Marceil Van Camp On The Five Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Leader During Turbulent Times

An Interview With Sara Connell

Do not speak about something that has not yet been made final. If a decision or a big change is pending, , don’t speak about it until it has become a reality. Speaking about possibilities versus facts can sound like gossip. This can be a trust-buster that can cause unnecessary anxieties amongst the team.

As part of our series about the “Five Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Leader During Turbulent Times”, we had the pleasure of interviewing Marceil Van Camp.

Marceil is a marketer by day and a sober influencer by, well, also by day. She launched The Dry Year in 2021 to publicly hold herself accountable for one year of sobriety. She uses her events, blog and social media to showcase the connection that can be made between the sober curious community and inclusive spaces. As a partner in The Van Knauff Group, a restaurant consulting firm, she is using her dry year to show the Seattle food and drink scene that the sober curious still want to be served. She will be launching her own sober-inclusive space in the summer of 2022.

Thank you so much for your time! I know that you are a very busy person. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you got started?

Sure! I’ve always been a curious person and that has taken me down multiple career paths. I’ve held titles in both sales and marketing job families and I’ve been both an individual contributor as well as a people manager. I found myself in a position during 2021 where I saw an opportunity to merge my latest curious endeavor with my day job, so I launched The Dry Year as a means of exploring and reporting on the sober curious movement. I live in Seattle with my wife and we run The Van Knauff Group, a restaurant consulting firm. We spend our free time with our two dogs and our latest passion project has been converting our minivan into a sleek camper van.

Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lessons or ‘take away’ you learned from that?

My biggest mistake was believing that there was a corporate ladder that could be climbed step-by-step. I believed that if I took each step accordingly, that eventually I’d reach the top. My mistake was thinking that the ladder was vertical and sequential. What I’ve learned is that the ‘corporate ladder’ looks more like a Chutes and Ladders board with more twists, turns and options than I’d ever thought possible. Now that I know what the ladder looks like, I focus my career steps on what interests me versus what I think will ‘look good’. Finding passion in what I do daily is what drives my success.

None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?

I’m lucky in love and in business, and I have my wife to thank for both. My wife, Katy, is a lifelong restauranteur, and her passion for creating an experience is exemplified in both her professional and personal life. She doesn’t throw a dinner party without a menu planning meeting, and she treats guests at her restaurants no differently than she would as if they were guests in our home. She showed me that passion can translate to both business success and personal happiness. Without her influence, I don’t think I would have looked at my career path to see that I was making decisions without taking my happiness into account first.

Extensive research suggests that “purpose driven businesses” are more successful in many areas. When your organization started, what was its vision, what was its purpose?

The vision of The Van Knauff Group is to create experiences where customers feel like guests. We want people to feel included, and at home when dining in our restaurants. It is a big part of how The Dry Year transitioned to creating inclusive spaces for the sober curious, as we saw a niche that wasn’t being filled. During our first dry bar crawl, we had people attend who hadn’t stepped foot in a bar for years as they thought they would not be welcomed as sober people. We are focused on our “why” daily, and if we can’t find a good reason to do something, we simply don’t do it.

Thank you for all that. Let’s now turn to the focus of our discussion. Can you share with our readers a story from your own experience about how you lead your team during uncertain or difficult times?

In my first role as a people manager, I was tasked with launching an entirely new concept with an entirely new team. I knew that I’d need to do a lot of convincing internally before I could expand externally, so I started with my direct reports. I essentially pitched to each of my staff, making sure that they were ‘sold’ on our mission. I made sure to instill a purpose-driven message with each team member, such that they felt empowered to do the same. By empowering my team to feel confident in what we were launching, they were able to pass it forward on every customer interaction and internal meeting. We became a team united by our purpose, and we launched a successful product because of our united goal.

Did you ever consider giving up? Where did you get the motivation to continue through your challenges? What sustains your drive?

Of course, I considered giving up! Anything worth doing can also be worth quitting, but if I found purpose in what we were launching I knew we had to find a path forward. Personally, I find motivation in envisioning my end-user and asking questions about their experience. I ask questions of myself and my team like, “Is what we are launching needed?’ or, “Will this change improve our customer’s lives?”. As a team, if we can’t find good answers to questions about our impact, then we reassess our plan and adjust as needed. Well-laid plans look good, but rarely work as planned. I’m empowered to pivot when needed, and I make sure to set that expectation with my team from the jump. I establish quickly that a change in plan is not failure, it is growth in action.

