Neurodiversity in the Workforce: Geoff Smith Of Australian Spatial Analytics On Why It’s Important To Include Neurodiverse Employees & How To Make Your Workplace More Neuro-Inclusive

An Interview With Eric Pines

Self-advocacy. We bust the prevailing misconception that neurodivergent people don’t want to be in the limelight. Many love to share their stories of what it feels like to navigate a society made for the neurotypical mind. Many of our staff advocate for inclusivity by being on interview panels, presenting at industry events, and speaking at our Town Halls. It’s okay for neurodivergent people to say no to self-advocacy opportunities, but it is the collective responsibility of business leaders to ask.

Research suggests that up to 15–20% of the U.S. population is neurodivergent. There has been a slow but vitally important rise in companies embracing neurodiversity. How can companies support neurodiversity in the workplace? What are some benefits of including neurodiverse employees? To address these questions, we are talking to successful business leaders who can share stories and insights from their experience about “Neurodiversity in the Workforce”. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Geoff Smith.

Geoff Smith is the Chief Executive Officer of Australian Spatial Analytics (ASA). This Australian social enterprise provides geospatial and engineering careers to neurodivergent people, including those with autism. ASA’s mission is to bring neurodivergent people out of unemployment by matching their unique skills with industries experiencing labor shortages to provide professional data services — with the option to transition them to inclusive organizations to further their careers.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you ended up where you are?

I grew up in a small town in regional Australia called Allora, which has about 1,000 people. At a young age, I knew that most people in the town were worse off than my family. My father was the town dentist, and my mother was the proud operator of the only grocery store. However, I felt discomfort by the ease with which my career unfolded after a middle-class education that consisted of boarding school and university. After I finished university, I entered a graduate program at an oil and gas giant and became a well-paid analyst. So, what does any millennial do in this situation? I quit my job to teach English in Asia for over a year! After I had finished travelling, I then found my way into an executive position at a non-profit disability employment provider when I returned home.

My career, education and experience with young autistic people struggling throughout life culminated towards running something that could shake up the disability employment system by focusing on people’s strengths for training and employment opportunities. As a data analyst by trade, I know that technology can create work and wealth for disadvantaged communities. So, the amalgamation of this experience was a social enterprise that supported autistic people.

To give you some context, over 375,000 Australians live with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), 1 in 70 people. In Australia, we have a National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) that is only getting bigger and more expensive. More than a third of all NDIS participants name autism as their primary disability — 90% of these are under 25. The latest figures showed the NDIS paid over $AUD6.5 billion for autism-related conditions in the financial year ending 30 June 2023, compared to $AUD5.27 billion in the previous year — an increase of 28%. This is obviously not sustainable. Autism is the fastest-growing ‘disability’ in the Western world, yet few alternative pathways are available for them to access well-paid jobs in the big data economy.

I was frustrated by Australia’s disability employment system’s incentives to railroad neurodivergent candidates into any job vacancy available — a ‘place and pray’ recruitment methodology rather than a human-centered approach. I left my executive position at the non-profit to run ASA in 2020 as employee #1, then a new work-integrated social enterprise start-up idea created by White Box Enterprises. I was confident ASA would be successful because its customer value focuses on the talents of neurodivergent employees rather than their perceived ‘deficits’. I knew that matching a social enterprise with data services work was the way to bring neurodivergent young people into employment.

This is because a significant market problem provided a remarkable opportunity to ameliorate the spiraling social issue of high unemployment for neurodivergent people. When ASA started, the market problem included a digital skills shortage, a pandemic, geopolitical tensions in the Asia-Pacific region and cybersecurity concerns, which disrupted the offshoring of data processing projects for Australian corporations and government departments (85% of Australia’s data processing occurs offshore). Now, the economy has responded to this market and social problem. Since 2020, ASA has helped create geospatial and digital engineering careers for more than 150 young neurodivergent adults across metropolitan and regional Australia.

Our current statistics are:

• 120 employees (80% neurodivergent).
• 70% are in their first job.
• 61% have been long-term unemployed.
• 50 work permanent part-time or full-time.
• 28 working hours average per week.
• 7 have left disability support pensions.

