Matt Kunkel of LogicGate: 5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Became A Founder

An Interview With Doug Noll

It’s hard. Really hard. Building a business is infinitely harder than you think it will be. Infinitely. Think about how few people have started multiple highly successful businesses from scratch. There aren’t many of them — because anyone who has started one business knows exactly how hard it is. Honestly, when you’re a first-time entrepreneur, it’s hard to even conceptualize how hard it is. You don’t have a frame of reference. I certainly didn’t! I cannot tell you how grateful I am that I had two co-founders to lean on during this process — there is just too much to take on alone.

As part of our interview series called “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Became A Founder”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Matt Kunkel.

Matt Kunkel is the CEO and Co-Founder of LogicGate, a leading provider of holistic governance, risk, and compliance (GRC) solutions. Before LogicGate, he spent over a decade in the management consulting space building custom technology solutions to run regulatory, risk, and compliance programs for Fortune 100 companies. Matt is recognized as a leader in the GRC/IRM space, and regularly speaks and consults on risk compliance, regulatory and security topics.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?

It was a long and winding road. I’ll put it this way — I definitely didn’t go to college telling myself, “I want to be a GRC professional.” In fact, I didn’t even go to college with software or technology in mind — I was a finance and economics major. The truth is that from the time I was five years old, I knew I wanted to do something in business. I remember watching Wall Street (which I was way too young for, by the way) and telling my grandpa that I wanted to buy and sell companies when I grew up.

When I graduated from college, I still wasn’t sure what I wanted to do — so I got into consulting. I figured that work would let me test drive a lot of different businesses in a relatively short time, and I was right — but I ultimately fell into the custom application development space more or less accidentally. A lot of what I was doing in my consulting work was developing applications to help businesses meet very specific compliance needs. Eventually, I got tired of the consulting hustle (more to the point, I got tired of spending five days a week on planes) and realized I could turn that experience into a business of my own. I was lucky enough to connect with a few great entrepreneurs, and the rest is history.

Can you tell us a story about the hard times that you faced when you first started your journey?

For me, one of the most surprising challenges has been the erosion of the “wall” between my work life and personal life. Pre-pandemic, I had a daily commute where I could plan out my day on the way into work and transition back into “home” mode on the way back from work. Now I work remotely three or four days a week, and that buffer just isn’t there anymore. It’s funny — when I started this business, I was a single guy. Now, I have a wife, kids, a house in the suburbs…my life looks a lot different! But I still have the same drive and passion I did when I started. Deep down, I still want to be that guy who puts in 15-hour days and is always ready to jump into a project at a moment’s notice. The reality is that just isn’t feasible, and I’ll be the first one to tell people that balance is essential. But separating “work mode” and “home mode” isn’t always as easy as it used to be in the wake of the pandemic.

Where did you get the drive to continue even though things were so hard?

I’m incredibly lucky that I haven’t had to do things alone. I have an amazing group of co-founders, and we each fill a very specific role. We often joke that we founded LogicGate as “a hacker, a hipster, and a hustler.” Dan is the hacker who built the platform. Jon is the hipster who served as our jack of all trades. And I was the hustler who did media spots, customer calls, and public demos. The fact that we each had our own niche made it much, much easier to keep plowing forward because we were all doing what we were best at.

But the reality is, there are always going to be hard times when you start a business. Personally, I’m driven by responsibility — my responsibility to my family, my responsibility to my co-founders, my responsibility to my employees, and my responsibility to our customers. I never want to let anyone down. Because ultimately, when someone says they believe in your company, what they really mean is they believe in you as a leader. And you have a responsibility to live up to that, even when times are tough.

So, how are things going today? How did grit and resilience lead to your eventual success?

Grit and resilience — I mean, that kind of sums it up, right? That’s the life of anyone trying to build a company. It’s incredibly hard work, and it demands the ability to get right back up when you’ve been knocked down. But it’s not just about your own grit and resilience. It’s about surrounding yourself with similarly determined people who believe in you, who believe in the company, and who are equally willing to do the hard work necessary to make it successful.

Frankly, most startups fail because people quit on them too early. They don’t have the grit and resilience to power through the bad times — and there will always be bad times. Hell, even Amazon was almost down to its last dollar at one point. Every company in the world will go through leaner periods, but it’s about how you navigate those periods that counts. The biggest piece of advice I can offer? Hire amazingly talented people. Sure, I’ve played a big role in making this business successful, but putting the right people in the right roles and letting them do what they do best is the most important thing.

Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

This might be a little in the weeds, but it’s the thing that makes me shake my head the most when I look back on it. We started LogicGate as an LLC, mostly for tax reasons. But then we were accepted into a program called TechStars, which is a business accelerator/incubator that helped us make a lot of really critical connections. Unfortunately, to get into TechStars you couldn’t be an LLC — you had to be a C corp. So we had just done all this paperwork to create an LLC, only to have to turn around and do a ton more paperwork to convert to a C corp — and we never even got to take advantage of any of those LLC tax benefits! It was a huge pain, but in retrospect, it taught us an important lesson about doing our homework ahead of time.