I’m an author and I believe that books have the power to change lives. Do you have a book in your life that impacted you and inspired you to be an effective leader? Can you share a story?

I have one tattoo, and it is a gift box on my right wrist. I got this tattoo because of the book “The Precious Present” by Spencer Johnson. Every year, up until my 18th birthday, my parents would gift me an empty gift box as a reminder that our most precious present is the present moment. This story shaped my upbringing, and as a result, my adulthood. I do my best to stay present in every moment, and when I need a check-up, I pull out my trusted (and slightly worn out) edition of The Precious Present and settle in for a read.

What would you say is the most critical role of a leader during challenging times?

A leader needs to be the north star during challenging times. When challenge arises, it stirs up haze and dust. It can make it difficult to remember where you are heading and why you are heading there. As a leader during challenging times, you must remind your team of their direction and the reason for the destination. Remind them of your ‘why’. Being that north star is the most critical role of a leader during challenging times.

When the future seems so uncertain, what is the best way to boost morale? What can a leader do to inspire, motivate and engage their team?

In my experience, the most inspirational people have also been the most authentic people. When I think about leading during a difficult time, I try to remain as authentic as possible. My team is intelligent and engaged, so they know when something is tough. As a leader, if I downplay or over-index on the difficulty of the situation, they are likely to find out. So, I do my best to remain real. This means I use facts versus thoughts as often as possible and I do my best to speak about solutions. If something is hard, I do not hide it. By embracing the realness of a situation and holding myself to maintaining the facts, I’m able to earn trust with my team to work through difficulties together.

What is the best way to communicate difficult news to one’s team and customers?

Use facts and choose your words wisely. When conveying difficult news, it is important to use language that does not make the situation appear worse than it is. For example, don’t answer questions if you don’t know the answers. It is acceptable for leaders to not know everything. The statement, “I don’t know, but I will find out.”, is powerful. Another example of word or phrases to avoid are ‘maybe’ or ‘sort of’, as this verbiage can create one-off conversations based on alternate realities. Be firm in your delivery and provide best next steps.

How can a leader make plans when the future is so unpredictable?

Leadership is established to make the plans, and to do their best to make those plans a reality. However, well laid plans rarely end as expected, so it is important to pivot when appropriate and communicate any changes to stakeholders. Last, leaders need to revisit the purpose of plans as often as possible. When everyone involved knows why plans exist, they may better understand why they may need to change.

Is there a “number one principle” that can help guide a company through the ups and downs of turbulent times?

State your “why”. When everyone is focused on the purpose of the mission, it makes the journey more fun. If I have a hard day at work, but I know that I made a positive impact in some way, it makes it easier to handle the difficult day. Knowing my purpose allows for that type of reflection.

Can you share 3 or 4 of the most common mistakes you have seen other businesses make during difficult times? What should one keep in mind to avoid that?

• Do not speak about something that has not yet been made final. If a decision or a big change is pending, , don’t speak about it until it has become a reality. Speaking about possibilities versus facts can sound like gossip. This can be a trust-buster that can cause unnecessary anxieties amongst the team.
• Don’t hide information as a means of ‘protecting’ your employees. I once worked for an organization that was very obviously undergoing a c-suite shift, but nobody would speak about it when asked directly, Instead, we were told to ignore the buzz as it would distract us from our work. Rather than speak about why the changes were being made, leadership simply redirected or avoided questions. As a result, when the transition happened, it was shrouded with secrecy and doubt. Many of the Directors ultimately left as they weren’t empowered with any insight to make good choices on behalf of their teams. The reality was that the CEO was retiring, which should have been celebrated! Instead, the new CEO had to deal with a mass exodus on day one as nobody understood why the change had occurred.
• Be a mama bird and not a mama bear. Rather than feeding your team and making sure they are comfortable, push them out of the proverbial nest and watch them soar. This will prepare them to do the same when turbulent times arise. Good managers empower their teams such that during difficult times, they are prepared to step in and lead alongside management, making for one powerful team.

Here is the primary question of our discussion. Based on your experience and success, what are the five most important things a business leader should do to lead effectively during uncertain and turbulent times? Please share a story or an example for each.

