Moving From Command & Control to Coaching & Collaboration: Heather Conklin of Torch On How Leaders and Managers Can Become Better Coaches
An Interview with Karen Mangia
Get curious. You need to have a deep curiosity about the person, coming from a place of care. See them not just as someone there to do a job, but as a whole human being with a life and story outside of work. When I first start working with people, I ask them about who they are and what makes them the way they are. When I see a team member struggling, I try to lean in to figure out what is really going on. As one of my favorites, Ted Lasso, says, “be curious, not judgemental.”
The number one leadership initiative in any organization today is improved coaching. Coaching empowers employees, empowerment drives engagement, and engagement drives performance. At its core, coaching is about transformation. Leading distributed teams requires transforming how we coach and changing our play calls and playbooks to get things done. As a part of our interview series called “Moving From Command & Control to Coaching & Collaboration; How Leaders and Managers Can Become Better Coaches,” we had the pleasure to interview Heather Conklin.
Heather Conklin is the CEO and former COO of leadership coaching platform Torch. Before joining Torch, she spent nine years at Salesforce, serving as senior vice president and general manager of the Trailhead business, where she focused on skilling and enablement and helped develop and grow the Salesforce ecosystem. She also created and led Salesforce’s Associate Product Manager program to build new product management talent into great future leaders.
Thank you for joining us to explore a critical inflection point in how we define leadership. Our readers would like to get to know you better. What was a defining moment that shaped who you are as a leader?
My defining moment as a leader was in 2019. While on maternity leave after my second daughter was born, I immersed myself in Brené Brown’s teachings. I learned a lot about vulnerability, courage and empathy. I had so many “a-ha” moments that I decided to bring what I learned back to work after my leave.
At the time, I was leading the Associate Product Manager program at Salesforce. I wanted to teach the associate product managers about these concepts. They were just starting their careers, and I hoped that it could have an even greater impact on them as future leaders. I felt like I was taking a big risk because these weren’t concepts discussed at work at the time. I worried they would think I had lost my mind on maternity leave, but I summoned my courage and went for it. I did my best to teach them the concepts and then we then did an activity where we opened up and shared our personal stories — who we are and how we got to that moment. It was an amazing experience and an honor to hear their stories. The connection created between the group was palpable and unlocked a whole new perspective on how we worked together, while also changing my view of my role as a leader.
John C. Maxwell is credited with saying, “A leader is someone who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way.” How do you embody that quote as a leader?
For me, it’s all about modeling what I want to see others do. I wouldn’t ask anyone to do something I wouldn’t do myself. I try to be very conscious of what I ask of others and how well I am personally demonstrating those behaviors as a leader. For example, if I want to see people take more risks or be less afraid of failure, then I have to show myself making mistakes and learning from them.
One of the biggest things I’ve learned as — both a leader and as a parent — is that your actions matter far more than your words. You can say all of the “right” things, but if your actions tell a different story, then you are not someone that people are going to trust and follow.
How do you define the differences between a leader as a manager and a leader as a coach?
I first learned what it meant to coach someone through my own experience having a coach. I believe leaders really need to have a coach of their own if they are going to effectively coach others. In my own coaching, I realized how different it felt to have someone truly listening to me and being there only in service of helping me be my best.
When you are managing, you are “in charge” of something, typically hands-on and directive. You are thought to be more knowledgeable and experienced than the rest of the team and your goal is to drive to a specific outcome.
In comparison, when coaching, you are in a less directive role and you see yourself as a guide to help other people find the answers. You also believe that the answers and collective work of the team are better than the answers you may have on your own. You are there to listen and learn, ask insightful questions to steer them, and reflect observations back to them. You are on the receiving end of what the individual contributes. Coaches operate under the belief that individuals know what’s best for themselves, offering guidance through questions and reflection, and holding people accountable to do what they say they are going to do.
We started our conversation by noting that improved coaching is the number one leadership initiative in any organization today. What are some essential skills and competencies that leaders must have now to be better coaches?
First, you must be a better listener. It is actually very challenging to be a great listener because we all have a lot going on in our minds. This makes it difficult to focus on another person and stay present, in a place of curiosity, and truly absorb everything they say without applying our own stories and judgments.
Another important concept is asking more powerful questions. We often ask close-ended questions that can be answered with a simple “yes” or “no,” or very tactical responses. However, if you think about your questions and try to make them more open-ended — coming from a place of genuine curiosity — you can elicit some very interesting responses from people.
We’re all familiar with the adage, “You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.” How are you inspiring — rather than mandating — leaders to invest in upskilling and reskilling?
I try to model being a “learn it all” instead of a “know it all”, a phrase I learned from Satya Nadella. I regularly share with my team where I am uncertain about things and need to learn more, where I am weak versus where I am strong, and share the skills and mindsets that I personally work on building.
There’s also the concept of radical candor. I try to be as honest and direct with people as I can, focusing on their strengths and what they bring to the table. Oftentimes, people shy away from having hard conversations. But as Brené Brown says, “Clear is kind.” I’ve always found that if you approach these conversations believing that a person is trying their best, making sure they understand where they’re not hitting the mark and showing that you believe in them, you can help them get to where they need to be with the right feedback and information. I believe this helps people work harder and invest more of their time and energy in improving, rather than approaching it from a place of deficiency, which often leaves them lacking the confidence to make the needed changes.
Let’s get more specific. How do you coach someone to do their best work? How can leaders coach for peak performance in our current context? What are your “Top 5 Ways That Leaders and Managers Can Be Effective Coaches?”
