’t yet earning 6 figures, the exact scripts, next steps and how-to understanding to earn more, build their brand and expand their network.

I know it’s helpful because I have seen people put these tools to work immediately and tell me 24 hours later, they were able to negotiate for more money or signed the best partnership to date.

Influencer marketing is a bit of a wild west space (which I appreciate as I’m based in Denver!) and a lot of people are trying to figure it out as they go. Having someone cut through all the noise and give you the framework, is invaluable. And as 97.5% of the people I speak with are women, this means the world to me. I’m motivated to do what I do to help women earn more, which builds their confidence and supports their local economy. We hold up the sky, as Mao Zedong said.

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?

I’m so grateful to Lorraine C. Ladish because she pulled me in the direction of becoming a talent agent. Prior to founding my talent agency, I was doing operations, project management and strategy work. Lorraine, who is an Influencer, hired me to do a deep dive with her into her business, to be another set of eyes and ears to help take it to the next level.

While in Florida with her, a couple brands reached out and she asked me to reply, moonlighting as her manager. I said yes, asked for 3x the amount of money she would’ve asked for (we had just been going over her rates and I had told her she needed to raise them. Seemed like a great opportunity to practice what I preach.)

Without batting an eye, the brands each said yes to her requested rate for each project. By the time I left Florida a day or so later, Lorraine asked me to be her talent manager and I haven’t looked back.

For the benefit of our readers, can you tell us a bit why you are an authority on the topic of sales?

I’ve closed over one million dollars on behalf of my clients.

Let’s shift a bit to what is happening today in the broader world. Many people have become anxious from the dramatic jolts of the news cycle. The fears related to the COVID-19 pandemic have understandably heightened a sense of uncertainty and loneliness. From your experience, what are a few ideas that we can use to effectively offer support to our families and loved ones who are feeling anxious? Can you explain?

Recognizing that this might not work for everyone, I’ve made sure to reach out to friends and family on a regular basis, even if I don’t have anything new to share. Checking in on them, asking how their spirit is and lending an ear goes a long way. My family (immediate family + aunts, uncles and cousins) have also started a weekly zoom which we’ve been doing for months now. We play funny games including trivia things like “Will this (household item like an avocado or can of soda) sink or float?” And then someone puts the item into a bowl of water. It’s made for lots of laughs as you can imagine! We’ve tried to guess flags for different countries and state capitols. Turns out we’re not so hot on that front.

I’ve also been making a practice of sending snail mail. Doesn’t have to be a novel, but a note telling somehow the things you love about them, lifts their spirit and can be saved for future reminders when they need a pick me up.

Ok. Thanks for all that. Let’s now jump to the main core of our interview. As you know, nearly any business a person will enter, will involve some form of sales. At the same time, most people have never received any formal education about how to be effective at selling. Why do you think our education system teaches nearly every other arcane subject, but sales, one of the most useful and versatile topics, is totally ignored?

That’s a great question. Now that our education system is long behind me, it’s easy to see that it doesn’t really teach any of the top useful and versatile topics, not only sales but including personal finance, entrepreneurship, credit scores, budgeting, building relationships, making connections, negotiating, managing your money, emotional intelligence etc. Our educational system isn’t designed to empower us with the life skills we need to excel in adulthood.

This discussion, entitled, “How To Be Great At Sales Without Seeming Salesy”, is making an assumption that seeming salesy or pushy is something to be avoided. Do you agree with this assumption? Whether yes, or no, can you articulate why you feel the way you do?

I agree with that statement. We all know of the stereotypes which this assumption quite possibly has its roots — car salesman, someone in network marketing. I’m sure everyone has a person in mind reading this and that person makes sales seem icky, therefore everyone wants to avoid sales like the plague.

It makes me sad that people think all salespeople are pushy and that no one likes either end of the experience. Sales is something to practice the art of as there’s a lot of magic in it. It’s a skill that will get you far in life. I’m great at sales, love it and definitely not pushy or salesy.

The seven stages of a sales cycle are usually broken down to versions of Prospecting, Preparation, Approach, Presentation, Handling objections, Closing, and Follow-up. Which stage do you feel that you are best at? What is your unique approach, your “secret sauce”, to that particular skill? Can you explain or give a story?

Truthfully, I love all the stages because I’m a great listener who is very naturally curious. Regardless of the situation, I always ask the best, opened ended questions (spoiler alert, that’s my secret sauce)!

