Kathryn Montbriand Of Lived and Loved On How to Grow Beyond Your Comfort Zone to Grow Both Personally and Professionally

An Interview With Maria Angelova

Pay attention to the dialogue running in your mind; you might notice that you are your own biggest critic. The world will have plenty to say as you change and grow. However, you don’t need to be part of the negativity chorus that keeps you from leaving the comfort zone!

It feels most comfortable to stick with what we are familiar with. But anyone who has achieved great success will tell you that true growth comes from pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. What are some ways that influential people have pushed themselves out of their comfort zone to grow both personally and professionally? As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Kathryn Montbriand.

Before starting two of her own ventures, Kathryn Montbriand spent a decade championing culture change at a Fortune 500 company. There she pioneered a first-of-its-kind team of ‘Culturists’ that focused on employee engagement and creating authentic connections in the workplace. She used that same spirit of positive disruption to create Lived and Loved, which enables people to access their authentic selves through story and art and move forward with confidence.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?

My backstory is actually quite boring. I grew up in a suburb of St. Paul, Minnesota, in an old house that was one of the first telephone switching stations in the state. I had a standard middle class upbringing — two older sisters, parents who took me to piano lessons and soccer practice (neither of which I turned out to be particularly adept at). I loved to read, spend time outside, and play endless hours of board games with my incredibly patient father.

As a child, I was surrounded by people who looked like me and were of similar circumstances. This started to change in college where I met a more diverse set of people. My worldview expanded as I reached young adulthood and have carried that spirit forward into my life.

Along the way, I realized the beauty of bringing together people from disparate backgrounds who embody different perspectives. I’ve moved beyond the small world of my childhood into one that is more expansive and full of uniqueness.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” — Nelson Mandela

I’ve realized that the things most worth doing in life are worth doing scared. Not terrified, per se, but with some pit of uneasiness in your stomach.

I spent my early adult years deciding that I would do things, and then getting through the trepidation to the execution step. I decided to move to San Diego the day after I graduated from college. Not because I had been there or had any specific career prospects. But because I decided it was a good idea. I put all my eggs in the basket of figuring it out, and with an anticipatory gleam in my eye, hit the road.

A few years later, I was ready to change direction again so I signed up for an MBA program in Barcelona. I didn’t have a plan for how I would pay for it, how I would navigate a country where I don’t speak the language or even details like where I would live sorted out. I showed up in town with a few suitcases and no address. Was I uncomfortable, yes, almost every day. Was it worth it, absolutely.

This same premise shows up in smaller ways. Deciding to sign up to give that speech even though you aren’t comfortable in front of an audience. Hitting publish on your first online article at risk of looking foolish in front of your peers and colleagues. Raising your hand for a new role because you think you might be good at it. Becoming a beginner in any pursuit. All these bring a rush of adrenaline. And you have to do them scared.

I use this concept when I’m coaching people to speak in front of a group. The goal isn’t to suppress the physical reaction that accompanies getting on stage. The goal is to anticipate your reaction, plan for it (i.e. wear a dark shirt if you are going to perspire), and move through it quickly to get to the good stuff.

Instead of avoiding the bad parts at all costs — what if we saw them as the price of admission to the good stuff? You want to move across the country. Great, price of admission is: XX hours on the road, YY time spent looking for housing, ZZ hours changing your address. We get so caught up in avoiding the negative that we don’t do the things that will ultimately pay off.

Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?

The book I recommend the most is The Power of TED* (*The Empowerment Dynamic).

This book helped me banish my victim mindset for good and realize that I always have a choice. I can choose to be a builder who takes things and creates from them or a victim who shrinks because of external forces.

Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. Let’s start with a basic definition so that all of us are on the same page. What does “getting outside of your comfort zone” mean?

For me, being outside the comfort zone means two things.

1) Something that is meaningfully different from your current state, and

2) You don’t have hard facts to back up that you will succeed because you haven’t done it before

It doesn’t mean moral or ethical ambiguity. Those represent a whole different category of discomfort.