You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?

Firstly, my leadership approach to my team is casual and towards a coaching style, which works well when leading a young team from different backgrounds, many of whom are new to the workforce. Formality and pretending you know what you’re doing because you’re the boss doesn’t work for me. Authoritarian or pacesetting leadership styles can make young people really uncomfortable, particularly those who have been mistreated for their differences in the past.

Secondly, I’ve learned to support the team in approaching me however they feel comfortable. For example, I used to find it hard to converse with team members when walking, as several liked to walk a little behind me because they were self-conscious about walking in parallel and making eye contact. Now I’m happy to have a meeting over my shoulder whilst walking. It might look a little odd to a passerby, but it’s how some people feel comfortable engaging!

Finally, I’m big on relationships. Your long-term progress will be defined by the helpful long-term relationships you create, whether it be through relationships with clients, or supporting people with career development.

Can you share a story about one of your greatest work-related struggles? Can you share what you did to overcome it?

In the early days of social entrepreneurship, remaining confident and optimistic was a major struggle. I often let my confidence bubble burst too quickly when inevitable setbacks transpired. I didn’t know how to deal with people saying ‘no’ to the idea of a company that harnesses the neurodivergent mind’s strengths. I couldn’t understand that not everyone was as into the organization’s purpose as I was. It’s easy to be myopic when you’re so into a new business, but people still have their own lives to get on with. So, when new potential customers or investors weren’t sold on my initial pitch to them, I became immensely frustrated and felt I’d let the unemployed autistic community down.

Now, I reframe the external scepticism as an opportunity. Wow, they haven’t heard about neurodiverse talent in the workplace or how much their team needs help with their data problems–here’s my opportunity to tell them more and make them a cheerleader too.

We took risks by bringing people in before money started coming through the door. However, we were employing team members who had never had a job before, training them, giving them great skill sets, and learning about great software in a supportive environment.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?

I’m really excited about our Talent Services offering, which is taking off and gaining momentum. This is where, after we provide on-the-job training for our data analysts, we then embed them within other inclusive organizations and environments to broaden their experience, with the potential to transition them to that company. We support both our transition candidates and the organization to ensure a seamless transition, which includes neurodiversity training.

This ensures our people grow personally and professionally, and our partners can confidently engage with and employ a neurodiverse workforce. One of our first transitions, a great guy called Blake Morrison, has worked long-term at the University of New England after spending many years struggling to find employment, with his contract recently extended for another three years. We’ve just embedded four of our data analysts into two external organizations, and they will be working in their new environment for 12 months. We had some incredible feedback about our neurodiversity training, to the point where we had client staff disclose they were neurodivergent for the first time.

We are also looking at broadening our client base across all sectors to bring even more neurodivergent people out of unemployment and open more offices across Australia.

Fantastic. Let’s now shift to our discussion about neurodiversity in the workforce. Can you tell our readers a bit about your experience working with initiatives to include neurodiverse employees? Can you share a story with us?

There are many barriers people on the autism spectrum face in getting their foot in the workplace door, given candidates are typically assessed by potential employers on their communication skills and ability to “sell themselves”. This outdated focus on past achievements drastically limits the opportunities for young neurodivergent people, who may be early in their careers or applying for their first job.

We must be more accommodating, especially in industries experiencing significant talent shortages, such as the data and technology sectors. The recruitment process should be modernized to recognize what candidates are capable of rather than how they are limited by what they have or haven’t done in the past. Job applications should be tailored to a neurodivergent candidate’s strengths and interests, but unfortunately, they aren’t.

We have a neurodivergent-friendly recruitment process where we provide questions to candidates 48 hours in advance so they can prepare adequately. We give them clear descriptions and visualizations of the interview environment. This helps minimize anxiety, which can sometimes be crippling. Once our new analysts join us, what we’ve found from lived experience is that many people with autism need relatively minor support in the workplace. It just requires an inclusive approach to communication and socializing.

