Power Women: Donna Harris of Bookkeeping Made Simple On How To Successfully Navigate Work, Love and Life As A Powerful Woman

An Interview With Ming Zhao

Don’t take anyone’s advice unless they are more successful than you are. Mediocre people give mediocre advice. They will try to tear you down to their level. Powerful women are best served taking advice from powerful, successful individuals. Successful people understand that their success depends on the success of others, and they will do their best to lift you up. You may choose coaches who are great at helping people in specific areas of their lives, and I recommend that, but make sure the people you surround yourself with are happy to share their successes and avoid those who prefer to be negative and jealous when things go well for you.

How does a successful, strong, and powerful woman navigate work, employee relationships, love, and life in a world that still feels uncomfortable with strong women? In this interview series, called “Power Women” we are talking to accomplished women leaders who share their stories and experiences navigating work, love and life as a powerful woman.

As a part of this series I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Donna Harris.

Donna Harris is the owner of Bookkeeping Made Simple (http://MySimpleBookkeeping.com ). She is the firstborn of 8 children and a mother of 5. She is currently completing an MBA and growing her business.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood “backstory”?

I’m the first of eight children. I grew up in the north end of Seattle, and we relocated to southwestern Kentucky when I was 14. As you can imagine, that was quite a culture shock. In Seattle, my parents owned a pest control business that my mother essentially ran out of our home, so I always expected to have both a full-time career and be a wife and mother.

Can you tell us the story about what led you to this particular career path?

One of the memories that has really stayed with me is going to Radio Shack with my dad when I was little. At the time, modems were just coming onto the scene — you know, the kind you set the handset of your landline phone in and called out. When I saw it, I remember thinking that I would be able to have it all — a rewarding career while still staying home with my kids, much like I saw my mother doing.

I started out with a computer science major, but after having children I discovered that I just couldn’t keep up with the rapid strides that industry was making, so I fell back to accounting and bookkeeping since I have a talent with numbers. I also discovered that I don’t like being an employee — I enjoy being in a leadership position and didn’t like dealing with the office politics and difficult policies that large corporations tend to have in place. Once I realized I liked bookkeeping, I started my own business so I could work from home and achieve my dream.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?

It always amazes me what people think qualify as business expenses. I had to tell one client that his prostitutes and porn sites were not legitimate business expenses, which I still laugh about. If only he had run an escort agency rather than a construction business!

You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?

Resiliency and an ability to not take things personally is first. You’re never going to be able to please everyone, so when a client drops off or there is a conflict, it’s important to not take it personally. It may just be a personality conflict, or even the client having a bad day. If I make a mistake in any way, I try to learn from it, so I can improve our processes and procedures, so we can better serve our clients.

I also think the ability to delegate is critical. If I try to do my staff’s work for them, I get overwhelmed very quickly — I’m still learning to trust my staff to take care of their clients. I have fantastic bookkeepers working for me, and they’re more than able to handle their clients without me butting in. I recently dealt with a client who kept reaching out to me rather than his assigned bookkeeper, and then got mad and quit when I wasn’t able to respond to him quickly, when we had continued to ask him to contact the bookkeeper instead of me. I try to give everyone the personal touch, but sometimes it’s just not possible to do that, which is why I hire great people.

The third trait is having healthy boundaries. There are clients who just can’t be pleased no matter what, and it’s better for everyone to let that client find a better fit than to try to please someone who is not going to be happy no matter what. I recently had a client who complained to me every time her bookkeeper missed a call from her, so we let her go rather than allow her to continue her misbehavior.

Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. The premise of this series assumes that our society still feels uncomfortable with strong women. Why do you think this is so?

I think it’s a complicated issue. Many men are intimidated by strong women if they are not strong themselves. In fact, I would say that strong people in general intimidate those who are weak or who perceive themselves as weak. Most people aren’t mentally, physically, or emotionally very strong. We live in such unprecedented prosperity today that it’s easy for a lot of people to coast without having to face the adversity that creates strength. Much like physical strength training, being a strong person requires working through difficulties and adversity and discovering your strength as a result.

