Nohtal Partansky Of Sorting Robotics On The Future Of Robotics Over the Next Few Years

An Interview With David Leichner

You need to be able to work in a cross disciplinary team. Robotics is not just software and it’s not just hardware, it’s both. If both sides of the coin are not in lockstep then nothing ends up working. That means learning how to talk to mechanically minded people while being able to communicate to software minded people.

With the shortage of labor, companies are now looking at how robots can replace some of the lost labor force. See here for example. The truth is that this is not really a novel idea, as companies like Amazon have been using robots for a while now. What can we expect to see in the robotics industry over the next few years? How will robots be used? What kinds of robots are being produced? To what extent can robots help address the shortage of labor? Which jobs can robots replace, and which jobs need humans? In our series called “The Future Of Robotics Over The Next Few Years” we are talking to leaders of Robotics companies, AI companies, and Hi-Tech Manufacturing companies who can address these questions and share insights from their experience. As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Nohtal Partansky.

Nohtal Partansky, Co-Founder and CEO of Sorting Robotics, an industrial cannabis-focused AI and computer vision technology company, is a serial entrepreneur and former NASA-JPL engineer. During his time at NASA-JPL, Nohtal worked on a project called the MOXIE (Mars Oxygen In Situ Resource Utilization Experiment). MOXIE was a technology demonstrator to take in the atmosphere of Mars and produce oxygen for people to breathe; this was accomplished after the Perseverance rover landed on Mars in February 2021. After leaving NASA-JPL, Nohtal immediately founded Sorting Robotics with his two co-founders, Cassio Dos Santos Jr. and Sean Lawlor.

In 4 short years, Nohtal has led Sorting Robotics in building new innovative equipment for cannabis manufacturers and vertically integrated brands. While building Sorting Robotics, Nohtal witnessed firsthand how the lack of automation in the cannabis industry creates inefficiencies that degrade the smooth operation of the value chain and diminish profit margins. Today, Sorting Robotics is solving those problems with AI-driven machines deployed across multiple states and in Canada.

Nohtal is also the Founder and CEO of Rise Co-Packing, the premier automation-first co-packer for trimming, co-packing, and pre-rolls; he is also the Inventor of Jiko Joints, the first robotically infused badder cannabis pre-rolls currently available in dispensaries across California.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you got started in robotics?

My first exposure to robotics was when I played Sonic the Hedgehog on Sega Dreamcast. Eventually, getting into programming robotics in elementary school through summer camps and after-school programs. My first company was a desktop 3D printing company I started in graduate school and after that, I had extensive knowledge of building advanced robotics systems.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?

Our first product, The Roca Sorter, did inventory management for trading card companies, specifically those that sold Magic: The Gathering cards online. It was an awesome little device, but I remembered initially trying to sell that product and all of my potential customers were incredulous to the idea of a robot sorting touching and sorting their expensive cards. I had an intense amount of pushback from people proclaiming the device as being a “waste of money” and “too expensive”; then 2 years after we started selling the first units, it was amazing to see that people then called our system “the standard” and “critical to have.”

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“Everything in this world was created by people no smarter than you” — Steve Jobs

I remember watching an old interview of Steve Jobs while I was in college and that quote really stuck with me. It removed the mystique that the world around me was some sort of “Sacred Structure” that I had to simply accept. I could actually change the rules of the game because the rules were made by normal people that were in the right place at the right time.

Ok wonderful. Let’s now shift to the main focus of our interview. Can you tell our readers about the most interesting projects you are working on now?

The most interesting thing we are looking into are the full automation of co-packing lines in the cannabis industry. Currently, most of cannabis products are actually packed by hand in many parts of the country. It’s surprising to most people because they assume products come out of huge factories like a coca-cola bottling plant, but it is much more of a “craft brewery” style operation.

How do you think this might change the world?

Once we figure out how to automate the whole manufacturing process and build the “coca-cola style” cannabis factories this industry will actually be able to grow in a sustainable way. I think we’re just starting to understand the benefits of complex cannabinoids and that sophisticated manufacturing processes are a requirement to grow the industry.

Keeping “Black Mirror” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks about this technology that people should think more deeply about?

I remember watching an episode of Electric Dreams, which is similar to Black Mirror, and in that episode, there was a fully automated factory/corporation that controlled the population through the products it produced. Honestly, I thought it was pretty cool. I think AI, in general, is probably going to have some world changing effects that we have yet to comprehend. Like most things, I doubt humans will think to take the necessary steps before the bomb goes off.

What are the three things that most excite you about the robotics industry? Why?

1. There is a growing and pervasive desire to no longer do labor-intensive work all over the world, so that is driving the growth of the industry. Eventually, it will lead to a world where no one does manual labor and people can be free to live highly creative lives.
2. Finally, there are general platforms like the Boston Dynamics “Spot” that we (engineers) can build on top of to emulate human-specific activities.
3. Ideally, there will come a point when AI is self programmable and then we can have the Iron Man “Jarvis” as a general intelligence butler that can help clean the house but then also develop advanced manufacturing methods for future products.

