Preparing For The Future Of Work: Madhu Chamarty of BeyondHQ On The Top Five Trends To Watch In The Future Of Work

An Interview with Phil La Duke

The shift to remote work and companies operating with greater geographically distributed teams, resulting from how the pandemic drove knowledge workers out of the office and companies having to quickly pivot to support remote workers. This shift has enabled companies to reduce their physical footprint and resulting costs, and opened up the talent pool to a broader range of people across different markets.

There have been major disruptions in recent years that promise to change the very nature of work. From the ongoing shifts caused by the COVID19 pandemic, the impacts caused by automation, and other possible disruptions to the status quo, many wonder what the future holds in terms of employment. For example, a report by the McKinsey Global Institute that estimated automation will eliminate 73 million jobs by 2030.

To address this open question, we reached out to successful leaders in business, government, and labor, as well as thought leaders about the future of work to glean their insights and predictions on the future of work and the workplace.

As a part of this interview series called “Preparing For The Future Of Work”, we had the pleasure to interview Madhu Chamarty, CEO of BeyondHQ.

Madhu Chamarty is the founder and CEO of BeyondHQ, a startup that helps companies plan and scale distributed teams. An engineer and math nerd at heart, he has 15+ yrs of startup experience in Silicon Valley, as an early employee and co-founder at 3 high-growth B2B startups in digital media (Adify — Cox acq. @ $300MM), employee communities (Dynamic Signal), and geospatial analytics (Descartes Labs). Madhu has scaled sales & support teams globally, in both colocated and remote formats. He grew up in a fully distributed family across 4 countries, so believes he was destined to build BeyondHQ even before he knew it.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Our readers like to get an idea of who you are and where you came from. Can you tell us a bit about your background? Where do you come from? What are the life experiences that most shaped your current self?

I am an engineer by training, and come from a family that has lived, studied, and worked in 7 countries: India, Saudi Arabia, Ireland, Canada, Curacao, Antigua, and the United States. I am a math-nerd at heart, and studied math (surprise surprise), computer science, and electrical engineering in undergrad and grad school. Living in many countries meant that my parents (both practicing doctors to this day) and sister (also pursuing a medical career) and I have essentially been a globally distributed team, ever since I was about nine. I come from a lower-middle class family in India, and thanks to relentless support and unconditional love from my grandparents and parents, I am who I am today.

In terms of life experiences that helped shape my current self, I will attempt to be brief yet candid in my description. Living in different countries made me develop the ability to embrace and adapt to new cultures, languages, accents, and social norms. The sudden passing of my grandparents in my teens force-taught me to cope with any drastic unexpected change, quickly. My parents showed me the value of hard and patient work, over long periods of time (as is often the case with medical careers). Working with ambitious and demanding teams and customers at tech companies throughout most of my past 16+ professional years made me develop a strong appetite for tech-driven societal change. Many good mentors throughout these years helped me channel that appetite into a pursuit of compassionate capitalism. I am thankful for it all, and am always striving to demonstrate a net-positive impact on society through my professional and personal actions.

What do you expect to be the major disruptions for employers in the next 10–15 years? How should employers pivot to adapt to these disruptions?

The most significant disruption that the pandemic has brought to the forefront is the shift in power dynamic between the employer and the employee. A few observations play on repeat in my mind:

• I believe that the Next Industrial Revolution is here, and is defined by the transformation in which talent, more than capital, becomes the most critical factor for business. As we begin our journey into this new revolution, we face both promise and peril depending on the way that individuals, businesses, and government act — together. For the first time, can business become more human and profitable at the same time?
• Workers in tech-enabled companies are demanding — and getting — greater empowerment, choice, and flexibility in the workplace. Forward-thinking organizational leaders are tackling the challenging issues around where, when, and how to scale their workforce and workplace. They are moving from infrequent high capex discussions (single HQ) to ongoing conversation around distributed low capex solutions (homes and hubs and remote work).
• Organizational silos around decision-making for a company’s location strategy will continue to be torn down. HR and Real Estate will work more closely together with Finance, and with all other departments, to ensure the organization is always thinking about where to evaluate, hire, redistribute, etc. The point-in-time Annual Planning for headcount and real estate will die off, making way for continuous agile planning.
• Mental Health & Well-being will no longer be treated as optional peripheral benefits for the workforce, but as essential attributes. This will lead to a thorough redefinition of what productivity is, and how it will be tracked.
• Workforce Diversity, focusing on gender, race, age, religion, and socio-economic strata, will become a much more existential necessity, powering competitiveness and business growth. This will require companies to go to hubs of diversity globally, and once again, drive significant and much-needed changes in talent analytics and recruitment strategies company-wide.
• The technology stack for almost every aspect of a company’s operations will look very different in 10–15 years, and its half-life will continue to drop. Whether it is satellite imagery for monitoring global supply and demand, AI-powered chatbots for customer service, blockchain-powered asset tracking and security, or new forms of measuring productivity with a workforce consisting of digital nomads, the employer has to embrace a greater infusion of technology-powered processes in every aspect of operations.
• More and more future workers will present their candidacy through a combination of skills not necessarily all acquired through a standard 4-year college. The war for talent in the future will be based on skills more than on college degrees. Online education, rapidly changing job requirements, and technological change will all reward creative approaches to upskilling, and employers not recognizing this will miss out on top workers.

A few ways in which employers can stay abreast of these disruptions:

• Embrace the changes in the employee-employer dynamic highlighted by the pandemic, and reexamine how each aspect of people operations can be redefined to embrace long-term change. There is no returning to what worked, only building anew what will work.
• Recognize that ‘where’ work gets done will be increasingly geographically distributed, and this distribution will change more often than it has before. Continuously tracking and comparing talent availability, costs, business environment, quality of life, and location-specific activity globally will give employers a competitive edge.
• Commit to truly investing in workforce diversity, and even demonstrating that investment to employees, customers, and society. The benefits will outweigh any costs of the initial investment — many studies and much data already bear evidence of this. As work goes global, this investment will become even more critical.
• Reskill and upskill your employees, as they will be your best assets to keep up with the rapid pace of technology-powered change across all aspects of the company. There is mounting evidence of this effect (examples: here, here, and here).
• With so many aspects of employee experience starting to change, across industries, revisit and revamp your recruiting experience. 49% of job-seekers working in highly in-demand sectors like tech have already shared how they have turned down job offers due to a poor hiring process. This % is likely to grow if employers don’t adapt to the emerging hybrid world of work.
• Finally, consider promoting a more fulfilling job opportunity, not just a commercially lucrative one. Offering roles with a broad range of roles & responsibilities will become a secret weapon for employers.

The choice as to whether or not a young person should pursue a college degree was once a “no-brainer”. But with the existence of many high profile millionaires (and billionaires) who did not earn degrees, as well as the fact that many graduates are saddled with crushing student loan debt and unable to find jobs it has become a much more complex question. What advice would you give to young adults considering whether or not to go to college?

Really short answer: focus on skills more than on degrees.

Let me explain.

For an increasing number of occupations, one can now meet and even exceed the job requirements by demonstrating the necessary skills, without needing to acquire them in the form of a 4-year college degree. The Society of Human Resources Management highlighted this trend even back in 2018. Apple, Google, Netflix, and Tesla are just some of the companies openly sharing their willingness (and data) for candidates without college degrees.

On the other hand, as you pointed out, many students face crushing education loan debts, and there is evidence that they are getting less and less from college education. Outside of certain well known universities, many colleges sadly lead to negative ROI for their graduates.

However, this isn’t to say that colleges are unimportant and young adults should consider other ways to acquire skills. Jeff Weiner, the recent ex CEO of LinkedIn, indicated “…It’s not skills not at the exclusion of degrees…”, which is important to note. Many regulated professions, such as medicine, actuarial science, accountancy, law, and many others still largely require a college degree for entry and a productive career.

My advice to young adults is first to be encouraged by the fact that, college or not, they now have more choice than their predecessors even 10 years ago. The best way to decide whether to go to college is to evaluate what they want to do after college. Did you study your desired occupations / career paths on their college degree requirements? What about companies you want to join and their entry requirements? Is going to college to acquire knowledge and pursue further research (e.g. a PhD), or to use it as a stepping stone to a job?

Answers to these questions will help form each young person’s own answer to whether college is the right choice for them.