Can you help articulate a few reasons why it is important to get out of your comfort zone?

• It gives you confidence. The more new things you try, the less daunting each new thing will feel. Each success builds momentum for the next step outside the comfort zone.
• You get to experiment and find the right matches. The more you leave your comfort zone, the more information you gather about what you really like. We do this with dating before we decide to pick a long-term partner. Other areas of life could similarly benefit from experimentation before making long-term decisions.
• It helps you connect with new groups of people. Leaving your comfort zone often means interacting with a new group of people. Whether you are learning a skill or trying something new, the experience will help you relate to a whole new set of people.
• You can assess how you have changed. Our tastes, preferences, and mindsets change over the years. By leaving your comfort zone you get useful data about how things you chose previously fit with who you are today.

Is it possible to grow without leaving your comfort zone? Can you explain what you mean?

Yes and no. I’ll share two frameworks to explain my ambiguous answer.

The first is about the evolving nature of leaving the comfort zone and the second addresses simultaneously being in and outside the comfort zone.

1. The evolving comfort zone.

Different types of growth happen at varying distances from the comfort zone.

Let’s say you want to get fit, but are intimidated by the process and by the gym environment.

On day 1, it might feel terrifying to walk into the gym and step on the treadmill. On day 30, it might be scary to step into the free weights area and set up for your lifts. On day 90 maybe it’s daunting to try your first unassisted pull-up.

After three months, the things that were intimidating on day 1 are now firmly in the comfort zone. You perhaps shouldn’t jump to the day 90 terror on day 1, lest you not step foot in the gym after that experience. But you should keep pushing yourself a little more, a little farther.

The same story unfolds in other domains.

If you want to be a writer, on day 1 the challenge is writing the first page. On day 30, showing your work to someone you care about feels like growth. Two months later, putting your finished work out in the world for public discourse is the hurdle.

None of these growth steps happen inside the comfort zone, but they are all incremental steps as the zone evolves. The challenge is recognizing when your comfort zone has gotten bigger and pushing to the next level.

2. Simultaneous comfort zone and growth zone.

In order to push out of your comfort zone in some domains, you must stay in your comfort zone in others. What I mean here is that the disruption of upending your life and being outside of your comfort zone in all aspects at the same time (moving to a new city, job, starting a new relationship, adopting a new skill) will be overwhelming. It can be done, but it isn’t going to feel good.

Instead, by keeping some aspects of life on a steady and solid course, you can push far outside your comfort zone in other areas. For example, if you keep the job you love and maintain your home routines, you can invest heavily in becoming a great public speaker or starting a side business. The areas that remain in the comfort zone are the anchors that keep you from drifting while you push outward.

Think of it as a rubber band that encompasses your life. If you push outward in all directions at once, the band is likely to snap. If you instead push in one direction, you can stretch the band significantly before it reaches a breaking point.

Can you share some anecdotes from your personal experience? Can you share a story about a time when you stepped out of your comfort zone and how it helped you grow? How does it feel to take those first difficult steps?

My sister died seven years ago.

Before she passed, I carried this burden of knowing she was not well and didn’t share what was going on outside my inner circle of friends and family. When she died, I not only went through the grieving process but also had quite a bit of reckoning to do about being a leader who wasn’t willing to show my true self. I kept all this to myself because of shame, or wanting to appear strong, or not having to deal with uncomfortable questions.

The path out of this was to do something extremely outside my comfort zone. I had to own this particular story, not because it was going to color my entire existence, but because it was firmly part of who I was. I signed myself up to give a speech at an event. I wrote the speech. I practiced the speech. I cried a lot. And then I got on stage and delivered it to over a hundred people, baring the most fragile bits of my being.

This experience helped me grow because it wasn’t a hidden burden anymore. It was simply part of my story. It kicked off a years-long exploration of story and understanding of how important it is to be authentic at work and in daily life.