What are the three things that concern you about the robotics industry? Why?

1. I think there is a non-zero chance that a “Terminator-esk” future is an inevitability. General Artificial Intelligence (GAI) seems extremely close (<20 years) and once that happens you can imagine that it will take less than a second for it to be the smartest/most knowledgeable being on the planet. After that, what does it do in the next second?
2. I think there is a lot of focus on robots for logistics because of Amazon, but there is not enough focus on where robotics can help everyday people in their daily lives.
3. The robotics industry is very hardware focused and the global supply chain is threatening the rapid development of the industry. If there is a world war and Asia becomes an enemy of the West, it will require a heavy lift from the West to make up the difference. Not impossible by any means, however, it will be a significant disruption to the process.

As you know, there is an ongoing debate between prominent scientists, (personified as a debate between Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg,) about whether advanced AI has the potential to pose a danger to humanity in the future. What is your position about this?

I answered this a little bit above, but I agree there is a huge question mark on what happens when GAI becomes a reality. I don’t really take sides on the subject as I see my company driving the technology forward regardless of the outcomes. I think it’s going to happen and I think it might not even happen in the United States; if that occurs, all bets are off.

My expertise is in product security, so I’m particularly interested in this question. In today’s environment, hackers break into the software running the robotics, for ransomware, to damage brands or for other malicious purposes. Based on your experience, what should manufacturing companies do to uncover vulnerabilities in the development process to safeguard their robotics?

This is very much on the top of our minds at my company. With the disclosure of Stuxnet and the attacks that were carried out using that tool, I think this raised the alarm bells for many people in the industry. Manufacturing companies really need to work with their equipment suppliers to make sure that these issues are addressed because without vigilance on the subject they could see attacks foreign or domestic that could be extremely costly.

Given the cost and resources that it takes to develop robotics, how do you safeguard your intellectual property during development and also once the robot is deployed in industry?

During the development stages we don’t see a large risk of theft, however, once we go to market there is definitely a high risk for copycats. A lot of what makes robotics magical is the integration of software and having the software work in concert with the hardware. It is so difficult to get the two to play nice, that the current state of the art copycats will usually fail in one domain or another. Additionally, all of our source code is encrypted and we have agreements with our customers that limit access to the robots.

Fantastic. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Create A Highly Successful Career In The Robotics Industry?

1. It depends on what your desired role is, however, no matter what you will need a fairly wide understanding of how mechanical systems work and where the current limits of robotic systems are.
2. If you’re looking for a technical role you will need to be a cross discipline engineer. That means if you are mechanical focused, you’ll need some knowledge of software. If you are software focused, you’ll need some knowledge of hardware.
3. Ideally, a strong desire to work in AI and hardware. The hardware aspect of robotics is probably the most difficult part of the equation, because unlike software focused AI, you can’t easily fix catastrophic bugs. In robotics a poorly written line of code could destroy hundreds of thousands of dollars of hardware and set a project back several months. A strong desire for working with hardware is critical to get through the problems that will inevitably arise.
4. You need to be able to work in a cross disciplinary team. Robotics is not just software and it’s not just hardware, it’s both. If both sides of the coin are not in lockstep then nothing ends up working. That means learning how to talk to mechanically minded people while being able to communicate to software minded people.
5. Previous experience with robotics is a must. Without any previous robotics experience I would find it surprising if you would be able to break into the industry regardless of your discipline. That means either doing a project by yourself or interning or joining a club that is building and testing robots. An employer wants to know that you can be trained to refine your skills, they don’t want to take a guess on if you have the skills at all.

As you know, there are not that many women in this industry. Can you advise what is needed to engage more women in the robotics industry?

I think continuing STEM education is incredibly important. I do think it is slowly getting better. If you look at the robotics clubs at the elementary school level, the gender breakdown is almost 50/50. However, currently it is extremely difficult to find women robotics engineers. There are only a few of them so they end up being difficult to hire into a team. I highly value a diverse workforce and if you look at our company roster, it looks like the UN, however, finding a Tier 1 R&D female robotics engineer is a tough task because there simply aren’t that many.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

I would want the world to start embracing UBI as the future for an automated society.

How can our readers further follow your work online?

Following me on LinkedIn is probably the best place to see any interesting publications, and SortingRobotics.com is where readers can check out more of our work in the robotics space.

Thank you so much for the time you spent doing this interview. This was very inspirational, and we wish you continued success.

About The Interviewer: David Leichner is a veteran of the Israeli high-tech industry with significant experience in the areas of cyber and security, enterprise software and communications. At Cybellum, a leading provider of Product Security Lifecycle Management, David is responsible for creating and executing the marketing strategy and managing the global marketing team that forms the foundation for Cybellum’s product and market penetration. Prior to Cybellum, David was CMO at SQream and VP Sales and Marketing at endpoint protection vendor, Cynet. David is the Chairman of the Friends of Israel and Member of the Board of Trustees of the Jerusalem Technology College. He holds a BA in Information Systems Management and an MBA in International Business from the City University of New York.