Despite the doom and gloom predictions, there are, and likely still will be, jobs available. How do you see job seekers having to change their approaches to finding not only employment, but employment that fits their talents and interests?

That’s right, there will always be jobs available; they will just evolve, much like during and after every prior major societal shift. The big shift in our lifetime has been the infusion of technology into every aspect of life. Jobs of the future will also reflect this. I shared some of my thinking earlier around job seekers benefitting from focusing on skills vs. just degrees. That thinking applies to this question as well. Job seekers will have the ability to build up their overall repertoire based on a variety of skills (or capabilities) reflecting their interests. From AI-powered ‘smart search’ tailored to a person’s resume and skills, to a dating app-like interface to truly connect with employers with mutual interest, there is a growing number of job-hunt services, catering to a wide variety of approaches and preferences for job-seekers. Polywork is another interesting new service that aims to present people as multi-faceted practitioners, not just unidimensional workers defined by 1–2 keywords. Job seekers can benefit by exploring such emerging approaches to presenting themselves to the world.

Job seekers will have more choices. As is evident from a lot of media coverage, there is a labor shortage. For a number of reasons, ranging from historically low pay (e.g. in the fast-food space) to pandemic-related nervousness in customer-facing roles (e.g. retail, healthcare), employers are reeling from the lack of qualified workers. This is to the advantage of job seekers, who can now be more picky on how they evaluate employers. Whether it is the need for higher pay, a more inclusive workforce, or location flexibility, employers are now finding themselves in a race to improve the employee experience. All of this will benefit job seekers.

Job seekers might have to enhance their digital presence. The pandemic made a number of employers realize how traditionally in-person jobs can be done remotely. While many jobs still require in-person activity, many industries are now retooling themselves to embrace at least a partly remote workforce. This means the geographic range of jobs available for a job seeker is now even greater. The recent rise in remote work, pre-pandemic, has now only accelerated. With increased choice for the job seeker comes greater need to build their digital brand. An employer in Europe may not be able to easily meet a job seeker in South America, so the job seeker’s digital presence is likely to play a greater role in supporting their candidacy for the job.

The statistics of artificial intelligence and automation eliminating millions of jobs, appears frightening to some. For example, Walmart aims to eliminate cashiers altogether and Dominos is instituting pizza delivery via driverless vehicles. How should people plan their careers such that they can hedge their bets against being replaced by automation or robots?

I am glad we are talking about this. First, a few facts to quell the fear of ‘robots taking over our jobs’:

• McKinsey published that, while roughly 1 in 3 American workers’ jobs might be partly or fully affected by automation, less than 5% of jobs will be entirely replaced by robotics or other forms of automation.
• Some of the brightest thinkers gathered and concluded at Stanford University in 2019 that fears of automation taking away human jobs are overblown.
• One of the most poetic quotes on this topic comes from Elon Musk, who said “..humans are underrated.”

Next, what jobs get affected by AI and automation, and by how much, varies by industry and type of job, among many other factors. Here’s a good attempt at highlighting which jobs seem safe from automation and which ones might not be. Actually, there are many lists and theories on which jobs are and aren’t safe from automation and AI. Here’s one from The Guardian, and one from one of the largest job sites, Monster.com. These lists serve as good food for thought on the types of professions one could pursue to build careers that either are automation-proof, or at least automation-friendly.

However, I believe there is a broader set of tactics to pursue to ensure one is in sync with whatever changes automation and AI might bring:

• Maintain a continuous focus on upskilling yourself; education is no longer just limited to one’s 18 years (or 21 or 24). Whether it is ongoing professional education, frequent updates to vocational skills, or exposure to new technologies, today’s worker has an incredibly rich source of skills and knowledge to consistently stay relevant. One example is the pursuit of AI itself; here is a good breakdown of how to get into this rapidly growing field.
• Explore emerging tools (also employing AI) that can help you enhance, customize, and match your resume to a potential job. Tools like Rezi, Skillroads, Jobscan, Hiration, and Jobseer offer powerful ways to up your game of job search, by leveraging non-obvious ways these tools employ to help you find the right fit.
• Broadly speaking, specialized intelligence (e.g. how to make and refine the best shoe on an assembly line) vs. generalized intelligence (e.g. how to write an appealing poem for different audiences) is a good spectrum to think about when planning your next career move. The former is more suited for automation, while the latter is exhibited much better by humans vs. machines.
• Think about roles that require augmented intelligence. History is full of examples where a disruptive technology brings new jobs, counteracting the effects of the old jobs’ obsolescence (e.g. printing press, cars, computers). We have no reason to believe that this current revolution will be any different. As an example, a new type of ‘augmented intelligence’ job is remote support teams for self-driving cars. Though the cars don’t need drivers, they do need remote operators that can monitor, diagnose, and fix any unexpected issues at any point. This human-meets-machine paradigm will find its way in every industry, and I am optimistic about how this means the birthing of an entirely new set of future professions.

