Mindy Vail Of The MindShift Effect On How We Can Increase Women’s Engagement in Leadership and Management
An Interview With Vanessa Ogle
Uncover conscious biases. Conscious biases against women in leadership are often direct and deliberate. You see it when women get left out of important roles or decision-making, get paid less than men for the same jobs, or miss out on promotions. These biases are all about the belief that women are too emotional and aren’t as capable or committed to make big decisions. These biases contribute to hostile work environments through harassment and undermining women’s authority. All this holds women back from advancing and succeeding in leadership.
Despite strides towards equality, women remain underrepresented in leadership and management roles across various sectors. In this series, we would like to discuss the barriers to female advancement in these areas and explore actionable strategies for change. We are talking with accomplished women leaders, executives, and pioneers who have navigated these challenges successfully, to hear their experiences, tactics, and advice to inspire and guide the next generation of women toward achieving their full potential in leadership and management roles. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Mindy Vail.
Mindy Vail founded The MindShift Effect out of her love for leadership development and change management. She has witnessed the many barriers to successful organizational transformation and understands how daunting it can feel when searching for the right information or trying to narrow focus amidst so much noise. With 25 years of experience in leadership development, change management, education, and public speaking, Mindy has had the privilege of working with individuals from diverse backgrounds and experience levels, from emerging leaders to executive coaching. She is a Prosci Certified Change Management Practitioner, a Certified Hogan Leadership Coach, and holds a Master’s degree in Curriculum Development.
Every day, Mindy wakes up with a purpose — to empower individuals and organizations to embrace change, unlock their leadership potential, and achieve their goals. With a focus on cultivating growth mindsets and fostering resilience, she is committed to guiding individuals through transformative journeys that lead to lasting impact and success. She believes that even a slight shift in mindset can have far-reaching effects. In her free time, you might find Mindy hiking up a mountain, searching for a waterfall, or paddleboarding on a nearby lake. She loves traveling and has explored nearly 50 countries and 45 states, including living in Singapore and The Netherlands for over a decade. Despite her adventures abroad, she finds the Pacific Northwest to be a truly stunning place to call home.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I grew up as a third culture kid, spending the bulk of my formative years overseas in Europe and Southeast Asia. Immersed in different cultures while staying connected with the expatriate communities, I developed what I believe to be a unique perspective on the world. After graduating high school in Singapore, I moved to Arizona for college, knowing no one. Despite looking like a typical American sorority girl, I felt like an outsider experiencing intense culture shock.
I made friends quickly but always felt I viewed the world differently. Like many college kids, I got a bit lost along the way. I kept my grades up but had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, even after graduating. I took on various odd jobs, from HR internships at Xerox and Arthur Anderson Consulting to outbound sales with MCI phone company, but I was deeply unhappy. One day, I called my mom crying, and she wisely asked what made me happiest. Through that tearful conversation, I realized my path was in education, following in her footsteps despite the headaches she often brought home.
Fast forward 17 years and 2,500 students later, I left the middle and high school classrooms for a laundry list of reasons. Once again, I found myself at a crossroads, unsure of my next step. After falling flat on my face with a couple endeavors, I secured a one-year contract with Chipotle as an e-learning developer and ventured into the corporate world. This transition led to our family’s relocation from Denver to the Pacific Northwest for a position with Papa Murphy’s Pizza. Starting as a Sr. Manager of Training, I was promoted four times over eight years, ultimately becoming the VP of Culture & Engagement. In this role, I oversaw HR, L&D, Communications, and the PMO, until I was laid off this year due to a merger. I am now consulting and coaching others who may be stuck in their own progress, or who are simply looking to improve how they lead, particularly through change.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
When I left teaching, I was a lost soul. While some of my colleagues couldn’t imagine doing anything else, I just couldn’t get on board with that mindset. Still, the idea of switching careers without a clear direction was nothing short of terrifying. After a year of sending out job applications, trying and failing at a few business ideas, and taking on random gigs, I got an unexpected call from Chipotle offering me a shot in the corporate world.