Two years ago, my husband and I bought a small fixer-upper cabin. Up until that point, we had been committed renters, unburdened by the maintenance and requirements of homeownership.

So, of course, we thought buying a house that needed a lot of work was a great idea.

We started our home improvement adventure with not a single tool to our names and very limited knowledge of what we were getting into.

Every plan went wrong. Things that could have taken a day took three weeks. Walls went up, walls came back down. I painted the wood paneling what felt like a dozen times. I coined the term ‘creative carpentry’ to describe choices the previous owners made. Sometimes we left early because we were mad at the house.

Along the way we watched YouTube videos, called our relatives for expert advice, borrowed tools, got to know our local hardware store and, at some point, became fairly proficient DIY-ers.

I’m not about to win any carpentry awards, but I now have more confidence and more skills than I did before. I know the limits of what I can (and want to!) do myself and when I want to bring an expert in. I’m better prepared for the next time I get to make this kind of decision. Had I stayed in my comfort zone, I would not have had the good and the bad that came with this particular adventure.

Here is the central question of our discussion. What are your “five ways to push past your comfort zone, to grow both personally and professionally”?

What we forget about the comfort zone, those familiar things that we know the outcome of and that have worked for us in the past, is that we are inherently choosing those things every day.

In the old investing example: when you hold a stock over days, weeks, or years, you are implicitly choosing to ‘buy’ that stock each and every day. You aren’t pushing buttons or calling your broker, but you are choosing to continue being an owner. It feels like you only choose two times (purchase day and sell day) but in reality, you are choosing again and again.

I try to think about my life the same way. Each day when I wake up, I’m choosing the things in front of me by virtue of continuing to do them. I am choosing to keep living in my current apartment and city (I can change those things, at some cost and headache). I am choosing to do the work I do (again, I could change that with some effort), I’m choosing my spouse, and I’m choosing my habits.

When you look at it this way, the default settings (aka the comfort zone) become less fixed. It gives you more flexibility to try things and experiment. I’m not stuck playing out the dreams and objectives I created a decade ago when I started my career. I get to pick every day.

Because there is work involved in making the different choices and, presumably, little effort in continuing with the status quo, people stick with the default. It’s human nature.

But nothing will be different if nothing is different. So how do you do the work to get outside your comfort zone?

1. Spend time with yourself.

Hang out with yourself like you would with any friend. Talk (or think) about your hopes and dreams. Investigate what you like to do. Ask yourself the questions you would ask a new romantic partner.

This is the first step because it will form a baseline. The things you discover will shine a light on where your comfort zone is today and where you want to expand it. A scattershot approach will be less effective than more targeted experimentation and growth.

I spent a great deal of time with myself while at a meditation retreat recently. The premise of no talking, devices, reading, or writing for 10 days sends a shock of terror through many people. I decided to try it, although it was definitely outside my status quo.

While there, I learned that my brain isn’t used to being without stimulus. And then I got deeper into the practice and learned about the stories that were holding me back regarding my previous career. Getting quiet and spending time with and by myself helped me to see the path ahead and take my next steps.

2. Try something new physically.

The body is a great laboratory for getting outside the comfort zone. As adults, we aren’t frequently required to do something new with our physical being. We already know how to walk, swim, play the sports we choose to play, and ride a bike.

But, trying something new with the body is a great way to put on a beginner mindset. My favorite physical pursuits require a mind/body connection and combine strategy and movement. Yoga, martial arts, dance, and high-intensity sports are great examples.

When I started learning Krav Maga two years ago I couldn’t throw a punch. On day one, someone had to show me how to turn my hand into a fist. Each new series of moves took a lot of thought and repetition. But over time, my body learned the movements and the patterns. My brain formed new connections and things that were once a struggle are now second nature.

I failed a lot. I looked silly most of the time. But then I learned and got better. And now I can do things I wouldn’t have thought possible two years ago.