What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?

I know everyone probably says this, but I think first and foremost it’s our people. And that doesn’t come from me — when I talk to our customers, the very first thing they talk about is our people and how amazing they are to work with. I’m really proud of the job we’ve done building a culture here and making sure we hire for that culture. We’re not just looking for great engineers — we’re looking for great engineers who believe in teamwork and can embrace their inner curiosity. We always make sure we’re looking for people who share our values.

I think we also had a bit of an advantage when we got started. I basically did this exact same work for 10+ years when I was consulting, long before I ever thought about forming a company — so I knew the ins and outs of the space from the jump. Honestly, I tell people all the time that if you want to start a business, the best thing you can do is immerse yourself in that space for a few years. Whatever it is you want to do, try doing it elsewhere first. That lets you experiment in a pretty safe environment. Thanks to that experience, we have a company that was built by GRC experts — and we know how to deliver that expertise to our customers in a more meaningful way.

Which tips would you recommend to your colleagues in your industry to help them to thrive and not “burn out”?

The biggest thing is understanding what brings you joy outside of work. What is your happy place? How do you spend your free time? Because that’s always going to be the thing that helps recharge your batteries. For me, it’s cooking. I love cooking. I grill all the time, and my family does homemade pizza night every Friday. Having that outlet is huge — I don’t think I could keep doing what I do without it! And on a similar note, I always, always make sure I have dedicated time to spend with my family. Sometimes I literally block it off in my calendar. And I make sure my colleagues know that unless the world is ending, I do not want to hear from them on Sundays. That’s my time with my wife and my kids, no matter what. So, my advice is to spend time on what you’re passionate about and block off time for the people who are important to you. Maybe that means your kids. Maybe that means your friends. Find the people who help you refill your emotional cup.

The other important thing is to enjoy the ride. If your goal is to build a $3 billion business, that’s great, but an awful lot of things need to happen before you get to that stage. Yes, it’s important to have a destination to plan around, but it’s not going to happen overnight — and if your focus is fixed on that end goal, you’re going to have a bad time. Setting interim milestones and celebrating them when you reach them can go a long way toward preventing burnout.

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?

Well, I’m going to assume you mean aside from my cofounders — they go without saying, obviously. But there are two other people who jump to mind. One is Mike Gamson, who was the global head of sales for LinkedIn when I met him. He’s been an incredible mentor and friend, and he helped open a lot of doors for me early on — including with his own boss, Jeff Weiner. He also helped me think a lot about company building, and how it absolutely needs to be focused on people and relationships. That’s helped shape my thought process about how a good business should operate.

The other is Scott Dorsey, who founded a company called ExactTarget that he eventually sold to SalesForce. He taught me that culture is truly the biggest differentiator a company can have. But it’s hard. He really showed me what makes company values important, how to articulate those values, how to get others on board with them, and how to communicate them throughout the company. That’s such an underrated part of building a business — communication. If you’re past the initial startup phase and your business has reached 50–100 employees and continues to grow, communication becomes absolutely critical. How you communicate with your directs, yes, but also how you communicate with your employees and your customers. Scott played a huge role in teaching me how to be a better communicator — I really can’t thank him enough.

How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?

One of the great things about reaching a certain level of success is that now we can do things we just couldn’t do when the company was getting started. For instance, we really try to prioritize our employees’ work/life balance. Every LogicGate employee gets paid time off to do something they want to do in their community a few times a year. And we now have programs we sponsor, including the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, which is a cause that is near and dear to my heart. We also try to be active in our local Chicago community, since so many of our employees are located there. These are all things we couldn’t do as a small startup, but I’m thrilled we have the resources to prioritize now.

I also just try to pay things forward as much as I can. I mentioned Mike and Steve, whose mentorship was incredibly impactful for me when I was just starting out. I am always willing to play that role for someone else. If someone wants 20 minutes of my time for entrepreneurial advice, I’m never going to say no. Mike could have said no to me 100 times back in the day — but he didn’t. When I called, he answered the phone. I try to emulate that whenever I can. I always answer the phone. Well, unless it’s Sunday.

What are your “5 things I wish someone told me before I started leading my company” and why. Please share a story or example for each.

1. The importance of culture. Is this cheating? Because really, Mike and Scott did both make sure I knew culture was important. Even still, seeing firsthand what a major difference a positive company culture can make is eye-opening. I’ve seen through good times and bad times how important it is to have employees who are bought into the mission and values of the company. Even in the worst of times, that can really galvanize a company and keep it going. Culture isn’t just some nebulous idea — it has a real, tangible impact on the success of the business.

2. The value of relationships. I say it all the time: every business is a people business. The relationships you build with your customers, employees, investors — even the media. The way you manage each of those relationships is going to be different, but if you approach them from a common set of values, they become much easier to navigate. Mark Twain once said, “If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything.” That was his way of saying that as long as you tell the truth, you don’t have to worry about keeping your story straight. Relationships are the same way. Don’t try to adopt a persona. Just embody your core values in every relationship and you’ll be just fine. It’s important to be genuine — you never want to come off as fake.