During the interview, they asked about my experience with e-learning course development. I confidently said I had experience, thinking back to my work in professional development. But then they asked about a specific software called Storyline, which I’d never used. I didn’t let that stop me, though. I promised to deliver a sample by Monday.
That weekend, I dove headfirst into teaching myself Storyline and managed to create a pretty decent course to submit. Landing the job was a huge turning point for me. Normally, falsifying the truth isn’t something I’d advocate, but in this case, it was about self-preservation and grabbing a life-changing opportunity. That one experience reminded me that a risk is often worth the reward and I will almost always jump in, even when I’m not 100% ready. Taking risks, even when things are uncertain, has been key in my journey. Show up, believe in yourself, and don’t be afraid to fall flat on your face, because you will. And that’s awesome.
Can you share a pivotal moment in your career that significantly influenced your path to leadership?
One pivotal moment that really shaped my journey to leadership happened when I was a senior manager of training. I had just started working under a new boss who had tons of experience with well-known international brands, and I really respected his background at first.
But within the first six months, I noticed something off. He was taking credit for my work and ideas without ever acknowledging my contributions or asking me to have a seat at the table. It felt like a punch to the gut every time he presented my hard work as his own. He never apologized, or maybe he didn’t have enough self-awareness to even see it. Despite this, I was lucky to have supportive colleagues who saw what was happening and had my back. While I was driving projects and coming up with innovative ideas, he was sitting around, leisurely reading articles and pretending to be busy. To make matters worse, the leadership team at the time was primarily men and it felt a bit like an old boys’ club. I was battling imposter syndrome, having just come out of teaching a couple of years prior. I kept questioning myself: “What do I know? Am I just complaining about nothing?” I think this is what happens with a lot of women. We doubt our ability to add value, and what a shame that is.
Eventually, I decided to speak up and addressed my concerns with his boss. I knew it was risky and could have easily backfired, but I did it anyway. It was a nerve-wracking moment, but it turned out to be the right move. In time, his boss noticed the imbalance. My boss was let go and in time, I was selected as his backfill.
This experience was eye-opening for me. It wasn’t just about his lack of leadership. It was about realizing my own strengths in a male-dominated corporate environment, and it fueled my determination to lead effectively at a higher level. It also underscored the importance of believing in myself and not letting doubt overshadow my contributions.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
When reflecting on people who have profoundly influenced my journey, a woman named Eileen stands out as a pivotal figure. During my early teaching career, she played a crucial role as a pupil achievement specialist, dedicated to empowering teachers to bring their best to their classrooms.
One of the most profound lessons Eileen imparted was her analogy of creating a frame for creativity. She explained how setting boundaries or constraints could actually enhance our ability to innovate and think creatively. This concept deeply resonated with me because it shifted my perspective on structure from being limiting to empowering. It taught me that with a clear framework, I could harness my creativity more effectively, producing work that was not only personally fulfilling but also impactful and appreciated by others.
Beyond her insightful teachings, it was Eileen’s personality that truly made her lessons stick. She had a natural gift for engaging and inspiring those around her. Eileen wasn’t just a teacher of concepts; she was a mentor who listened attentively and provided thoughtful guidance, and her hand-written thank you cards were an added touch. Her supportive approach created an environment where growth and development flourished naturally.
What struck me most about Eileen was her resilience. She embodied a balance of logic and emotion, strength and softness — qualities that women often grapple with. Her ability to navigate challenges with graceful fortitude left a lasting impression on me, showing me the power of kindness and authenticity in leadership.
Even today, Eileen’s influence continues to shape my approach to leadership and decision-making. I often find myself reflecting on her advice, wondering how she would approach various challenges. This practice has become a valuable compass for me, guiding my actions and helping me stay focused on meaningful goals.
In essence, Eileen’s impact goes beyond just teaching skills; she instilled in me a mindset of embracing structure to enhance creativity and foster growth, all while demonstrating the strength and resilience inherent in authentic leadership. Her mentorship remains a cornerstone of my professional journey.
Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
There are a few that rise to the top but recently, Glennon Doyle’s Untamed hit home. Her story is raw and honest, which is rare for women to express without worrying about judgment. And maybe she did worry about judgement but did it anyway — even better! Her journey to find inner strength and fulfillment made me want to dig deeper into my own life and find more beauty in a life that is already fulfilling. It made me take inventory of my career, relationships, and personal goals. It made me realize how unique my own journey is and how important it is to honor that — my struggles and failures are what make me who I am. I also stopped listening so much to the outside noise of society’s expectations and began to feel even more grateful for what was right in front of me. And you know what? It’s brought me a sense of peace and clarity that I haven’t felt in a long time.
I pinned one particular quote, out of many that exist in the book. “You are here to decide if your life, relationships, and world are true and beautiful enough for you. And if they’re not, and you dare to admit they’re not, you must decide if you have the guts, the right — perhaps even the duty — to burn down what’s not true and beautiful and start building what is.” I use that as a guide when I am confused or stuck. It’s a reminder for me to live authentically and go after the life I truly want, no matter how scary or unconventional it might seem.
Do you have a favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
Yes — “Be happy and don’t suck.”
When my son was just starting to drive, he dropped by my workplace. I had a meeting, so I asked him to put his artistic talents to good use and doodle something on my office whiteboard. When I returned, I was greeted by a bold message: “Be happy and don’t suck.” I burst out laughing and couldn’t resist asking him where he got that from and why he wrote it.
He said when he was in 3rd grade, I told him that was the secret to life. It was a simple yet profound piece of advice that had stuck with him ever since. While I didn’t recall saying those exact words, it struck me how wise that sentiment truly was.
For me, “Be happy and don’t suck” isn’t just about personal happiness; it’s about integrity and authenticity in everything we do. It reminds me to keep my word to myself and others. Whether it’s in my personal relationships, my work, or just how I show up in daily life, this motto serves as a guiding principle to always strive to bring joy and avoid draining energy from others.
This experience reaffirmed that sometimes the simplest advice can be the most powerful. It’s a reminder to always aim to leave a positive impact wherever I go. It’s about how I interact with others and show up in the world. I won’t always get it right 100% of the time, but I will try.
How have you used your success to make the world a better place?
I’ve always been driven to help others see the potential in themselves that they might not recognize. I bring my own battle scars and experiences to every situation, using humor to remind people that life’s messy for all of us — no one’s perfect, and we all trip and fall more than we’d like. I also enjoy nudging people out of their comfort zones because that’s where real growth and discovery happen.
Life is full of challenges, and I’ve learned that facing them with gratitude can turn even the toughest situations into opportunities for learning and growth. Through my own journey, I’ve seen how powerful it can be to shift my perspective and tackle challenges with a positive attitude. I hope to inspire others to do the same.
My goal isn’t to spread toxic positivity; it’s to foster a growth mindset where we can learn from each other and navigate adversity. It’s about encouraging confidence, optimism, and the courage to pursue what truly matters in life. And I view it like this — even if I only helped a handful of people rethink and achieve their happiness, I suppose even then, I have helped make the world a better place.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. According to this report, only about 31.7% of top executive positions across industries are held by women. This reflects great historical progress, but it also shows that more work still has to be done to empower women. In your opinion and experience what is currently holding back women from leadership and management?
First, gender bias and stereotypes about what women are supposed to be are still very much alive and well. We’re still seen differently than men, especially at work. This impacts our pay, opportunities for promotion, and recognition. Plus, we still face discrimination and harassment, probably more than most people want to admit. I recently read that 9 out of 10 women have experienced workplace sexual harassment in the last year! Even if it was 5 out of 10, it’s clear that we can’t and don’t always feel psychologically safe at work. Even subtle incidents can feel like trauma and can cause stress that shows up in many ways. Others might not see these impacts, but they take a toll. We constantly question what we should wear to work, if something is too much or too little, if our shoes are appropriate, if our lipstick is too red. It’s exhausting. And it’s wrong. It makes us doubt ourselves, withdraw, become less vocal, or shut down because we know that if we speak up, we risk being labeled as aggressive, dramatic, or bossy.
