Mental Health Champions: Why & How Dr Carla Chugani Of Mantra Health Is Helping To Champion Mental Wellness

An Interview With Michelle Tennant Nicholson

Practice acceptance. Acceptance has been critical to my wellbeing in so many different ways. I’ve worked on accepting myself, my body, my limitations, mistakes I’ve made, as well as the things I know I can’t change, like other people’s behavior. For me, the practice of acceptance is a way of letting go of trying to control everything and giving in to the reality of what is.

As a part of our series about Mental Health Champions helping to promote mental wellness, I had the pleasure to interview Dr. Carla Chugani.

Carla Devi Chugani, PhD, LPC is a clinical scientist, therapist, and collegiate mental health expert who currently serves as Vice President of Clinical Content & Affairs at Mantra Health. Dr. Chugani is also an assistant professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, and has authored more than 40 peer-reviewed articles, abstracts, and chapters. Her research focuses on the intersection of mental health and the higher education environment.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit. Can you tell us a bit about how you grew up?

I had a really unique childhood. Growing up with two parents who were academics, I got to travel all over the world with them to medical and scientific conferences. From a very young age, I had a great sense of adventure and appreciation for the beauty of other cultures. Having this exposure to different cultures and traditions was particularly important to me as a biracial and bicultural person raised by an Italian American mother and an Indian Immigrant father who was raised in Hong Kong. I think these early experiences really solidified my understanding that there is no one “right way” to live your life.

You are currently leading an initiative that is helping to promote mental wellness. Can you tell us a bit more specifically about what you are trying to address?

I am working on developing evidence-based digital content products to promote mental health and well-being in college students. This work is being driven by big increases in mental health problems, rising demands for therapy in this population, and the imperative to increase equitable access to high-quality care and support. From my perspective, we need to be taking a public health approach to tackling mental health. This means that we don’t wait until people develop symptoms to provide treatment — we get proactive and start investing in what we can do upstream to equip everyone with the knowledge, tools, and resources they need to develop and maintain positive emotional health and bounce back more easily from life’s inevitable challenges.

Can you tell us the backstory about what inspired you to originally feel passionate about this cause?

I developed some really serious mental health problems when I was in college. I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, major depressive disorder, and generalized anxiety disorder. It’s hard to describe succinctly, but I can’t emphasize enough how deeply painful those years were for me. I didn’t want to be alive a lot of the time, and I didn’t have a lot of hope for how things could possibly improve. My future looked very bleak. I am incredibly fortunate to have the privilege of supportive and financially stable parents. They really took care of me during that time and kept pushing to get me the treatment I needed, even when I didn’t cooperate. Once I recovered, I realized that I had been given a second chance at life. I had a chance that a lot of people never get because I was lucky enough to be able to afford treatment and have a family that kept fighting for me even when I wouldn’t fight for myself. Knowing how lucky I am is what drives my passion to care for college students.

Many of us have ideas, dreams, and passions, but never manifest them. They don’t get up and just do it. But you did. Was there an “Aha Moment” that made you decide that you were actually going to step up and do it? What was that final trigger?

Early on in my training as a therapist, I began learning more about Dr. Marsha Linehan. Marsha is the developer of dialectical behavior therapy (DBT), which is an evidence-based treatment for borderline personality disorder. In 2011, Marsha shared her life story with the New York Times about her own early struggles with severe mental illness. She had been in an inpatient facility at a time when no one really understood what she was going through, and she made a promise to herself that when she got out she was going to help others get out, too. When I read that, I was really struck that I had been lucky enough to find my way out of hell and the best way to pay it forward was to go back and help those who were still stuck. I became a DBT therapist and started one of the first DBT programs housed in a college counseling center. There was nothing quite like the feeling I had when we evaluated our program and were able to prove that it was really working to change young lives. The data we collected helped us get funding to host the first-ever DBT Intensive Training in the State of Florida and solidified my commitment to go back to school again, this time for a PhD.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your company or organization?