3. Decide you are going to hear no a lot.

One of my favorite pieces of advice is: if you care about something, be willing to hear “no” 10 times before you give up. Deciding that you don’t have to succeed on the first try is incredibly freeing. To take it one step further, deciding that each “no” is something to learn from makes it easier to strike out into new domains. Go in expecting to struggle and adjust along the way as you leave your comfort zone.

I recently started a business. It began with an idea. As I shared that idea with people, I heard varying degrees of skepticism and questioning. As a result, the concept evolved. Then I tested a version and again, got feedback and tweaked the offer. Now that I’ve launched I still hear “no”, and continue to learn and adjust. Instead of getting dejected, I used the “nos” to make my product better.

4. Stop being nasty to yourself.

Pay attention to the dialogue running in your mind; you might notice that you are your own biggest critic. The world will have plenty to say as you change and grow. However, you don’t need to be part of the negativity chorus that keeps you from leaving the comfort zone!

The first step is to notice what you are saying to yourself. You can do this with a journal, meditation, or a reminder on your phone — whatever method works for you. The core objective is to pay attention. Once you identify your personal flavor of self-limiting talk, start to change it. When it pops up, say something positive and show yourself the same compassion you would offer a friend.

When I took a career break last year, I was shocked by some of the things I was saying to myself. I had a tape on repeat about how I could or should have been successful in my career. I had a negative view of my future prospects because of it. When I consciously shut that dialogue down and started to run positive commentary, I was able to imagine the next chapter I wanted to build.

5. Make new friends and ask for help.

When you try something new, it helps to have role models, mentors, and coaches to show you the ropes. It is hard to go it alone and there is no reason not to create a support team.

If you’re learning a new physical skill — find a coach, trainer or someone who is more advanced to help you learn the basics. If you’re striking out as a writer, join a writers’ group, make some author friends, or get a book on how to write. Starting a business? Seek out entrepreneurs and business owners who can share their wisdom and answer your call when you get stuck.

After spending ten years in a corporate environment, I realized I didn’t have a lot of people in my immediate orbit who were doing the things I was doing (starting a business and building an online presence). So, I went out and found some new people. I tried networking groups, coffee chats, and random reach-outs to people I found interesting. By doing this, I met the advisors, confidantes, and cheerleaders I needed for the next chapter of life. Don’t assume you have to jump without a net, you just might have to find the right people to fill these roles.

From your experience or perspective, what are some of the common barriers that keep someone from pushing out of their comfort zone?

• People don’t want to deal with the core problem because it is inconvenient to do so. Instead, they change surface-level things — the job, the house, or a new car. I’ve done it. I’ve been unsettled and unhappy and my solution was to find a new role, a new city, or a different schedule. None of that was enough to address the root of the problem: I wasn’t happy in a corporate job anymore. But I didn’t want to deal with that reality so I kept distracting myself with other changes that felt closer to home.
• Conformity offers comfort and there is a tax to pay if you are different. That tax could be explaining your rationale, being asked questions that other people don’t get, or feeling uncomfortable. Discomfort like when people ask me when I’m going to start my family as a childless woman of a certain age. Sometimes, systems aren’t set up to support you in your divergent choice. Have any of my fellow nomads had a hard time getting their license renewed without a permanent address? Being different takes work.
• It feels all-or-nothing. We have a tendency to bundle outside-the-comfort-zone changes together and make the mountain too big to climb. For example, if you choose to move to a new city you now have to figure out a job, housing, medical care and so on. We become paralyzed because it feels too daunting to do everything at once and can’t see the small version of the change. So we do nothing.
• You have to adjust your identity. If you are known to be something and then you change that thing, who are you? If you’re the barbecue guy in your neighborhood and then you stop eating meat, how do you interact with people? If you’re the athlete who gets injured or the business owner who loses their business…you are forced out of your comfort zone but also out of part of your identity. That is heavy stuff to grapple with and going back to reason 2, sometimes it is just easier to stick with the current state than answer those questions.