Closing a deal is really fun because you get to experience all your hard work paying off and everyone is finally happy to reach that part. In my world, closing a deal means I’ve negotiated the most money and best scenario for my clients + brand which is a win all around. That always makes me extra satisfied.

Listening and asking open ended questions is the magic combo. When asking strategic, engaging, open ended questions, people will tell you exactly what you need + want to hear. Doing this will make it seem more like a conversation vs a “salesy, pushy” interaction with an agenda.

From the moment a conversation begins with a prospective new Influencer client or a brand, I make sure be naturally friendly and not to jump right into business. I listen for clues to segue into the conversation, pick up on the breadcrumbs that are laid out by the person I’m talking with and follow up with the information they share.

Easy ways to inquire for more info are:

• What are your expectations of this project/my client?
• What are the goals of the campaign?
• Tell me more about that.
• How did you find my client?
• What’s the dream scenario with this situation?
• I love that idea! Where did it come from?

Lead generation, or prospecting, is one of the basic steps of the sales cycle. Obviously every industry will be different, but can you share some of the fundamental strategies you use to generate good, qualified leads?

People don’t realize business development ie prospecting, is always happening, regardless of having a full load of clients. You can’t wait for a project to finish and not start looking for your next one until that happens.

I create and post content on my website that speaks to prospective clients. This builds my authority in the space and demonstrates that I know what I’m talking about. I share client success stories. I ask my clients for referrals. I tell the world what I’m working on and that I’d welcome a connection to anyone they think would want to know more. I have a FAQ page on my site that does a great job filtering prospects and confirming qualified leads.

In my experience, I think the final stages of Handling Objections, Closing, and Follow-up, are the most difficult parts for many people. Why do you think ‘Handling Objections’ is so hard for people? What would you recommend for one to do, to be better at ‘Handling Objections’?

Handling objections is hard for people because we’ve been taught to avoid conflict and when we do encounter it, we take it personally. First rule of business, it’s never personal. People who can detach from that emotional connection, which I fully recognize is incredibly hard for entrepreneurs as we are selling and pitching ourselves, are successful at sales.

Objections are information. Listen to what the person is saying in their objection, not that you are hearing an objection.

For example, if someone says “no, I can’t afford it”, it’s not a no. It means that your proposal came in higher than the money they have available. That’s handy information. Follow up and ask them what sort of budget they are working with so that you can find a happy medium between your scope and their budget. Ask if they have any wiggle room in their budget. Ask them to rank their top priority items from your proposal and start there.

Pausing, taking a breath and counting to 3 before you respond to an objection is handy. It slows you down from being strictly reactive + forces you to process what they said. The pause has power and instead of trying to change the person’s mind, you will be open to pivoting your approach and coming up with a plan b.

‘Closing’ is of course the proverbial Holy Grail. Can you suggest 5 things one can do to successfully close a sale without being perceived as pushy? If you can, please share a story or example, ideally from your experience, for each.