Some examples of the support we provide to our neurodivergent team include:

• We discuss the workdays and hours that will suit them.
• ASA has dedicated People Success Officers (PSOs) in every office so our staff can access both professional and personal advice.
• We have an LGBTQIA+ Working Group, as people with autism are more likely to identify with this cohort.
• When we have social events, they are highlighted as voluntary to reduce anxiety about attendance.
• Other support includes encouraging assistance dogs to accompany employees in our offices.

When supported, neurodivergent people can be star performers, fun, fiercely loyal, and rally around a common purpose — everything you want in a team. Research suggests that neurodivergent people are, on average, better at pattern recognition, accuracy and diverse problem-solving. These are invaluable skills for the geospatial and engineering professions or any industry involving big data.

I have a great example of how transformative support can be. One of our data analysts was non-verbal when he started. He is now talking to our wider team and clients daily. If you give young neurodivergent people a chance, they will reward you. We’ve just started producing analyst stories to help reduce the stigma and assumptions society has about autism.

Most of our young, neurodivergent team have never successfully worked in the mainstream workforce as they have previously struggled to find supportive and secure long-term work. At ASA, these extraordinary young people are empowered to bring their exceptional problem-solving abilities, offering diversity to employment and benefitting the Australian economy. Instead of being destined to exist on the periphery of our communities, we empower autistic communities to break down the barriers to gainful employment. Every organization should use this approach.

This may be obvious to you, but it will be helpful to spell this out. Can you articulate to our readers a few reasons why it is so important for a business or organization to have an inclusive work culture?

If you don’t have an inclusive work culture, you have no idea what you’re missing out on.

Here is one telling example with economic and social implications: the Australian government’s employment white paper released recently calls for social enterprises like ASA to be backed to address the persistent labor market shortages by bringing disadvantaged people into work. This is significant, as more than 6.5 million big-data-related tech jobs are required in Australia by 2030 to keep up with technological transformation.

For example, a recent Consulting Surveyors paper stated that an additional 1,500 professionals are needed every year just to meet Australia’s demand. However, a large cohort of disadvantaged young adults have the right skills to meet this demand right now. By being inclusive, ASA aligns the amazing cognitive skills of the neurodivergent mind with professions in dire need of a skilled, motivated and proficient young workforce.

Because of this inclusive work culture, we consistently deliver professional, award-winning, high-quality data services for real-world projects, specializing in Geographic Information Systems (GIS), Surveys, Computer Aided Design (CAD), Building Information Modelling (BIM) and Machine Learning technologies. These data services in the geospatial and engineering professions are highly sought after and are essential for Australia’s economic prosperity; however, they are experiencing severe skills shortages. These skills are required to build Australia’s critical infrastructure, such as water and electrical infrastructure and the National Broadband Network.

We think of data analytics and processing as a trade or apprenticeship rather than looking at it through the usual prism of university or college. Many of our team members have tried tertiary education, and it didn’t work out for them, making it difficult for them to find employment.

Employers are recognizing that hiring autistic people can make good business sense. Being inclusive is related to the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), which are made up of 17 goals to address the world’s most significant development challenges. ASA is closely aligned to SDG 8 — Decent Work and Economic Growth targets: to promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.

There is no excuse for companies not expanding their approach to recruiting outside their immediate comfortable network. Looking beyond the traditional methods will only avail employers of the hidden talent that could be filling a need that they require. Here is a real-life example. One of our Lead Data Analysts, Harrison Mobbs, held down six casual jobs just to make ends meet before he started with us. He now regularly leads teams in delivering multiple digital engineering projects related to Australia’s critical infrastructure.

Can you share a few examples of ideas that were implemented at your workplace to help include neurodiverse employees? Can you share with us how the work culture was affected as a result?

We have several initiatives implemented that are based on our lived experiences. We see ourselves as one of four support pillars — Work, Family, Community and Professionals. When neurodivergent people join us as data analysts, we provide a supportive workplace, including environmental and management adjustments, to help them overcome their challenges. As mentioned previously, our workplaces also feature a dedicated PSO onsite. With a focus on life skills coaching, mentoring, and personal development, PSOs support all staff, focusing on neurodivergent staff, and ensure that ASA employees feel comfortable, capable and included.