• Ask for help when needed. I used to have a Manager who reminded me often that even Serena Williams has a coach. Leaders need help too, and that support can come from any rung of the corporate ladder. Make yourself a leader who is open to hearing suggestions and feedback and you will be a leader who receives good help when you need it.
• Be authentic. This has become increasingly important since the rise of social media as it can be easy to call someone on their B.S. if they have not been forthcoming. For example, I once worked for a company whose leadership was not flexible when it came to childcare-related needs. If someone needed to shift their day for daycare drop off for bump a meeting due to Spring Break it was frowned upon and nobody budged. When it came to light that the COO was adjusting their team’s meetings to accommodate their own childcare issues, it was a complete trust buster and people left the company as a result. Being your authentic self at work can be empowering for those you influence.
• Be accessible. I’m not saying that leaders need to pass out their cell phone numbers, but they need to create space for anyone to connect with them in an appropriate way. This may be holding monthly office hours with an ‘open door’ policy or having a Q&A session at the end of every large group meeting where question askers can remain anonymous. Fostering a sense of accessibility empowers your team while providing a sense of trust when you prove you are willing to listen.
• Recognize Good Work: I’m a runner, and I can tell you that every long-distance race I’ve run has absolutely been for the medal. I’ve even run sequential races just to get an additional medal (I see you Surf City, CA). I assume that if I’m motivated by recognition for my good work, then others might be too. While receiving a medal isn’t everyone’s motivation, it is for some. Create opportunities for your staff to be recognized for their good work and to nominate one another for work that management may not see.
• Know Your Team’s Motivations: As mentioned before, the Millennial in me loves receiving a medal when I’ve done good work. However, that may not be everyone’s motivation. I make no assumptions about what motivates others, and I want to make sure they know I’m listening. Whether I’m new to a team or conducting my 3rd annual review with a specific team member, I always ask about their motivation. For example, I had one team member who wanted to integrate wellness into their work day and they attended workout classes during their lunch. When they launched a successful product, they were rewarded with a gift card to their Pilates studio. Another employee was wildly motivated by education, so we paid for their real estate license exam even though their role had absolutely nothing to do with real estate. In asking about someone’s motivation, you are showing them that you are listening and learning alongside them and that is how trust in leadership is earned.
• Apologize when mistakes are made. This one seems simple, but I learned this firsthand from one of my favorite and most impactful managers. I’d made a big leap to a new role, company and industry. My Manager knew that I was working hard to learn and as a result, I’d landed a massive deal within my first 90 days of employment. Unfortunately, the timing was such that I wasn’t eligible for a bonus. There was a gap of just a few days between the deal closing and the end of my ‘probation period’ as a new employee. I was upset, and I was especially upset as I’d assumed this rule would be overlooked as all of management was aware of the timing and pushing me along the way. As a result, not only did my Manager apologize to me, but they also gave me a cut of their bonus check. This was unprompted and above and beyond my expectations, but I worked harder for them that I’ve worked for anyone because I knew they recognize my hard work. They’d proven it with that simple gesture. A simple apology goes along way, and sharing in success can be a great way to reward good work.

Can you please give us your favorite” Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

I had a hard time finding a job right out of college so I accepted the first role that I was offered. I had little insight into leadership styles or career paths, but I needed a paycheck. In my first role, I worked with an intense consultant who quickly became my even-more intense manager. She set high expectations and pushed me to achieve them. Her leadership style was often severe, but I didn’t know any better, so I responded by achieving. As a result, I was promoted early on and quickly put into a role where executive presence was a requirement. One day, I was complaining to her about feedback I’d been given by one of said corporate heads, and her response was simply ‘Don’t worry about it, you are not that special.’ I was shocked by this response, as it was the first time I’d heard anything that blunt from leadership. However, I took it in stride and continued. Ultimately, I left the company after earning my MBA, which was also something she had pushed me to pursue.

I stayed in touch with this Manager as she’d become a true sponsor of mine. She was someone I knew would push me, and provide real feedback, so we stayed in touch. Years later, I asked her why she had told me that I wasn’t special at that specific point. She told me that she’d pushed me because she saw bigger and brighter things for my future than I did at that stage. She wanted me to know that I didn’t need to take things that seriously. By making it clear that I was ‘not that special’ I was able to focus on the bigger goal of self-improvement versus making that specific group of stakeholders happy.

This person has become sponsor, mentor and friend of mine to the point where 20 years later, I still ask them for advice about my career path. I don’t ask them because they’ve taken the path prior, or because they have the right network. I ask them because I know I will get good advice centered around the possibilities they see in me that I may miss seeing myself.

How can our readers further follow your work?

If you are sober curious, follow me on www.thedryyear.com and www.thevanknauffgroup.com for my restaurant consulting work.

Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!