Lisa Wise of Flock DC: How We Are Helping To Make Housing More Affordable

People need to move up, out and on. Sometimes team members grow out of the job; sometimes the job grows bigger than the team member. Like most companies, our talent is like family.

In many large cities in the US, there is a crisis caused by a shortage of affordable housing options. This has led to a host of social challenges. In this series called “How We Are Helping To Make Housing More Affordable” We are talking to successful business leaders, real estate leaders, and builders, who share the initiatives they are undertaking to create more affordable housing options in the US.

As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Lisa Wise.

Lisa Wise is the founder and owner of Flock DC, a family of DC based real-estate management and lifestyle companies. Together, they tend to two billion dollars in property. Lisa’s work is cause-driven, entrepreneurial, and anchored in social justice.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would li ke to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?

By the time I went to college in 1990, I had lived in 23 different spaces over six states in 12 different towns/cities. Housing insecurity defined my childhood. But so did entrepreneurship and an interest in making a difference. I understood early on that I didn’t want a future of instability. And I didn’t want that for anyone else. I pursued a long and rewarding career in nonprofit management. In 2008, I made a leap and started Nest DC, a property management company. It was an effort built on my extraordinary track record of side hustles as disparate as lawn mowing, a little side detective agency, pet sitting, rock selling, financial coaching, painting, wedding video production, landladying, and so much more.

As a company in an industry largely (and fairly) disliked, our focus was both novel and effective. Deliver exceptional spaces and take good care of residents. When people are happy where they live, they make better neighbors. Better neighbors lead to stronger, more sustainable and robust communities. Just like that, life unfolded for me as a social justice entrepreneur. Through my work and business, I was able to create meaningful, impactful change in the lives of residents and the teams that support them. Over time, we grew one business into Flock DC, a family of real estate management companies. Today, we manage two billion dollars in real estate and flirt with seven million dollars in business annually. Once we slay the pandemic side effects, we hope to enjoy a strong growth trajectory.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?

Our starter offices were basically borrowed from a non-profit for years. While squatting was affordable, we needed more room. A sweet spot opened up in an area that was centrally situated and spacious. In reality, it was a two-bedroom apartment being marketed as offices and we were perched above a bar, which meant it smelled like hamburgers all day, every day. We negotiated signage rights with the landlord and when the time came to mount our logo on the building facade, he invoked his “final approval” rights and gave us a hard no on the bird. So, we gave him the bird and started exploring the idea of buying a building. (Ironically, I don’t believe in renting at all.)

Two months later, we closed on a former liquor store of our own, converted the space to offices and did a gut renovation that featured an exterior mural by well-known artist James Bullough. It was the perfect backdrop for our signage and became the first of several forever homes we would buy over the years in DC proper.

Are you able to identify a “tipping point” in your career when you started to see success? Did you start doing anything different? Are there takeaways or lessons that others can learn from that?

When we were four years into the business and managing 200 properties, I was able to take a paycheck. Being able to feed my family and pay my mortgage without a second full time job was not just a relief, but also offered enough proof of concept that I was able to imagine a viable, thriving future for the business and operate accordingly and take more risks.

In the early days, we shied away from financial commitments that bogged us down and inflated expenses. But with stronger cash flow, we had more business to manage, and we needed to reinvest our dollars into infrastructure and talent that would help us scale effectively rather than continue to build on a house of cards. That meant a willingness to break things and rebuild them — over and over. Our motto today? If there’s a smarter, better, or faster way — by all means, it’s in your job description to stop and start again.

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person to whom you are grateful who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?

I love working with my hands. I find it engaging, tactile, and instantly gratifying. My passion for real estate isn’t about cash — it’s about craft. I bought my first duplex in 1997, a small 1893 adobe built right on the dirt. And with that house, I sharpened every home improvement skill I could, from roofing to plumbing to tile to electrical and moving walls. I got hurt, I got dirty, and I got gritty.

I had a very close friend who was by my side during that time, so the heavy lift was a breeze with his guidance. The best part? He didn’t mansplain a thing! He walked me through not only home renovation basics, but also gave me an appreciation for affordable, accessible, and elegant design concepts. What I often thought was out of reach was simply just a few hours of creative thinking away. It was like a master’s program in all things owning and creating a home. We kept in touch for all these years and in 2019, I was thrilled when he moved across the country to join my team as a Senior Project Manager.

Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?