One of the most interesting experiences I’ve had at Mantra Health has been working with Serena Smith, a director and producer. She’s a James Beard Award winner and a four-time Emmy nominee who produced for Larry King and interviewed Gloria Steinem for Masterclass. I had the honor of working with her to produce videos for a Mantra Health content product. Meeting another woman working in a male-dominated industry, I felt an immediate connection and camaraderie with her. Serena brought out skills in me that I had long forgotten about related to performing, emoting, and taking notes on the fly. As a former opera student, I am quite accustomed to taking notes and direction, and this was a unique opportunity to work with such a talented, dynamic, and brilliant woman. It was incredible and inspiring, especially since we are both so deeply committed to supporting mental health and making positive change in the world.

None of us can be successful without some help along the way. Did you have mentors or cheerleaders who helped you to succeed? Can you tell us a story about their influence?

I have had too many mentors and cheerleaders to list! My number one mentor and cheerleader has always been my mom, who is also a scientist. She saw me through some of my darkest days, but has also provided countless hours of paper and grant reviews, as well as advice about navigating the unspoken rules of academia. One of my favorite memories that shows my mom’s influence on me occurred shortly after I received my Master’s degree in counseling. I was thinking about getting a PhD, but most of the scientific research on DBT was being conducted by psychologists. As someone who was already a professional counselor, re-specializing in psychology would have meant a lot of extra work. I wanted to pursue my PhD in counselor education, but I was worried that coming from a different field, I wouldn’t be accepted by the other scientists. My mom advised, “No one cares what your degree is in. Just do good work and people will notice.” I didn’t believe her at the time, but it’s advice that has come true over and over again throughout my career.

The other mentor who has made a profound impact on my career trajectory is Dr. Tina Goldstein. After graduate school, I was worried that I wouldn’t be able to find a faculty position. I knew I wanted to end up in Pittsburgh so that I could be with my partner, so I emailed Tina to ask if I could be her research assistant. We connected and she suggested that I should be her postdoc instead. I never imagined that anyone would want me to be their postdoc, much less a T32-funded fellow (i.e., a prestigious NIH funded post-doctoral fellowship that supports young investigators in continuing their scientific training under leading mentors), but she connected some dots and made it happen. When I arrived at the University of Pittsburgh, I shared that I didn’t feel like I fit in with the other postdocs. She replied, “You don’t fit in, in the best possible way.” I carry these two pieces of advice very close to my heart.

According to Mental Health America’s report, over 44 million Americans have a mental health condition. Yet there’s still a stigma about mental illness. Can you share a few reasons you think this is so?

I think much of the stigma surrounding mental health conditions has to do with lack of information or understanding. Unlike physical injury or disease, mental illness can present in much less tangible ways. We would never tell a person with a broken arm to stop being so dramatic and just get over it, but many people seem to operate under the misguided assumption that people with mental illness can control their illness or symptoms. This leads to the idea that people with mental illness have moral or character flaws rather than a legitimate health condition. These beliefs foster discrimination, marginalization, and othering of people living with mental health conditions. And because many do not take mental health needs seriously as part of health needs, our healthcare system doesn’t do a great job of providing equitable access to high-quality care, which results in devastating societal consequences, such as the overrepresentation of people with mental illness in our prisons.

In your experience, what should a) individuals b) society, and c) the government do to better support people suffering from mental illness?

At the individual level, I think the best thing we can all do is get educated, both about our own mental health and ways we can support the mental health of others. As a society, we take responsibility for teaching young people about how their bodies work in school. We should be teaching children from a young age to understand how their minds work, as well as practical skills for mood-regulation, coping, and healthy relationships. Educating everyone about how to best care for their own mental health, as well as how to spot some of the basic warning signs that someone else might need support, is one of the most important things we can do to promote mental health as a society.