Stress and anxiety are two of the most common challenges for autistic people, with 47% falling into the severe anxiety category. Environmental, social and sensory stressors and previous negative workplace experiences are some of the challenges preventing neurodivergent individuals from securing and maintaining employment. We adjust the workplace environment to suit their needs, such as encouraging people to bring their noise-cancelling headphones to block out loud noises. We also reduce the lighting intensity and have quiet spaces if they need time out.

When dealing with mental health issues, our PSOs talk to our staff in a designated safe space to discuss individual needs and suggest management strategies or external referrals where needed. This holistic approach helps our people do well in the workplace and personal lives.

What are some of the challenges or obstacles to including neurodivergent employees? What needs to be done to address those obstacles?

You know what? You don’t have to do that much. You just have to do the right things. There is a clear stigma around hiring people with a ‘disability’, which stems from a fear of the unknown. There is a strong misunderstanding that the term ‘disability’ refers to people with very high needs that will cause significant inconveniences for employers. There is a perception that neurodivergent employees are high maintenance for managers, but that’s not true. If they’re not given explicit instructions–which is easy in data processing–they can struggle and flounder. So, we all use a direct form of communication.

The more employers, recruiters, and employment service providers can work around the interests and passions of an employee, the better the outcomes will be for everyone. Too often, people with autism are pushed into roles they’re not interested in, ultimately setting them up for failure in a new job and further adding to stereotypes that people with a disability are challenging to work with or keep as long-term employees. The most overlooked solution to getting more people with a disability engaged in the workforce is just asking people what they enjoy doing.

When people tour our offices, including clients, they are inspired to see a workplace brimming with talented people working on complex projects whilst knowing that through the job, they are working on the social and communicative barriers that have deemed them vulnerable by society. We help them build their confidence and learn skills on the job, and then they deliver just as well as, if not better than, any other analysts I’ve ever worked with.

Regardless of whether staff are neurodivergent or not, we also hire people who are passionate about inclusion. We’ve found that because we provide a supportive working environment for neurodiverse people, our people have excelled at their work.

There are also other ways organizations can empower neurodivergent people. They can use their purchasing power to engage them in their supply chain, matching their skills with the organization’s needs. They should also partner with organizations that understand neurodiversity as this helps de-risk any perceptions of bad outcomes.

How do you and your organization educate yourselves and your teams on the concept of neurodiversity and the needs of neurodivergent employees? Are there any resources, training, or workshops that you have found particularly helpful?

We have many staff who have lived experiences with neurodiversity and especially autism. Some have children and know implicitly the barriers neurodivergent people have. We also have support staff and managers who are neurodivergent. We have accessed resources from multiple organizations that have helped all staff reach where we are today. These include external providers specializing in neurodiversity in the workplace research, autism advocacy organizations and government departments.

We now produce our own neurodiversity training modules for internal and external use. This incorporates all of the -real-life experiences and learnings we have accumulated in a workplace where neurodivergent employees vastly outnumber our neurotypical people. For all new staff, neurodiversity training is part of the onboarding and learning/development process. Some of the training modules include neurodiversity awareness, neuro-inclusive communication and managing neurodiverse staff.

Can you please share five best practices that can make a business place feel more welcoming and inclusive of people who are neurodivergent?

1 . Self-advocacy. We bust the prevailing misconception that neurodivergent people don’t want to be in the limelight. Many love to share their stories of what it feels like to navigate a society made for the neurotypical mind. Many of our staff advocate for inclusivity by being on interview panels, presenting at industry events, and speaking at our Town Halls. It’s okay for neurodivergent people to say no to self-advocacy opportunities, but it is the collective responsibility of business leaders to ask.

2 . Focus on peoples’ strengths. Everyone has development areas, but for some reason, business leaders focus on these first when it comes to neurodivergent people. Flip the narrative–focus on what neurodivergent people can bring to a team (memory, concentration, pattern recognition, humor etc.), then support with social or communicative barriers that may arise. We don’t focus on neurotypical employees ‘deficits’ first, so let’s level the playing field. We do this every day.