The Color of Law was and still is the most impactful book I’ve consumed, and I’m a voracious reader. The most liberal among us can talk ourselves into believing inequity wasn’t by design from the very start. But this book boldly tells the true story of housing injustice and the architecture and engineering behind it. Structural racism is so ingrained in housing policy and access that it has shaped wealth trajectories for centuries. For anyone in the real estate industry or adjacent (finance/law/construction) it should be essential annual reading.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time.” — Blaise Pascal

Communication is so essential to my work, my leadership, and ultimately my personal brand. Choosing my words carefully and appreciating the art of writing has given me an edge and an outlet at once.

Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion about the shortage of affordable housing. Lack of affordable housing has been a problem for a long time in the United States. But it seems that it has gotten a lot worse over the past five years, particularly in the large cities. I know this is a huge topic, but for the benefit of our readers can you briefly explain to our readers what brought us to this place? Where did this crisis come from?

The middle class is vanishing, full stop. When the cost of living outpaces wages, the result is two classes: Haves and have nots. Affordable housing, though it should be considered a basic human right, isn’t a result necessarily of things getting more expensive — it’s a function of Americans having less to work with and more to pay for. Good, dignified jobs with benefits are more like unicorns, and the gig economy is a new feature of our society that looks appealing in headlines but leaves so many behind when what they need more than anything is to get ahead. Out of pocket healthcare, student loan burden, transportation, and housing costs — none of these expenses align with minimum wage. Even three times the minimum wage is akin to poverty in some urban centers.

And so, investors in multi-family or single unit housing have little to no incentive to appeal to lower income residents. The cash flow or capitalization rates aren’t favorable, and the acquisition and operational costs continue to increase with inflation. The result is an alarming lack of dignified, affordable housing. Ironically, the workforce we rely on to build and maintain these spaces are often unable to afford them. Factor in systemic racism and lack of access to high quality public housing and transportation and jobs, and the delta grows more substantial for Black and Brown dwellers. The system is broken but there is little to no structural incentive to repair it.

Can you describe to our readers how your work is making an impact to address this crisis? Can you share some of the initiatives you are leading to help correct this issue?

We’re a property management company and tend to homes on behalf of investor owners, known by many in the industry as “accidental landlords.” They are one-off owners who find themselves holding an investment property and keeping it in their portfolio. We focus on high quality housing; much of it is quite expensive, and we are very open about that. But we’re also very aggressive about pairing voucher applicants with homes in our portfolio and our company, more than any in the region and arguably the nation.

We don’t design our work to turn away residents with assistance. Instead, we work as hard as we can to be their partner. It’s not just the law — it’s the right thing to do. But stereotypes don’t favor applicants that are part of housing programs for whatever reason, and our client base is inclined to shy away from accepting residents in those programs. Many management companies or solo landlords may strategize around applicant criteria to disqualify them before they even apply. We work hard to keep our client based educated, informed, and empowered. They are obligated to be compliant with Fair Housing Laws and it’s the right thing to do. And there is no financial disincentive month-over-month because rent is guaranteed. Voucher programs are market-friendly, and the allowances meet or exceed typical rent thresholds.

In addition to our aggressive and forward-thinking work with single family owners, we’ve sought partnerships with multi-family investors who are building more affordable housing. These developments are both high quality and affordable. We work with them to design and implement management models that reduce operational inefficiency and improve the bottom line so that units are more cost-accessible.

Lastly, we established birdSEED, a housing justice fund that gives “no-strings attached,” down payment grants to first time Black and Brown homebuyers in our region. Grants range from $10,000 to $15,000 and we pledged $215,000 to help the program take flight. Unlike other assistance programs, eligibility is flexible and the application process is deliberately streamlined, which ensures grantees have little to no obligation once funds are released at closing. To date, we’ve funded four grants, have another four we’ll award this June, and have reviewed over 75 applications — and we’re just getting started.

Can you share something about your work that makes you most proud? Is there a particular story or incident that you found most uplifting?

I’m proud of our work every single day. From the start we’ve been agile, innovative, philanthropic, forward thinking (read: political), and invested in our community. We’ve transformed traditional property management into socially just, forward thinking service that changes lives, not just net worth. Culture is both the through line and the compass for our Flock. There is no better workplace design.

In your opinion, what should other home builders do to further address these problems?

We need to rethink the bottom line. For builders wanting to differentiate, being socially responsible will be a game changer. Millennials’ and Gen Z stakeholders (residents, buyers, investors, and employees) are more inclined to spend with their values and net a societal gain when spending, working, and planning. Builders who wear their values on their sleeve ultimately attract greater dividends.

Creating change and challenging structural inequities is the long game. But I believe that when we put people and place over profit, everyone wins and there are fortunes to be found.

Can you share three things that the community and society can do to help you address the root of this crisis? Can you give some examples?