For men, it can be difficult to face the idea that the woman they are with can live without them just fine. Strong men, though, know they can complement strong women and become true power couples. The man in my life today is a protector and breadwinner, and rather than fight against each other, we look for ways to balance and support each other.

Without saying any names, can you share a story from your own experience that illustrates this idea?

Sure. My ex-husband is an immature person. He would undermine my efforts to hold a job, expand my education, or even attend worship services for my religious faith. His parents indulged his every whim, so he’d never had a real chance to grow, even after serving in the US Army for a few years. He could have been an amazing person but chose instead to not make the effort. He preferred to belittle and gaslight me. It took me a while to recover from his abuse, but I’m a more powerful person because of it.

In contrast, my current partner works very hard to be the best person he can be, has gone through some very difficult, even life threatening, experiences, and supports me as I learn and grow. His goal for both of us is for us to reach our fullest potential, both individually and as a couple. Powerful women and powerful men make great teams.

What should a powerful woman do in a context where she feels that people are uneasy around her?

It depends on the context. I really try to be mindful of others, but at the same time, I’m not going to hide my strength just because someone is uneasy. Let’s be honest — if I’m the smartest person in the room, I’m in the wrong room. I try to spend time with people who are comfortable with me, because they challenge me.

What do we need to do as a society to change the unease around powerful women?

The unease often comes from envy and insecurity. I’ve been shocked at women who have told me that they couldn’t do what I do. I don’t even consider what I do all that to brag about — it needs to be done, so it gets done. I’ve traveled alone and lived abroad with small children, homeschooled my kids as a single mother, found a way to work from home to pay the bills, and that makes other people very uncomfortable. Either they believe they can’t do it themselves (they could, if they wanted to) or feel very insecure because I am challenging the status quo simply by living my life the way I want to live it. I don’t know what society needs to do, other than make these sorts of things the norm. I don’t see that happening, honestly. I think people like having their excuses to not live their lives to the fullest. It’s sad, really — we only have one life. Too many people don’t really live.

In my own experience, I have observed that often women have to endure ridiculous or uncomfortable situations to achieve success that men don’t have to endure. Do you have a story like this from your own experience? Can you share it with us?

I have had male clients refuse to listen to my advice — and had to ask a male friend to “tell them what I just told them but in a deeper voice.” It’s very frustrating to have someone, particularly men, refuse to listen to me just because I’m a woman — especially when I’m the expert.

In your opinion, what are the biggest challenges faced by women leaders that aren’t typically faced by their male counterparts?

Women still must work twice as hard to be considered half as good, and we still must contend with the “second shift” of homemaking and childcare. We spend more time and money on grooming and makeup and deal with judgement from both men and women. We must justify our childcare choices, cope with caretaking of elderly parents, and be all things to all people. Men usually don’t have to deal with the children, house, cooking, cleaning, remembering important dates. It seems that women carry most of the burden of society — and I don’t see that changing much.

Let’s now shift our discussion to a slightly different direction. This is a question that nearly everyone with a job has to contend with. Was it difficult to fit your personal and family life into your business and career? For the benefit of our readers, can you articulate precisely what the struggle was?

I conducted my business, career, and education as a single mother, so it was a greater struggle for me than for a lot of people. Rather than go to a job outside the home, however, I found ways to work from home and make enough to cover the bills. The rise of online, remote education, particularly when self-paced, was a great help. Once I was able to work full time and attend school, both from home, without leaving my small children, was life changing. I didn’t have much of a social life for a few years, but I felt that being there for my children when they were young was more important at the time. I felt it was critical to prioritize my time and dating and social life were at the bottom of the list for a long while. Mothers of young children often forget how quickly that time goes — I often say that the days drag on forever, but the years go past in the blink of an eye.

What was a tipping point that helped you achieve a greater balance or greater equilibrium between your work life and personal life? What did you do to reach this equilibrium?

When the Internet and technology caught up to my vision of using tech to work from home. I know everyone’s tired of it after the past couple of years, but working my own hours, working at home, and being my own boss was a godsend to me. Not many employers would have allowed me to have a three-year-old on my lap while working. Choosing a career where I had control over my time — and seeing the rise of texting and instant messaging — also helped tremendously. As an accountant, I spend my time behind screens and can work at strange hours if I prefer. Being able to schedule emails for later also helped when I was working at 2am while my kids were sleeping.