• Be quiet and listen. There’s power in the pause. She who talks least, wins.
• When I get nervous, I used to talk. You might even describe it as “run my mouth off and babble”. And when I nervous talk, I might say something that I truly didn’t want to say — offering a compromise I don’t agree with, offering to do something I really don’t want to do and in a negotiation, I might come down on my offer and increase the scope of work. That would really undermine my negotiating wouldn’t it?! As a result I’ve made it a very intentional practice to be comfortable with the silence that ensues in a negotiation. Most people feel awkward with silence so only a couple seconds could pass before they start talking, which will work in your favor.
• I negotiate partnerships every single day and have a lot of practice with it. That being said, sometimes if I’m asking for a lot of money or a drastically smaller scope of work, I still get nervous. I remember once asking for $100k for a partnership. It was, at that time, the most amount of money I’d ever asked for on behalf of a client. Even made me giddy to say that $100,000 aloud. I practiced in front of the mirror a couple times so I had some muscle memory with the amount. Then when the time came to say it to the agency, I said it, bite my tongue, put myself on mute and paced around my home while sitting in the silence. The practice paid off and I exuded confidence in the conversation.
• Be genuinely excited! Closing a deal is fun and the beginning of something new and exciting. Perhaps a closed deal means a new client for you. Or it could be a new project. Either way, good things happen after the ink dries on an agreement. You’ve leveled up your business. You’ve expanded your platform. You’ve gained more authority. If you’ve done your work well, both sides are happy with how things turned out and are excited to pivot to next steps.
• I’m truly super excited whenever I reach a “YES” with a brand or event on behalf of my client. My enthusiasm bubbles over like a little schoolgirl on the phone or over email and I don’t hold back! Sometimes my joy catches people off guard because I will yell out “Wahoo! I’m so excited and can’t wait to work with you on this project. Thank you so much.” My joy is contagious and we have a good laugh together, a great way to start things off on the right foot.
• Stay present to the conversation in real time. Don’t be so caught up in the next thing you want to say, that you aren’t hearing what’s being shared with you.
• I was on a call with a brand one day, responding to a client inquiry. I was so sure of why the brand had reached out to my client, that I was organizing my thoughts accordingly. Kinda paying attention to the call, but definitely not showing up in that moment with 100% of my attention. I had asked them how they found my client (always a great question to ask in an initial conversation!) When they responded completely differently than I had expected, it stopped me in my tracks. (Literally, I usually pace when on the phone.) I’m so grateful that I asked that question AND heard how they replied. Otherwise it would have seemed like I was off in left field with my prepared response, looking like a fool and giving a poor first impression for my client, who I was speaking on behalf of.
• Keep it light and break that ice with humor whenever you feel any tension.
• As my calls most often involve conversations about money, and I like negotiating for as much of it as I can for my clients, I make a game of asking for extra big numbers. Sometimes it’s worked, much to my delightful surprise and that of my clients! And in the times my requests for big money haven’t landed, it’s easy to pivot and say, “No worries. I was joking — didn’t think you have a budget of one million dollars for an Instagram post! But how cool would that be if you did?” The humor breaks the ice and levels things off a bit so that nerves and expectations aren’t running so high.
• Be okay with walking away, knowing there’s another opportunity around the corner. Think abundantly, not with a mindset of scarcity.
• Yes, I fully know this is odd advice for requests on how to be great at closing, but hear me out. When I teach people about negotiating and getting to a yes, the stories and examples they share with me convey this grippiness, holding on tight, clinging to this possible new client. That iron-strong grip conveys a feeling of desperation, as if that is the only possibility in the world of a new client.
• I’m NOT saying that you’re not invested in this prospective client/lead, because you are. You 100% want to work with this client. If you remember there’s this possible client along with others available to you vs thinking that this is your one and only chance to land a new client, it will shift your energy. Much better to be in conversation with your weight over your heels vs being antsy to pounce on your toes. Take a moment to stand up and practice what that feels like. Shift your way on your toes and then shift back to your heels. Your prospective client can feel that energy emanating from you — be it abundance and possibility (on your heels) or that of desperation and clinginesss (on your toes).

Finally, what are your thoughts about ‘Follow up’? Many businesses get leads who might be interested but things never seem to close. What are some good tips for a business leader to successfully follow up and bring things to a conclusion, without appearing overly pushy or overeager?

It’s true! The fortune is in the follow up. Track everything so that you don’t have opportunities and prospects fall through the cracks. You put yourself into another league when you nail follow-up. As you mentioned, a lot of people forget or don’t like to follow up. By doing so, your prospects will automatically be impressed. You’ll stand head and shoulders above your competition.

You can use a CRM to track your leads. Different CRMs do this in different ways and some best exist for a certain industry. I recommend you ask your peers for suggestions. In other cases, depending on your business and client offerings, a simple spreadsheet will do.

I use both. My CRM tracks communications activity along with mailing addresses and I can organize people into buckets, so to speak. Daily, I use a spreadsheet to track open inquiries. This is what tells me who I need to follow up with each week.

As you know there are so many modes of communication today. For example, In-person, phone calls, video calls, emails, and text messages. In your opinion, which of these communication methods should be avoided when attempting to close a sale or follow up? Which are the best ones? Can you explain or give a story?

I’m all about hopping on the phone. Most people find the phone intimidating to close a deal and we’ve become a culture that texts and emails. As a result, when I call someone up, they are surprised to have that outreach from me. Can’t lie, it makes me look good that I go “above and beyond” and I’m here for it.

A phone call, as I can’t do my work in person with brands/agencies, ensures no miscommunications and it helps both myself and the prospect, get to our final answer quicker, cutting thru all the back and forth on emails etc.

Ok, we are nearly done. Here is our final “meaty” question. You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the greatest amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

I’d love to trigger a movement of curious, opened ended questions that will bring about conversation and connection.

How can our readers follow you online?

I’m always hanging out on Instagram, https://www.instagram.com/johannavoss/ and at my digital home, http://www.johannavoss.com/. Come join me!

Thank you for the interview. We wish you only continued success!