Putting that aside, balancing work-life also continues to be a significant challenge. While more men are taking on family roles than before, the responsibility still falls mainly on women and the pandemic illuminated this. During the pandemic, everything changed, and women workers were hit hard. Most of the jobs that disappeared were held by women, and as schools and childcare providers closed, women had to navigate not just a health crisis and an economic crisis but also a caregiving crisis. Millions of women left the labor force entirely in 2020 and 2021. The American Bar Association reported that by February 2021, women’s labor force participation rate hit a low last seen in 1988, erasing an entire generation of progress!
And then of course, there’s the ever-present 80 cents to a dollar pay gap. Yes, we’ve come a long way from 1970 when we couldn’t even get our own credit cards, but we clearly still have a long way to go to achieve equity.
This might be intuitive to you but I think it will be helpful to spell this out. Can you share a few reasons why more women should become leaders and managers?
I’d rather stay clear of generalizations in answering this and stick to what various studies in neuroscience and psychology show to be true. Research has shown that there are differences in brain structure and function between men and women that can influence behavior and skills. For example, studies using brain imaging techniques have found that women have more connections between the left and right hemispheres of the brain, which is associated with better verbal communication and multitasking abilities. Additionally, research indicates that women generally have more mirror neurons than men, which are related to empathy and the ability to understand and share the feelings of others. Neuroscientific research also suggests that women have larger areas of the brain responsible for executive function and cognitive control, contributing to better multitasking skills. Psychological studies have found that women tend to be more risk-averse compared to men, leading to more cautious and sustainable decision-making in business environments. Furthermore, women tend to have larger connections between the brain areas responsible for logical and intuitive thinking, fostering a balance that enhances teamwork and collaboration. These findings come from a combination of brain imaging studies, psychological research, and behavioral science, providing a comprehensive view of the strengths women bring to leadership and management roles. We can argue emotions, but we cannot argue facts.
Can you please share “5 Things We Need To Increase Women’s Engagement in Leadership and Management?”
1. Uncover conscious biases. Conscious biases against women in leadership are often direct and deliberate. You see it when women get left out of important roles or decision-making, get paid less than men for the same jobs, or miss out on promotions. These biases are all about the belief that women are too emotional and aren’t as capable or committed to make big decisions. These biases contribute to hostile work environments through harassment and undermining women’s authority. All this holds women back from advancing and succeeding in leadership.
2. Embrace cognitive and neuro-psychological strengths.
Women often bring unique cognitive strengths to leadership roles, such as enhanced empathetic understanding, collaborative problem-solving, and holistic decision-making. Research shows that these strengths can lead to more inclusive and innovative outcomes in team environments compared to more traditional hierarchical leadership styles often associated with men. By recognizing and valuing these strengths, organizations can foster a more balanced and effective leadership approach that benefits everyone.
3. Expose unconscious biases. Unconscious biases against women in leadership come from deep-seated stereotypes. Society still sees men as the assertive leaders and expects women to be nurturing and less authoritative. It sets up hurdles like the “double bind,” where women have to be both competent and likable, and the maternal bias, which questions their dedication to work. Successes often get chalked up to luck or help, while failures are seen as personal flaws. Powerful, successful women are often viewed as bossy and aggressive. These biases are constantly working behind the scenes and have a huge impact on women’s chances and experiences in leadership roles.
4. Increase mentorship opportunities. When it comes to mentorship in leadership, men usually have easier access to formal programs in their industries or organizations compared to women. It’s especially tough for women in male-dominated fields to find mentors who get relate to their career challenges. Mentorship is key for career growth, but historically, men have had more opportunities with senior male mentors in top positions. Fortunately, there has been a recent push to create more mentorship opportunities specifically for women with the goal to build networks, tackle gender barriers, and promote inclusive leadership. We have to continue to level the playing field so everyone — regardless of gender — gets a fair shot at leadership success.
5. Confront harassment head-on. The statistics show a clear imbalance that messes with both job satisfaction and mental health. These experiences create a toxic culture that eats away at trust and makes it harder for women to get ahead in leadership roles. When women feel sidelined or worry about retaliation, they’re less likely to go for promotions or speak up. And all too often, cases of harassment are swept under the rug to save face. Feeling unsafe at work — whether mentally or physically — holds back progress and makes it difficult to push for fairness and inclusivity.