Technological advances and pandemic restrictions hastened the move to working from home. Do you see this trend continuing? Why or why not?

I certainly foresee greater instances of people working from home. Moreover, ‘work from anywhere’ will be a more common occurrence, as entire industries now have proof of sustained productivity through remote work. Employees might also want to return to the office to regain a semblance of spontaneous meetings and group gatherings; however, depending on how long the pandemic impacts societal safety, working from home, or more generally, working away from the office, will continue to be a key part of a company’s workforce preference.

What societal changes do you foresee as necessary to support the fundamental changes to work?

I see a three-pronged path to true change to support the changing nature of work:

1. Employer flexibility changes: as discussed earlier, how/where/when work gets done is all being redefined. A thorough revamping is required of HR policies: for in-person time, remote work, inclusive policies, skills-based hiring, employee productivity, continuous education, and health & well-being. Over time these will amount to sweeping changes across the enterprise and will have an impact on how people see their employer. Companies that embrace all of these will end up on the winning side.
2. Employee retooling: With changing attitudes towards college education and the rise in remote work, workers of the future should see their candidacy in the professional world as an ever-evolving attribute. We must be ready to witness changes in perception of education, career, and professional development, for ourselves and across society. We must always be educating ourselves on changing job requirements, company policies, global opportunities, and business and technology trends. Self-development as a continuous process will no longer be optional for anyone. And that is a good thing for everyone.
3. Community commitments: governments and economic development organizations across cities, states, and countries have an equal part to play in embracing the new world of work. They must encourage livelihoods for all socio-economic classes, especially as some will be disproportionately affected by the changes brought about by automation. Incentivizing corporations to reskill their workforce, offering aid to continuous education for local residents, and providing high-quality social support (e.g. childcare, social support) for working families are just some examples that governments and community leaders can be especially good at. Communities that have historically benefitted from traditional industries (e.g. manufacturing, heavy industry) will have to rethink how to empower their residents affected by globalization and loss of income — the American midwest has a number of examples here. Communities that have a large portion of older populations (Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville, FL), or young populations (Provo, UT), have particularly unique challenges and opportunities.

What changes do you think will be the most difficult for employers to accept? What changes do you think will be the most difficult for employees to accept?

Employers of knowledge-based workers need to adapt with more flexibility and agility in addressing employees’ needs, and do away with outdated, rigid policies such as taking yearly employee surveys, enforcing strict on-site work requirements, and maintaining one main office location to which workers must travel to work, sometimes with lengthy commutes. These long-standing attitudes and policies may be hard to abandon, but in the new remote and hybrid paradigms, reshaping policies and leaning to more flexibility are becoming critical.

In turn, these knowledge workers must be clear in redefining work — what it is, how it gets done, and why — and broaden the discussion beyond needs for remote work. This in itself is an outdated argument, hastened and reshaped by the pandemic, which showed companies that remote work must be considered. But it must be considered in the context of larger issues like culture, employee wellness, and operational performance.

To articulate their position, employees should collaborate with HR leaders who are friendly to their cause, because they have shown an understanding of the fact that responding to worker needs gives them a competitive advantage when it comes to hiring and retaining talent.

There is an unspoken bias — “out of sight, out of mind” — that people who prefer remote work will have to grapple with. Despite company policies, remote work can create a predicament for employees and a fear of missing out on career advancement.

