Putting The United Back Into The United States: Author Russell Jack On The 5 Things That Each Of Us Can Do To Help Unite Our Polarized Society

An Interview With Jake Frankel

You don’t have to agree, but we must tolerate each other and appreciate our differences. We all must work together as a community if we want to succeed and be happy and healthy.

As a part of our series about 5 Things That Each Of Us Can Do To Help Unite Our Polarized Society, I had the pleasure of interviewing Russell K. Jack.

Russell Jack, author of Is MAGA a Terrorist Movement is a retired US Senior Federal Air Marshal. He is passionate in his defense of democracy, currently under attack by the terrorist group known as MAGA (Make America Great Again). He hopes his book and his website magaterrorism.com will promote critical thinking about protecting our democracy, and just how precariously close we are to losing it forever.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive into the main focus of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?

I am a proponent of protecting the innocent and protecting everyone’s rights and freedoms. When I grew up as a child in the 70s and 80s, I didn’t belong to any one peer group. Because of that, and not fitting in only with the “cool” groups, the kids who were doing “uncool” things (like the chess club or D&D club) were usually targets of bullies. So, I guess I got my start by fighting back against bullies. It progressed to protecting others as well.

What or who inspired you to pursue your career? We’d love to hear the story.

My father was an Air Force officer and pilot. He also had been a deputy Sheriff and, ironically, a Sky Marshal. So, maybe it runs in the family.

I also knew from a very young age that I wanted to be an enforcer for good. Those childhood bullies I met later made me realize, firsthand, that there are criminals to stop and victims to protect. That led to both my military and federal civilian careers.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? How do you think that might help people?

I am proud to be working to stop the MAGA movement and I am learning so much from others who are giving me feedback. I think that by concentrating on the message of stopping illegal and unconstitutional behaviors and acts, I have gotten much better results in my discussions with people from every background.

One of my big takeaways from my conversations around stopping MAGA is that many Republicans are also not fans of being associated with a movement that uses terrorism to achieve its goals. MAGA isn’t a Republican movement, its goals and methods do not match the ideals of what was the Republican party. Unfortunately, the Republican party is now the MAGA movement that has taken over their party.

This made me realize that nothing has changed from what I did for thirty years. The problem is not, and never has been, what individuals choose to believe. It is the conscious decision to affect others in a criminal or unconstitutional way that is the issue. Helping others to understand that difference is critical. I think the best way to help people is to defend everyone’s rights and to have open communication about the issues facing us today.

None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Was there a particular person who you feel gave you the most help or encouragement to be who you are today? Can you share a story about that?

I agree 100%. I am happy to say there were many people who gave me the encouragement to be who I am today. Every endeavor I have ever done would not be possible without the help of others.

One of my greatest compliments was when members of my platoon told me I was a good leader and officer, and they were sorry to see me go when I left active service. We are all a village. No one person is that powerful. It takes a group of people, working together, to make real change.

Can you share the funniest or most interesting mistake that occurred to you in the course of your career? What lesson or take away did you learn from that?

Although this mistake was just having the wrong person, I think this is a good story. I had stopped a man, who was Black (I am White), because he matched the description of someone who had stolen a woman’s purse from the counter right in front of her. After detaining him, I got a call over the radio that another officer had found the suspect. I radioed him back to verify. The man I had detained matched the suspect’s description almost perfectly. His height, weight, race, and clothing description fit the description to a tee. After verifying, I released him from detention.

He felt he may have been targeted because of his race. I told him why I had stopped him and then asked if I could show him my handwritten description of the suspect. He said yes and I showed him the description I had written. His demeanor immediately changed. He said, basically, “yeah that matches my description alright!”. He was favorably impressed that I had taken the time to share that with him.

I think the important lesson here is to take the time to explain why you stopped someone, especially if they turn out to be innocent. I could have just released him and left, but I didn’t want him to think I had racially profiled him. This is an important lesson that I have learned. Law enforcement can only help a community if that community wants their help and looks at them as protectors, not as threats. Being transparent is very important to earning that community’s trust. And trust is always earned, not given by a uniform.

Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?

Ok, I am terrible at answering some of your questions. I think now is a time to say it though: ALL BOOKS.

The reason it resonates is because Florida has started banning books. I wonder if Fahrenheit 451 is starting to happen. Are we going to see “firefighters” that burn books in the future? It’s not science fiction — burning books has happened many times in our world’s history. So, I guess the answer is all of them. I want all ideas to be allowed to be shared, so we can learn from billions of people in this world.

Can you share your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Why does that resonate with you so much? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?