There is a well-known quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt that says, “Do something that scares you every day”. What exactly does this mean to you? Is there inherent value in doing something that pushes you out of your comfort zone, even if it does not relate to personal or professional growth? For example, if one is uncomfortable about walking alone at night should they purposely push themselves to do it often for the sake of going beyond their comfort zone? Can you please explain what you mean?

Fear sometimes keeps us safe.

I started learning the self-defense practice of Krav Maga two years ago. My reasoning: I wanted to acquire skills that would make me less fearful and more confident as I moved around in the world.

Two things happened as I progressed. The first is, naturally, I developed better skills. I can throw a punch, and I can deflect a kick. I can spar. I know the world doesn’t end if I get hit in the head (while also not wanting to get hit in the head).

The second thing that happened is that I am became more aware of what I should be fearful of. My perceptions are heightened and I am more cautious. I’m now cognizant of who is around me, where the exits are, and what the risks are.

The net effect is that I am still fearful. But in a more holistic sense, I know more about what I should actually be fearful of. I don’t go walking around dark alleys at night to try and overcome this fear, because it is useful.

So to answer the question, I think it is a great idea to push yourself outside your comfort zone in some areas that spark fear if they help you achieve an objective.

However, I don’t recommend making a habit of doing risky things without protection for the sake of facing a fear. While it might make you feel emboldened, it can also make you complacent in situations where you should be vigilant.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?

I wish more people could grapple with this question earlier in life: “What do I choose to be in the world?”.

I often see it happen when people reach middle-age or retirement. They rethink the legacy they want to leave and go on to do amazing things that add value to the world. I recently made a friend who was doing his ‘encore career’ as a college career counselor. He loves it! And he gets to inspire the next generation in a new way.

Sitting down with a big question like ‘what do I want to be in the world’ is overwhelming. It’s not something you figure out in an afternoon.

To get started, I’m a huge proponent of using your story to understand yourself and see the path in front of you more clearly. What I mean by story is: the truth of who you are, what made you that way, what you believe in above all else. What makes you — you.

In the moments when I get quiet and think about my own story deeply, I sometimes see truths that I don’t want to accept. Things that are inconvenient (at best) to rectify. I can ignore them for a while but they come back. They always do. The sooner I actually listen, the sooner I can get on with the work of moving in the right direction and contributing more of what I want to be to the world.

Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!

I would love to chat with Brené Brown, who has done so much to change the tenor of conversation in our corporate workplaces. She made it okay for a whole generation of leaders to not just be vulnerable, but to share their vulnerabilities as whole humans.

How can our readers follow you online?

I write regularly on Linkedin covering topics like career advice, Chief of Staff and storytelling. If you want to explore your story, head over to Lived and Loved and sign up for updates through the newsletter (I offer free mini-experiences a few times per year)!

Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!

About The Interviewer: Maria Angelova, MBA is a disruptor, author, motivational speaker, body-mind expert, Pilates teacher and founder and CEO of Rebellious Intl. As a disruptor, Maria is on a mission to change the face of the wellness industry by shifting the self-care mindset for consumers and providers alike. As a mind-body coach, Maria’s superpower is alignment which helps clients create a strong body and a calm mind so they can live a life of freedom, happiness and fulfillment. Prior to founding Rebellious Intl, Maria was a Finance Director and a professional with 17+ years of progressive corporate experience in the Telecommunications, Finance, and Insurance industries. Born in Bulgaria, Maria moved to the United States in 1992. She graduated summa cum laude from both Georgia State University (MBA, Finance) and the University of Georgia (BBA, Finance). Maria’s favorite job is being a mom. Maria enjoys learning, coaching, creating authentic connections, working out, Latin dancing, traveling, and spending time with her tribe. To contact Maria, email her at angelova@rebellious-intl.com. To schedule a free consultation, click here.