In your opinion, what systemic changes are needed to facilitate more equitable access for women to leadership roles?
Identifying potential women leaders early is essential. Encouraging women to participate in STEM programs and male-dominated fields benefits everyone, starting K-12 through university and into their careers. Connecting women with female mentors, involving them in emerging leader programs, and recognizing their contributions are crucial as well. Companies need to actively facilitate women’s participation in professional organizations led by women and must prioritize continuous professional development. Additionally, promoting allyship is crucial; it shouldn’t solely be women’s responsibility. Male executives can be our best allies, using their influence to advance gender equity effectively.
What strategies have you found most effective in mentoring and supporting other women to pursue leadership positions?
In my experience, being a positive role model is number one. I try and show that you can be feminine but strong, serious and funny, and you can do the hard things, even when others doubt you. I try and lead without judgment as well, as I know this creates a positive, safe environment where women can question and learn. I always encourage women to be as involved as possible with networking and skill-building events that can open doors and opportunities. Lastly, I just try and listen. We have so much on our plates, and when we know that other women hear us and understand, it goes a long way in building self-confidence and courage.
How would you advise a woman leader about how to navigate the challenges of being a woman in a leadership role within a male-dominated industry?
Navigating leadership as a woman in a male-dominated industry is all about strategy. First off, I recommend building a solid support network; get mentors and allies who know your worth and who have your back. Own your expertise and show what you can do to. Lead with confidence. Get out there and speak up in meetings, share your ideas, and make your presence known. But don’t just talk for the sake of talking. Wait for those moments where you can really add value. Ask open-ended questions that spark critical thinking and challenge people to think. Keep learning and take care of yourself. It’s about navigating these challenges with confidence and paving the way for more women leaders to come.
How do you balance the demand for authoritative leadership with the stereotypical expectations of female behavior in professional settings?
It’s all about authenticity for me. I take my work seriously, but I don’t take myself too seriously. And I will admit, it took years for me to get there. It’s not always easy. But having a sense of humor is my saving grace. It breaks down barriers and builds stronger relationships, making it easier to work with diverse personalities. I embrace being a woman and all that comes with it — being sensitive, caring, and unapologetically myself. I believe in being both fun and professional, kind yet strong, and celebrating others’ successes while pushing myself forward. These qualities coexist naturally in effective leadership; we don’t have to conform to outdated stereotypes to lead effectively. It’s about being true to ourselves while navigating the complexities of leadership with confidence and integrity.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
I’d focus on infusing more kindness and humanity into both business and everyday interactions. It starts with encouraging people to pause and genuinely listen to each other — really hear their stories, understand their needs, and appreciate their backgrounds. When we take that extra moment, we often discover surprising commonalities we didn’t notice before. Five minutes can create a ripple effect. Five minutes. We need to build bridges, not burn them down. Prioritizing people means genuinely caring about the well-being and growth of your team, customers, and communities. And when we put people first, everything else will fall into place more smoothly.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mindyvail/
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
About The Interviewer: Vanessa Ogle is a mom, entrepreneur, inventor, writer, and singer/songwriter. Vanessa’s talent in building world-class leadership teams focused on diversity, a culture of service, and innovation through inclusion allowed her to be one of the most acclaimed Latina CEO’s in the last 30 years. She collaborated with the world’s leading technology and content companies such as Netflix, Amazon, HBO, and Broadcom to bring innovative solutions to travelers and hotels around the world. Vanessa is the lead inventor on 120+ U.S. Patents. Accolades include: FAST 100, Entrepreneur 360 Best Companies, Inc. 500 and then another six times on the Inc. 5000. Vanessa was personally honored with Inc. 100 Female Founder’s Award, Ernst and Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year Award, and Enterprising Women of the Year among others. Vanessa now spends her time sharing stories to inspire and give hope through articles, speaking engagements and music. In her spare time she writes and plays music in the Amazon best selling new band HigherHill, teaches surfing clinics, trains dogs, and cheers on her children.
Please connect with Vanessa here on linkedin and subscribe to her newsletter Unplugged as well as follow her on Substack, Instagram, Facebook, and X and of course on her website VanessaOgle.