“Ignorance is temporary, stupid is forever.” Not sure where I heard this quote, but it resonates with me because I know it is not true. Personally, I have learned that some things I used to whole-heartedly believe were false. I was able to learn to move past my false beliefs and embrace factual reality. A person can only be stupid if they lack the capacity to learn or have reason. Being stupid can be fixed through open-mindedness and a willingness to learn new things objectively.

How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?

A leader is someone who inspires others to follow through by leading by example and putting the mission and the welfare of their subordinates above their own safety and comfort. A supervisor or manager is just someone who is put in charge. A leader is an earned title, it cannot be given.

Being a leader means never asking your subordinates to do something you wouldn’t be willing to do. It also means they know you will be selfless in your support for them and the mission.

Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s move to the main focus of our interview. The polarization in our country has become so extreme that families have been torn apart. Erstwhile close friends have not spoken to each other because of strong partisan differences. This is likely a huge topic, but briefly, can you share your view on how this evolved to the boiling point that it’s at now?

Absolutely. I worked with MAGA supporters for years when I was an Air Marshal. After 2016 I saw how the differences in party affiliation started to become tribalistic. Donald Trump and the MAGA movement moved Republicanism to a reactionary extremist movement with no regard for the law or the Constitution.

As far as the boiling point, I feel 2016 was the beginning of MAGA’s large-scale influence in spreading intolerance and hatred of those who oppose it. This was a huge change from merely having a difference of opinion, MAGA looks at it almost as a war. It was no longer a difference of opinion; it was a mutually exclusive set of values. Things became much more “us vs. them”.

I want to bring people together too. But the way to do that is the same as it has always been. Separate the criminals from the law-abiding. Different opinions used to just create different votes and moderated outcomes. Now one party wants complete control and is willing to use any means, legal and illegal, to get it. That group, MAGA, needs to be stopped and the Republicans need to seize their party back from them.

I think it is important to keep the topic on criminality, rather than beliefs or politics, when addressing the problem. Our peaceful diverse beliefs and values makes America, and the world, a better and stronger community.

I have no pretensions about bridging the divide between politicians, or between partisan media outlets. But I’d love to discuss the divide that is occurring between families, co-workers, and friends. Do you feel comfortable sharing a story from your experience about how family or friends have become a bit alienated because of the partisan atmosphere?

I got along well with most of my former coworkers for many years before 2016. After 2016, some of them — who had been friends or at least friendly — became hostile toward me when I took a stand against the illegal and unconstitutional methods of MAGA.

Now, I have former friends who will not speak to me. I have had disagreements with a family member over topics that I feel are factually unassailable. All because of MAGA’s influence, to include false stories by right wing propagandists disguised as “News” outlets.

In your opinion, what can be done to bridge the divide that has occurred in families? Can you please share a story or example?

I think the best way to bridge that divide is empathy. I have had some heated arguments over this with a family member, but in the end our love for one another got us over it. We need to accept other people’s views, even if they are not factual or even logical. We need to point out what truly makes America great — the diversity of peoples and ideas.

I believe strongly that everyone should have the freedom to advocate for their beliefs and vote, without resorting to criminal behavior and bigotry. We can all get along with someone who is law-abiding and respects other’s differences. We can all get along when we behave legally and show empathy. It’s impossible to bridge the divide with people who can’t stay within those boundaries.

How about the workplace, what can be done to bridge the partisan divide that has fractured relationships there? Can you please share a story or example?

In my case the workplace was agents sworn to protect the constitution and the law, both of which MAGA has broken. So, my case is probably more extreme than most workplaces. I think the best way to bridge that partisan divide is to separate legal from illegal. I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but it is true.

Honestly, MAGA is not Republican. It does not share the Republican message or their charter. My book, Is MAGA a Terrorist Movement, covers this topic extensively. They have been co-opted by MAGA. To bridge this divide we need to stress that different beliefs and tolerance of them is paramount.

The extreme of either party will tend to alienate the larger whole. Illegal and terroristic behavior cannot be acceptable, those behaviors must be called out and stopped. We need to make sure people know the difference and treat each other respectfully.

I think one of the causes of our divide comes from the fact that many of us see a political affiliation as the primary way to self-identify. But of course, there are many other ways to self-identify. What do you think can be done to address this?

You are accurate. MAGA is a tribe and a cult. I am not saying that viciously, I am saying that factually. I was a soldier and a law enforcement officer. I protected the innocent and went after the criminals. Nothing about who I am as a person has changed. My status as an official agent of the government has changed to being a retired civilian. But who I am, has not changed. I identify as an agent of good.

Prior to 2016, most people did not identify themselves as a Republican or a Democrat. It was more about supporting certain views or beliefs by voting or in conversations. People would say they ARE a doctor or a soldier or a teacher. In my circles, it wasn’t common for people to declare they ARE a Republican or Democrat.