#1 — Get curious. You need to have a deep curiosity about the person, coming from a place of care. See them not just as someone there to do a job, but as a whole human being with a life and story outside of work. When I first start working with people, I ask them about who they are and what makes them the way they are. When I see a team member struggling, I try to lean in to figure out what is really going on. As one of my favorites, Ted Lasso, says, “be curious, not judgmental.”
#2 — Ask better questions and listen closely. Early in my career as a product manager, I learned that the first answer or request people have is not usually the real problem you need to solve. Asking why things are the way they are and digging deeper to understand the underlying needs and problems is crucial. By asking better questions and pressing on about the “why,” you often uncover a much richer underlying story. In my last few roles, I have done “office hours,” where I keep time open on my calendar to talk to anyone on the team about anything they want. And I don’t wait for them to come to me. I reach out and invite people to come and then do my best to ask questions and really listen to what they have to say. I first saw this modeled by Bret Taylor at Salesforce. It was such a simple and powerful way to really understand the people and the needs of the organization.
#3 — Model vulnerability. As a leader, you need your team to be honest, collaborative and innovative. All of those things require operating from a place of trust. But it’s difficult for them if you’re unwilling to be vulnerable and build that trust yourself. I try to be as authentic and transparent as possible, sharing what’s really going on in my work and life, as well as the stories and thoughts in my mind. Even admitting that I’m not sure of the right answer and need the team’s help can go a long way in building trust and encouraging others to open up.
#4 — Believe in the person’s greatness. As humans, we tend to doubt ourselves a lot, but all we really want is to be seen, heard and valued for who we really are. The more I tell people, “I believe in you and what you’re capable of,” the more I see them rise to the occasion. That gift was given to me by Bret Taylor when we started the Associate Product Manager Program at Salesforce and I have tried to pay it forward to as many other people as I can. Recently I had an associate product manager who was initially an underperformer in the program come back to me — many years later, after becoming one of our best APMs — and share that my belief in him and his abilities completely transformed the course of his career. For me, that’s what being a leader is all about — helping each person and the team as a whole be the best they can be.
#5 — Get comfortable with discomfort. Coaching is open-ended and requires you to operate from a new mindset of not knowing where conversations will lead or what the resolution will be. This brings uncertainty and the typical discomfort that comes with the fear of the unknown. You’re going to fumble and feel awkward sometimes. You will also push your team members to new places that make them uncertain and uncomfortable. Embracing that discomfort and learning from it is important.
We’re leading and coaching in increasingly diverse organizations. And one aspect of workforce diversity on the rise is generational diversity. What advice would you offer about how to effectively coach a multi-generational workforce? And how do you activate the collective potential of a multi-generational workforce?
We first need to recognize that there are significant differences between all people, regardless of the type of diversity we’re discussing. This is also true even when people may appear the same. People come into all situations with their own stories, biases and experiences, which shape who they are. When working with diverse teams and people in general, it’s essential to understand that we are all very different individuals.
Activating our collective potential comes from a deeper understanding of each other. By taking the time to learn about each person’s experiences and strengths, we can establish a real connection and a deeper appreciation for how they operate. This approach helps bring out the best in people from different generations and varied backgrounds.
You’re referring to emotional intelligence, in a sense. What are two steps every leader can take to demonstrate a higher level of emotional intelligence?
The first step is self-awareness. You can’t be emotionally intelligent with others if you’re not intelligent about your own emotions. Start by understanding more about yourself, what you value, and the thoughts and feelings that you experience personally. Having a coach has been the most helpful and impactful in building my self-awareness.
The second step is modeling vulnerability and openness. Sharing your own thoughts and feelings may feel risky and uncomfortable at first, but it makes you more relatable as a leader and opens you up to develop deeper connections and emotional understanding with others.
Words matter. And we’re collectively creating a new leadership language right now. What are the most important words for leaders to use now?
Fear. We have to talk about it more. People are uncertain and afraid for a lot of reasons in today’s ever-changing and very demanding environments. That’s completely normal. We can’t let our own fear get in the way of asking others what they are afraid of and uncovering new insights that we otherwise will miss.
Another key word is “compassion.” Showing genuine care for others is crucial right now. This means more than simply asking, “How was your weekend?” It’s about truly knowing and valuing the whole person across the table or on the other side of a screen. Being compassionate about their struggles and what they may be going through is important in establishing trust. Many leaders still believe that you need to work a certain number of hours or that taking time off will slow the company down. However, being compassionate and giving people the time and space they need can take you much further. Fundamentally, we are all humans outside of the roles we play at work.
I keep inspiring quotes on my desk. What’s your favorite “Life Lesson Quote,” and why does it mean so much to you?
I’ve used a few quotes from Brené Brown, but another one of hers that I live by is “Courage is contagious.”
This quote works for me in many different facets of my life. I’ve always found that leaning into being brave and afraid, and feeling like I am being very courageous with what I say or what I do has always led to the biggest growth for me, personally and professionally.
It’s also just incredible to see how demonstrating courage impacts others. When someone else sees you being brave and sharing your story, being vulnerable, admitting you don’t know, or raising your hand for something, they get inspired. It really does have a contagious feeling to it.
Our readers often like to continue the conversation. What’s the best way for readers to connect with you and to stay current on what you’re discovering?
Follow me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherconklin
Thank you for sharing your insights. We appreciate the gift of your time and wish you continued success and good health.
About The Interviewer: Karen Mangia is one of the most sought-after keynote speakers in the world, sharing her thought leadership with over 10,000 organizations during the course of her career. As Vice President of Customer and Market Insights at Salesforce, she helps individuals and organizations define, design and deliver the future. Discover her proven strategies to access your own success in her fourth book Success from Anywhere and by connecting with her on LinkedIn and Twitter.