For non-knowledge worker companies such as in fast food and retail, they’ve built their business on low pay and little to no benefits. They now need to rethink the employee experience to attract and retain employees, which is difficult with already thin margins

For non-knowledge workers, they must be aware that with automation and technology on the horizon, job security is not a given. They have to be prepared to resell themselves, otherwise they may end up being replaced by a machine.

The COVID-19 pandemic helped highlight the inadequate social safety net that many workers at all pay levels have. Is this something that you think should be addressed? In your opinion how should this be addressed?

In the US, the Covid-19 pandemic advanced two pre-existing social and economic issues: that of largely white, educated knowledge workers and their ability to easily transition to Zoom meetings and Slack messages to perform their jobs, and the workers in certain industries where a physical presence is required, who were forced to make choose between protecting their health and earning a paycheck. Additionally, largely tech-enabled companies have had advantages in being able to shift to remote and hybrid work, reduce physical office space and operate with a geographically distributed workforce — whereas companies that must have employees physically present don’t have those luxuries.

Employers and city and state governments can make significant changes here. Employers of lower paying jobs should look at how they redefine the employee benefits package, salaries, mental health, and the reskilling and upskilling opportunities they offer in order to enhance the employee experience. Local governments can share the burden with employers in offering reskilling and upskilling opportunities rather than invest more in unemployment benefits. For example, cities can incentivize employers if they don’t fire large numbers of people and instead reskill them, rather than simply reward them for opening a new manufacturing plant.

Expanding healthcare and pension plans beyond full-time work, pro-rating benefits for part-time employees, offering financial guarantees for workers displayed by automation, and unemployment insurance reform, are just some of the many ways employers and governments can be creative in reducing the safety net erosion.

Despite all that we have said earlier, what is your greatest source of optimism about the future of work?

I am greatly optimistic about the shifting power dynamic between employers and employees. Employers are waking up and recognizing that they need to think about work in much broader ways than just what happens within four walls, that employees are not just resources — they are human beings with needs for balance, families to care for, and physical and mental health to consider. Likewise, employees have more power than ever before in helping determine how they better balance work and life and how and where work gets done. A shift from bottom line-centric to human-centric work models means a more equitable future is possible — and that is something I feel very hopeful about.

Historically, major disruptions to the status quo in employment, particularly disruptions that result in fewer jobs, are temporary with new jobs replacing the jobs lost. Unfortunately, there has often been a gap between the job losses and the growth of new jobs. What do you think we can do to reduce the length of this gap?

We’re all witnessing the loss of jobs and a number of trends are replacing jobs faster than they’re creating them. To reduce the delta, companies should shift their focus to how they focus on the people who will be impacted by change before they lose their job. In other words, employers can offer ways to educate and train workers before their jobs go away, and offer them the opportunity to apply for other jobs in the company.

City and state governments are also big players here, as they can incentivize companies to reskill and upskill workers as described above, to ensure that unemployment remains at a low level. There should be a tighter partnership between local government, communities and employers — as governments have the ability to take care of people and employers have the ability to keep people at work.

Okay, wonderful. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “Top 5 Trends To Watch In the Future of Work?” (Please share a story or example for each.)