Instead, they would say “I tend to vote…” not “I am…” MAGA has changed that. Very few people self-identify with a party as their core identity, but millions have self-identified as “I am MAGA.” Example? I do not “identify” as a Democrat, or even anti-Republican. I am anti-criminal and anti-terrorist. MAGA is one of those groups.

Much ink has been spilled about how social media companies and partisan media companies continue to make money off creating a split in our society. Sadly the cat is out of the bag and at least in the near term there is no turning back. Social media and partisan media have a vested interest in maintaining the divide, but as individuals none of us benefit by continuing this conflict. What can we do moving forward to not let social media divide us?

Action is starting to be taken in this area. Notice how eight and nine figure lawsuits have hit media companies for continued spreading of provably false narratives. We need to continue calling out untrue statements in the media.

Long before 2016 we saw a change in journalistic integrity. As a young man, I remember the newscaster who faked being on location for a story. It ruined his career. Growing up, a story that was debunked could end a career.

Now, news stories aren’t even adequately edited for errors, much less accurately fact-checked in many cases. Add in deliberate misinformation and outright lies in some of the stories in the “news”, and it is no wonder people can believe some truly outrageous lies.

News was never supposed to be partisan. It is supposed to be an accurate record of what has happened. We need to have fact-checked rebuttals attached to any news “story” that uses clearly false or intentionally misleading information. It needs to be done with all news. Unfortunately, I don’t think that is going to happen any time soon.

What can we do moving forward to not let partisan media pundits divide us?

We need to continue taking legal action and rebutting articles and “news” that are untrue. We really need to get journalistic integrity back to where it was. Now, don’t take this the wrong way. Many, if not most, journalists and reporters take this integrity very seriously. However, we have seen some news agencies have very biased slants in what they cover or don’t cover, or what they are willing to accept as factual.

The left-leaning media tends to get “fact-checked” by their peers more often if they say something egregiously false. The extreme right-wing media sources, from what I have seen, have been rewarded for it. I think the best way to move forward is to be objective and be willing to ask for proof of what is said. The rules should apply to all news sources.

Can you please share your “5 Steps That Each Of Us Can Take To Proactively Help Unite Our Country”.

1 . Aggressively pursue the truth.

Call out lies and misinformation wherever it is found, regardless of politics or which group it is.

2 . Aggressively pursue criminals.

The illegal activities of individuals make the larger group they belong to look bad.

3 . Call it like it is.

If a group does espouse illegal behavior, then that whole group is bad.

4 . If someone isn’t endorsing criminality, respect and tolerate all opinions and beliefs.

You don’t have to agree, but we must tolerate each other and appreciate our differences. We all must work together as a community if we want to succeed and be happy and healthy.

5 . Love.

It sounds cliché, but the concept of treating others as you wish to be treated goes a long way. I would always rather see someone step back from belonging to a criminal group than have to fight them. War, fighting, and violence should always be a last resort, not a first choice.

Simply put, is there anything else we can do to ‘just be nicer to each other’?

Yes. Anyone willing to learn to be tolerant — not necessarily agreeing but tolerant — of each other can get along. We can show empathy. Be willing to really listen to what they have to say. If it seems like utter nonsense or is factually inaccurate, be willing to let them believe it and move on. We need to treat each other with dignity, if the other person does the same. Make sure we are clear that it is the intolerant and criminal only that we will not abide.

We are going through a rough period now. Are you optimistic that this issue can eventually be resolved? Can you explain?

I am hopeful that, over time, some will come around to the idea of tolerance. And, like the White supremacy or other hate movements, we will be able to mitigate the MAGA movement to being an ineffectual hate group.

I think this movement really messed up a good thing. We used to just disagree and move on, now it is much more personal to many people. We need to get partisan politics back to just being a part of our lives, not what we live for.

If you could tell young people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our society, like you, what would you tell them?

They should consider having empathy for others. Some things, like criminality and bigotry, cannot be tolerated. But, if you treat others the way you would want to be treated, we can almost all get along. Call out those that hate and try to bring them back. If not, stop them from acting on it.

Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)

I would like to meet and talk with Liz Cheney! I had my own fight against MAGA when I was in the government, but nothing like what she endured. I could learn so much from her about what occurred and the machinations of how MAGA came to power in our highest levels of government. It would be an honor to meet such a great patriot in person.

How can our readers follow you online?

My website is https://www.magaterrorism.com and I can be reached there for questions, or just to learn more about liberal democracy vs the MAGA movement.

This was very meaningful, and thank you so much for the time you spent on this interview. We wish you only continued success on your great work!

Thank you for taking the time for us to talk about tolerance and respect for everyone; and for helping spread the message to fight bigotry, hate, criminal acts, and terrorism anywhere in the world, not just the USA. Love, not hate, is always the answer.