1. A culture of diversity, equity and inclusion: Communities with an abundance of opportunity for all residents will thrive. Reckoning with racism will help unwind some of the systemic policies and practices that led to segregation, racial wealth gaps, housing inequity, and so much more.
2. Simplified Policy: Housing support programs and government compliance are overly bureaucratic and onerous. With property management, being on the right side of the law is often a complication that isn’t worth the trouble to pursue, from an investor perspective. Code compliance is often inconvenient and inappropriate. Think exterior paint that needs a fresh coat triggering a two-month delay for a (line of) qualified resident(s) who wait…and wait, and wait. Streamlined systems, self-certification, and third-party support to accelerate the process would go a long way to making owners and residents happier. This would only improve the overall reputation for housing assistance programs and enhance overall performance for the investors.
3. Stimulate investments in affordable housing: Tax credits, public private partnerships, favorable zoning, grants, and more should be leveraged to build support and incentivize investors, developers, and builders to create quality, dignified affordable housing.

If you had the power to influence legislation, are there laws which you would like to see introduced that might help you in your work world as it relates to housing?

In this order (and I changed the question): Universal basic income, streamlined voucher programs, tax credits for down payments, and housing trusts. None of this legislation would help our business directly, per se, but a more thriving and equitable economy will lift all industries up. We’re for that.

What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started leading my company” and why? Please share a story or example for each.

1. Find a lawyer that cares about your business and your future. Not just billable hours. We had a more novel employee ownership structure we wanted to pursue. The attorney that put together the operational agreements clearly didn’t have faith in our business model and phoned it in when preparing our documents. When the work was tested as an LLC member exited, it was very clear the agreement didn’t go far enough to protect the company and the resulting damages to our financial wellness had long lasting effects. We came out a little bruised, but stronger for the experience. We now have in-house counsel and know our representation is always in our best interest, even when we have to bring in other attorneys to help with different matters.
2. Bill early and often. Your invoice is much less appealing as the days go by. Let’s be honest: cash is king in any business. We’ve had clients let us know that they decided our bill and their perceived value aren’t aligned. Those clients are more likely to be invoiced later. Billing early limits misunderstandings, helps you move on from completed jobs, and stay in the present with your clients.
3. This too shall soon pass. We’re in a service-based industry. People treat us poorly early and often. That’s something you can get comfortable with over time, but it’s why we say we’re also in the drama management business. When someone is losing their mind because the ice maker is broken, and the pandemic cocktail hour starts at 4 o’clock and you can resolve their “urgent maintenance need,” the back and forth may go on and on. In the moment, these conflicts, big or small, seem all-consuming. But it’s best to remind yourself that it will be in the past before you know it, and giving those issues too much personal energy is a net loss in the long run. Move towards a quick resolution and try not to take things too personally — but just enough to be empathic.
4. Surround yourself with a peer-based support system. I learned everything I know about business from magazines and my social circle, which was mostly made up of folks working in politics or underemployed artists. It was isolating from the beginning to be building something without a good conversation partner. I would have been more anchored in an entrepreneurial circle.
5. People need to move up, out and on. Sometimes team members grow out of the job; sometimes the job grows bigger than the team member. Like most companies, our talent is like family. It’s a struggle when tenure can’t conflate with a forever role, but there is an opportunity for everyone to be better off on separate paths. I bought out my co-founder early on in the company. For all the drive and ambition that I had, he was overwhelmed with the responsibility of it all. As a free spirit and creative soul, the demanding pressure of running a growing company just wasn’t his trajectory. We’re both in better places now and still very close.

You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

Universal basic income would be a game changer, globally and locally. Imagine a world where your neighbors didn’t have to worry about making ends meet. What kind of promising future for all of us would be possible without the struggle to pay rent, to eat, and to educate and care for ourselves and our kids? Having strong baseline financial wellness would create a level playing field, new pathways to productivity, and innovation and positive change. That’s good for everyone.

Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)

Anyone into authentic justice is going to put down Brene Brown, right? Or Oprah, or Stacy Abrams. I put them down, too! My schedule is wide open.

How can our readers further follow your work online?

We’ve got A LOT going on digitally. In addition to all the socials, our main website, www.flock-dc.com, features a Flocktalk section where you can track our thought leadership and our push to impact the community. From there, you can subscribe to our Flockletter, a weekly newsletter that offers lifestyle, political, and justice-based content that keeps our readers engaged and informed. (We don’t shy away from politics because, let’s be honest, this is a company town.) We also keep a strong digital presence on social media — updates about birdSEED, our virtual educational events for homeowners and residents, and what’s going on in our community are regularly shared on @flock_dc. We also regularly update our property listings on @nestdc.

This was very meaningful, thank you so much, and we wish you only continued success.