At the government level, we need more policy and legislation that codifies the right to equitable, affordable access to high-quality, culturally-competent mental health care for those in need. We need to be investing in mental health across the care continuum. This also means that we need to invest in developing and growing our workforce of clinicians and providers. We need to find ways of encouraging and supporting more young people to pursue behavioral health professions. Along with this, we need to advocate for reimbursement rates that provide our mental health practitioners with decent wages as this will help attract and retain people in the field.

What are your 5 strategies you use to promote your own well-being and mental wellness? Can you please give a story or example for each?

1. Be a critical consumer of mental health and wellness information. There are a lot of societal messages about what health looks like and this often comes with fads, supplements, or other “miracle cures” that can end up being ineffective or even damaging to our health. We need to think for ourselves about the information that we’re presented with. Remember that maintaining wellbeing isn’t easy — if it were easy, you would have figured it out and mastered it a long time ago.
2. Practice acceptance. Acceptance has been critical to my wellbeing in so many different ways. I’ve worked on accepting myself, my body, my limitations, mistakes I’ve made, as well as the things I know I can’t change, like other people’s behavior. For me, the practice of acceptance is a way of letting go of trying to control everything and giving in to the reality of what is.
3. Figure out who you want to be. Following our values isn’t always easy, but it’s a powerful method for pursuing a life that is fulfilling and joyful. Whenever I’m confused about how to deal with a situation, I try to step back and ask myself, “Who do I want to be right now?” Asking this question helps clarify what values are most important to you in the moment so that you can follow them.
4. Wear comfortable clothes. I know this sounds silly, but one of the things I’ve struggled a lot with over the years is being willing to buy clothes that fit as my body size and shape has changed. Wearing clothes that actually fit helps me feel much more confident and comfortable in my own skin, regardless of my size.
5. Embrace “good enough.” Many of us strive for perfection, and while that mindset can push us to amazing heights, it often comes with increased anxiety and fears around failure. You will always feel like a failure if your definition of success is an impossibly high standard. More than one mentor has advised me that if I feel like I’m accomplishing 80% of what I wanted to or performing at 80% of my best, I’m doing great.

What are your favorite books, podcasts, or resources that inspire you to be a mental health champion?

Thich Nhat Hanh’s books on mindfulness have had the most profound impact on my own mental health and wellbeing. I often turn toward his teaching and practices during the most difficult times in my life to find peace in the midst of overwhelming chaos.

My favorite podcast is Maintenance Phase, which is a show that debunks the junk science behind many popular diet and wellness fads. As a person who struggles with body image and has a previous history of disordered eating, I deeply appreciate the research, compassion, and critical discourse that Maintenance Phase provides to listeners. The show has helped me embrace the reality that much of the messaging I heard and internalized as a child and young adult related to weight, eating, and beauty standards is toxic and fatphobic. As I’ve worked on replacing some of these unhealthy narratives, I’ve found that I am redefining my relationship with my body and appearance, which is wonderful to experience as I approach the end of my 30’s.

If you could tell other people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our environment or society, like you, what would you tell them?

I think it’s important to remember that we each have our own unique set of gifts and talents. We all have different ways we can contribute to society and try to make the world a better place. In addition to creating positive change, contributing often helps us feel good about ourselves. Contributing is a powerful way to give meaning to our lives, and having this sense of meaning is a big part of positive mental health and wellbeing. When you spend your energy trying to create positive change in the world, in whatever ways you can, you help others and you help yourself. The energy you put out into the world truly does come back to you.

How can our readers follow you online?

Connect with me on LinkedIn and follow our work at Mantra Health!

This was very meaningful, thank you so much. We wish you only continued success on your great work!

About the Interviewer: Inspired by the father of PR, Edward Bernays (who was also Sigmund Freud’s nephew), Michelle Tennant Nicholson researches marketing, mental injury, and what it takes for optimal human development. An award-winning writer and publicist, she’s seen PR transition from typewriters to Twitter. Michelle co-founded WasabiPublicity.com.