I work in the beauty tech industry, so I am very interested to hear your philosophy or perspective about beauty. In your role as a powerful woman and leader, how much of an emphasis do you place on your appearance? Do you see beauty as something that is superficial, or is it something that has inherent value for a leader in a public context? Can you explain what you mean?

I hear a lot of people — men and women — brag about working at home in their pajamas. I have never done that. I take great pride in my appearance, and during work hours I dress as a CEO. Even at home, and even down to the high heeled shoes I love to wear. I wear makeup every day and take good care of my skin. I believe that the outward appearance reflects inward beliefs, so I dress and groom myself to present myself as someone of value. I know a lot of people today work in a very casual environment, but I still believe that looking good is critically important.

How is this similar or different for men?

The time and money investment for men is lower. I have thick, wavy, blonde hair to the middle of my back, which takes an hour and several different products to wash, style, and dry. My boyfriend puts a dab of gel in his hair and looks great in 30 seconds. Although it takes less time for him, I think the principle is the same — choose how you wish to present yourself.

Also, men are allowed to age. Gray hair on men is often considered “distinguished” while on women it comes across as just “old,” since biology dictates that women of reproductive age are considered more physically attractive than older women. So, we ladies get our hair colored, get Botox and other injectables, facials, nails done, lash extensions, and so forth. Beauty advertisements are targeted almost exclusively toward women. I embrace the differences — I like being rather high maintenance and very traditionally feminine — but I still recognize that they exist.

Ok super. Here is the main question of our interview. Based on your opinion and experience, what are the “Five Things You Need To Thrive and Succeed as a Powerful Woman?” (Please share a story or example for each.)

First, a thick skin. People will be envious and will try to treat you poorly if they believe you are more powerful than they are. It’s not you, it’s them. Let them stew in their mediocrity — don’t let them get you down. This is where victim culture becomes a real problem. Don’t let criticism, judgment, or envy bother you.

Second, don’t take anyone’s advice unless they are more successful than you are. Mediocre people give mediocre advice. They will try to tear you down to their level. Powerful women are best served taking advice from powerful, successful individuals. Successful people understand that their success depends on the success of others, and they will do their best to lift you up. You may choose coaches who are great at helping people in specific areas of their lives, and I recommend that, but make sure the people you surround yourself with are happy to share their successes and avoid those who prefer to be negative and jealous when things go well for you.

Third, be willing to learn from your mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes — the trick is to take those mistakes and turn them into the valuable lessons they are. I am constantly evaluating anything in my life or work that causes me concern — anything from difficult clients to an argument with my boyfriend — to see what I can learn from my experience and use to improve myself and / or my business, and then either work on myself or improve processes and procedures for my company. The lessons learned this way are even more valuable than formal education ever has been. Growth really happens when you deal with mistakes or adversity, so take advantage of those priceless lessons.

Fourth, never stop educating yourself. I read over 150 books a year on average, on a huge range of subjects. Success leaves clues, and many successful people are glad to share those clues with you in their books and biographies. I read everything, even (and especially) things I disagree with. I like to look at how others view the world. A huge problem with our society today is the attitude so many people have of knowing everything. I know I am ignorant in a lot of areas, and my views have evolved over time.

Finally, be kind — but don’t mistake kindness for niceness. Too many people confuse niceness with kindness. Being nice often involves allowing people to do things that are truly harmful, when being kind often involves calling people out on their weaknesses in the hope of bringing them to light for improvement, which may cause discomfort and even anger. Women in particular, at least in my experience, like to be nice even at their own expense. Stand up for yourself, be firm in your principles, be professional, but don’t worry too much about being nice. In my case it was fighting back hard against an abuser, and having him arrested, rather than allowing him to continue his conduct. Eventually, he realized how much he had lost and is currently a pastor and has been able to have fulfilling relationships, just not with me.

We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.

Elon Musk, Robert Downey Jr, Lori Greiner, or Ryan and Amy Stewman.

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.