3 . Make onboarding unambiguous. First impressions are important. So when an employee starts, we don’t first go through all the policies, company strategy and interdepartmental introductions like many businesses do. We begin by showing them what project they will work on each day, how they will contribute, and who they can contact for support. This direct approach reduces the potential to be overwhelmed and immediately creates a sense of belonging. It’s important to let new employees know they are critical to the work we do. If we started with general discussions and policy manuals, it would be difficult for the employees to grasp how they add value, and this ambiguity can lead to poor outcomes. All the dry onboarding stuff can wait until later.

4 . Embrace as many diversity and inclusion initiatives as you can. Neurodivergent people are more likely to belong to other marginalized groups–20% of our team are with the LGBTQI+ community, for instance. If you’re singling out neurodiversity without embracing other initiatives, the intent of the welcome may not land.

5 . Seek feedback. I like to frame the question as, “Is there anything at work right now that makes you feel uncomfortable.” If you don’t dance around the question, it’s surprising how much great feedback you can receive. I recall one response at our workplace: “I don’t need a quiet room to process my thoughts. I just need to walk up and down the corridor.” Now we know when he is doing hot laps up and down the office, he’s okay and shouldn’t be interrupted.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share a story about how that was relevant in your own life?

“Experience is not what happens to you; it’s what you do with what happens to you.” Obviously, this is glib if you’ve been through significant trauma. Still, if you’re like me and can take the bumps and bruises of everyday life and business a tad too personally, it’s a good reminder that things aren’t usually as bad as they seem. My inner voice can be extra critical if I make a mistake or something doesn’t work out instantly at ASA. When I pause and remind myself of this quote during a moment of internal frustration, I instantly feel better and more determined to try again.

You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

Great question! I dream of inspiring a movement to de-professionalize entry-level white-collar employment, regardless of the industry. I think it’s insane that corporations require four-year college degrees for vacancies like analysts, administrators and consultants. The college degree is the gatekeeper, barricading people from diverse backgrounds (including neurodivergent people) from starting a rewarding professional career. The best way to learn is on the job, so let’s widen the net!

How can our readers further follow your work online?

You can always see what we’re up to on the Australian Spatial Analytics website, LinkedIn page, Facebook page and YouTube channel. You can also find out more about what we do at a TEDx talk I delivered about how autistic minds are primed to be rockstars of the big-data economy.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!

Thanks so much for this opportunity to showcase our work!

About the Interviewer: Eric L. Pines is a nationally recognized federal employment lawyer, mediator, and attorney business coach. He represents federal employees and acts as in-house counsel for over fifty thousand federal employees through his work as a federal employee labor union representative. A formal federal employee himself, Mr. Pines began his federal employment law career as in-house counsel for AFGE Local 1923 which is in Social Security Administration’s headquarters and is the largest federal union local in the world. He presently serves as AFGE 1923’s Chief Counsel as well as in-house counsel for all FEMA bargaining unit employees and numerous Department of Defense and Veteran Affairs unions.

While he and his firm specialize in representing federal employees from all federal agencies and in reference to virtually all federal employee matters, his firm has placed special attention on representing Veteran Affairs doctors and nurses hired under the authority of Title. He and his firm have a particular passion in representing disabled federal employees with their requests for medical and religious reasonable accommodations when those accommodations are warranted under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (ADA). He also represents them with their requests for Federal Employee Disability Retirement (OPM) when an accommodation would not be possible.

Mr. Pines has also served as a mediator for numerous federal agencies including serving a year as the Library of Congress’ in-house EEO Mediator. He has also served as an expert witness in federal court for federal employee matters. He has also worked as an EEO technical writer drafting hundreds of Final Agency Decisions for the federal sector.

Mr. Pines’ firm is headquartered in Houston, Texas and has offices in Baltimore, Maryland and Atlanta, Georgia. His first passion is his wife and five children. He plays classical and rock guitar and enjoys playing ice hockey, running, and biking. Please visit his websites at www.pinesfederal.com and www.toughinjurylawyers.com. He can also be reached at eric@pinesfederal.com.