1. The shift to remote work and companies operating with greater geographically distributed teams, resulting from how the pandemic drove knowledge workers out of the office and companies having to quickly pivot to support remote workers. This shift has enabled companies to reduce their physical footprint and resulting costs, and opened up the talent pool to a broader range of people across different markets.
   Example: Twitter, Slack, and Salesforce are just a few companies that have already announced that workers can remain remote permanently, with many more to follow. Additionally, a study from 2020 conducted by Growmotely is just one of many such reports that reveal a number of data points that support the shift to remote work. Among them:
   — 74% of professionals expect remote work to become standard
   — 61% of employees prefer being fully remote
   — Remote work is the biggest draw for top talent
2. The shift to hybrid work and companies offering greater flexibility in how and where work gets done. Similar to trend #1, this stems from the Covid-19 pandemic and knowledge workers’ experience with enhanced productivity, reduced commuting hours, and better work/life balance. Employees are now demanding that their employers provide flexible hybrid work options — otherwise, they’ll find a company to work for that does.
   Example: Gartner’s 2020 Reimagine HR Employee Survey revealed that organizations offering employees flexibility around when, where and how they work saw 55% of their workforce as high-performers, compared to organizations with a standard 40-hour work week which rated only 36% of employees as high-performers.
3. The move from degree-based to skills-based hiring. This move was in the works prior to the pandemic, and with current workforce shortages, it is becoming increasingly necessary in order to find skilled workers. Companies are realizing that requiring a four-year degree limits the talent pool from which they can hire, and leaves out a significant chunk of the population for whom a four-year degree isn’t possible.
   The Society of Human Resources Management highlighted this trend back in 2018. Apple, Google, Netflix, and Tesla are just some of the companies openly sharing their willingness (and data) for candidates without college degrees.
4. Companies investing in re-skilling and upskilling. This drives employee retention, a better work culture, and reduces overall workforce management costs. With job requirements changing so much more rapidly, empowering workforces will serve as a key differentiator.
   Example: This write-up from the Brookings Institute offers a number of examples of how the worker safety net has been improved in some states, and the devastating consequences on workers when reskilling and upskilling opportunities were not made available: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/04/30/american-workers-safety-net-is-broken-the-covid-19-crisis-is-a-chance-to-fix-it/. For example, between 2000 and 2010, economic dislocation increased and employment in manufacturing fell 35% across six Midwestern states, eliminating 1.6 million jobs. This shift had a catastrophic impact on workers and their families. Additionally, most replacement jobs were in the service sector, which typically offered lower pay, fewer hours, and little or no benefits.
5. The Tennessee Reconnect program is an example of a program that protects workers dislocated by trade or automation by providing financial assistance to help them pay for upskilling or a postsecondary credential/degree.
6. The increase in diverse workforces. Workforce diversity will go from a nice consideration to a necessary attribute. Companies will ignore this to their own detriment. Greater geographic distribution of the workforce means companies truly now have an opportunity to go where there is diverse talent. Example: The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) reports that the number of African American workers is projected to increase from 19.6 million in 2016 to 21.6 million in 2026, or 12.7% of the total U.S. workforce.
7. Additional statistics from Deloitte that support the increasing diversity in the workforce include:
   - The US workforce is getting older. By 2024, it’s projected that employees age 55+ will make up 24.8% of the workforce, as compared to 11.9% in 1994.
   - Women are expected to make up a larger portion of the overall US workforce; rising from 46.8% of the workforce in 2014 to 47.2% in 2024.
   - Our workforce is getting increasingly diverse: By 2024, less than 60% of the US labor force is expected to be defined as “white non-Hispanic.” As recently as 1994, over 75% of the labor force fell into that category.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how this quote has shaped your perspective?

My answer might be a bit atypical here. While I am inspired and motivated by many quotes from philosophers, scientists, and poets, I actually have a maxim I am perpetually driven by. Life is all about ANDs, not about ORs.I believe that too often we tend to default to a limited version of life by involuntarily making choices (“ORs”) that reduce its potential. I found myself always aiming to accomplish the maximum version of any event, activity, or path, by pursuing all available attributes (“ANDs”) of each. Instead of going wide or going deep, go wide and deep. Instead of speed or attention to detail, aim for both. I understand that life consists of absolute choices many times. However, by aspiring for a life of ANDs, we can truly access the rich depth and tapestry of outcomes that life holds for each of us.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.

Oh, this is a difficult question — there are so many! A person that I often think of as a brilliant business mind is Shaquille O’Neal. He was a tour de force on the basketball court, an incredible investor since, and a charismatic speaker and spokesperson. I mean, is there anything this man can’t do? I’d love to sit down with him for a meal, and listen to him break down his thinking process. How does he evaluate investment opportunities? How did he chart his career beyond basketball? What keeps him motivated and excited, given his already amazing list of accomplishments? And maybe 50 other questions.

I am in awe of people that transcend traditional boundaries; in business, in art, in life. Shaq is a powerful example of this philosophy. So, you will let me know when he reads this and agrees to lunch, right? :)

Our readers often like to follow our interview subjects’ careers. How can they further follow your work online?

Absolutely, I always welcome dialogue! I am @mistermedici on Twitter, Madhu Chamarty on LinkedIn, mcubed on Medium. My company is GoBeyondHQ on Twitter, and BeyondHQ on LinkedIn, and Beyondhq.co on the web.

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this. We wish you continued success and good health.