3. Balance is critical. In the early days of a startup, you’re in “go mode” all the time. Things move fast, and they can be overwhelming. If you don’t maintain a little balance in your life, you’ll either burn yourself out or you’ll reach your end goal and feel unfulfilled (which might be even worse). A lot of great entrepreneurs brag about working 100-hour weeks…but why? That level of dedication to the business is commendable from a certain perspective, but if work is the only thing in your life, what’s the point? I love my family, and I want to build a great life for them. That’s a huge motivating factor for me.

4. Cashflow is the lifeblood of any business. Don’t get me wrong — when you’re building a company, investor money is critical. But, ultimately, it’s a means to an end — or at least, it should be. Investor money can give you the resources you need to build the business, but it should all be in the service of becoming cashflow positive. If I could do it all over again, I would prioritize investments in generating customer cashflow, rather than optimizing for investors. Like I said, investor money is still necessary — but it’s a matter of priority.

5. It’s hard. Really hard. Building a business is infinitely harder than you think it will be. Infinitely. Think about how few people have started multiple highly successful businesses from scratch. There aren’t many of them — because anyone who has started one business knows exactly how hard it is. Honestly, when you’re a first-time entrepreneur, it’s hard to even conceptualize how hard it is. You don’t have a frame of reference. I certainly didn’t! I cannot tell you how grateful I am that I had two co-founders to lean on during this process — there is just too much to take on alone.

Can you share a few ideas or stories from your experience about how to successfully ride the emotional highs & lows of being a founder”?

Well — it’s not optional, I’ll tell you that much. Because there will always be highs and lows. And when your business is involved, the stakes always feel high. I’m lucky, because my personality has always been pretty even keeled. I don’t tend to get too high or too low about any one thing — and that’s helped a lot. When you’re running a business, you don’t want to get too excited about positive developments, because that can lead to overextending yourself and making promises you can’t keep. But you also don’t want to panic when something goes wrong. The more level-headed you can be, the better you’ll be at avoiding rash decisions and communicating a sense of stability to your employees and your customers.

At the end of the day, you have three stakeholders: your investors, your customers, and your employees. And they all have one thing in common: they value stability. Stability keeps your investors from meddling. It makes your employees feel secure. And it gives your customers confidence. If you have stability — and, more importantly, if you can communicate that stability — it can help everyone around you navigate the highs and lows much more easily.

You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

I would kill social media. Well, okay, that’s probably too extreme. But with AI and deepfakes, it’s really scary what you can get people to believe these days. And really, even most human-generated content is fake. Instagram influencers aren’t selling a real lifestyle. Most of them are giving their followers — especially their young followers — a false impression of what’s possible. It’s scary. But then again, there are good things about social media. It’s an important platform for a lot of people — but it’s important to use that platform in a way that doesn’t just skew toward outrage. So maybe instead of eradicating social media, we look for ways to implement more effective regulation and moderation to help ensure that it is used responsibly. How do we accomplish that? Well…great question.

I’d also like to rethink AI governance. We’re doing some amazing things with AI right now — but the truth is that if we don’t push some serious checks and balances on how the technology is developed and used, some pretty crazy things could happen over the next decade. It’s hard to predict exactly what will happen with AI, but we need to start thinking a lot more seriously about it. Our motto is go fast, go safe. You can’t avoid AI, so the best course of action is adopting the technology in the safest manner and keeping up with how quickly it’s evolving.

How can our readers further follow your work online?

I write regular articles for the Forbes Technology Council, and occasionally contribute to the LogicGate blog. I also post on LinkedIn every now and then.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!

About the Interviewer: Douglas E. Noll, JD, MA was born nearly blind, crippled with club feet, partially deaf, and left-handed. He overcame all of these obstacles to become a successful civil trial lawyer. In 2000, he abandoned his law practice to become a peacemaker. His calling is to serve humanity, and he executes his calling at many levels. He is an award-winning author, teacher, and trainer. He is a highly experienced mediator. Doug’s work carries him from international work to helping people resolve deep interpersonal and ideological conflicts. Doug teaches his innovative de-escalation skill that calms any angry person in 90 seconds or less. With Laurel Kaufer, Doug founded Prison of Peace in 2009. The Prison of Peace project trains life and long terms incarcerated people to be powerful peacemakers and mediators. He has been deeply moved by inmates who have learned and applied deep, empathic listening skills, leadership skills, and problem-solving skills to reduce violence in their prison communities. Their dedication to learning, improving, and serving their communities motivates him to expand the principles of Prison of Peace so that every human wanting to learn the skills of peace may do so. Doug’s awards include California Lawyer Magazine Lawyer of the Year, Best Lawyers in America Lawyer of the Year, Purpose Prize Fellow, International Academy of Mediators Syd Leezak Award of Excellence, National Academy of Distinguished Neutrals Neutral of the Year. His four books have won a number of awards and commendations. Doug’s podcast, Listen With Leaders, is now accepting guests. Click on this link to learn more and apply.