Robert Goodale: Second Chapters; How I Reinvented Myself In The Second Chapter Of My Life
An Interview With Wanda Malhotra
Talent is not enough in today’s profession, either for an actor or a writer. Most must do some kind of networking, self-promotion, or online influencing. I remember turning my nose up at actors who went to every opening night that they could get into. It sounded grim to me, but they are the ones who have been left with the last laugh.
Many successful people reinvented themselves in a later period in their lives. Jeff Bezos worked on Wall Street before he reinvented himself and started Amazon. Sara Blakely sold office supplies before she started Spanx. Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson was a WWE wrestler before he became a successful actor and filmmaker. Arnold Schwarzenegger went from a bodybuilder, to an actor to a Governor. McDonald’s founder Ray Kroc was a milkshake-device salesman before starting the McDonalds franchise in his 50s.
How does one reinvent themselves? What hurdles have to be overcome to take life in a new direction? How do you overcome those challenges? How do you ignore the naysayers? How do you push through the paralyzing fear?
In this series called “Second Chapters; How I Reinvented Myself In The Second Chapter Of My Life “ we are interviewing successful people who reinvented themselves in a second chapter in life, to share their story and help empower others.
As a part of this interview series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Robert Goodale.
Robert Goodale is an Olivier Award-winning playwright who has also worked extensively as an actor in TV, theatre, and films. He started his adult life as a schoolteacher and has now reinvented himself as a children’s novelist under the pseudonym of Daniel Turnpike. His first novel is entitled Felix Featherstone and The Way of The Wolveraffes.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
My father was an accomplished landscape painter but never considered that that could be thought of as a job and he even stopped my mum — who had trained at RADA to become an actress — from doing amateur dramatics. Artiness as a profession was strictly forbidden in our household. Although my two brothers and I (and the dog) used to dress up and make mini movies all the time, the idea that we could become part of the entertainment industry was completely out of the question. However, my father died when I was 19, and his influence was therefore taken away. I hadn’t got a clue what to do at that stage and, for want of anything better and because I was now allowed to, trained to be a teacher and an actor.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Although I do not subscribe to any particular religion, I have great respect for its leaders. Gautama Buddha said: ‘Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it is to the one who endures that the final victory comes.’ Nothing has come easily to me in my life. I have always started every endeavour at the bottom of the ladder and had to work my way up. So, endurance in all fields has been very important. My book Felix Featherstone and The Way of The Wolveraffes carries that message too. It is about a boy who has anger issues and has nothing tangible going for him. His big moment of change occurs when he is locked up in a cell and watches a fledging bird attempt to get itself up off the floor and out into the open air. It flies up to the barred window seven times but falls to the ground on every occasion. It is only on the eighth attempt that it is successful, after which it swoops off into the sky.
You have been blessed with much success. In your opinion, what are the top three qualities that you possess that have helped you accomplish so much? If you can, please share a story or example for each.
As a teacher, I have respect for children’s ideas and listen to what they have to say, in the knowledge that they can teach me a thing or two. I will obviously take charge and express my opinions, but I always want to hear what their perspective is as well.
Friends often tell me that I am a bit crazy. Perhaps it is my greatest gift. It allows me to throw myself into situations without being inhibited. This is most evident on the dance floor, where I follow whatever impulses come to me through the music. Some people love it; others just think I’m a liability. It is very useful quality to have as an actor though because you need lose yourself in whatever character you are playing.
My memory for books that I have read and films that I have watched is poor. It annoys and frustrates me hugely. However, it is perhaps a great asset when I sit down and write as I am not overly conscious of other people’s ideas or stories. No doubt they influence me subconsciously, but they don’t interfere with my stream of thought.
Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion about ‘Second Chapters’. Can you tell our readers about your career experience before your Second Chapter?
I was a dreamer — so much so that I didn’t concentrate in class and didn’t do very well in my exams. When I left school, I had no idea what I wanted to do, but I was offered the equivalent of a gap year job as a teacher in India during which time my dad died. On my return, I went to a Drama College to learn to teach. After completing my course, I never really achieved what I had wanted to. I drifted from one minor acting job to short term contracts as a teacher. It was only when I decided to do a one-man show at the Edinburgh Festival that I started to get results. That was my first plunge. Alan Rickman came to see the show. He was about to play Hamlet and he got me the part of Rosencrantz. This led to me getting the best agent in town — ICM as they were at the time — and set me off on a very satisfying career. My show was also taken on by a producer, who several years later asked me and my brother to write a play based on that one-man performance. We did. It was put on at The Duke of York’s Theatre for a year, it’s been performed all over the world and my brother and I both won Olivier awards.
Can you tell us about the specific trigger that made you decide that you were going to “take the plunge” and make your huge transition?
Although I had won an Olivier award and was working a lot as an actor, I still had to do a second job, every so often, to make ends meet. So, I did some substitute teaching in primary schools. It was hard work, but I found it very fulfilling, and I would always get great feedback from the agency. However, one Friday lunchtime, I was approached by the deputy head, of a school that I had been at all week, who marched me down the corridor to her office. She first of all told me what a great relationship I had had with the kids at the school, but then presented me with a book that I had marked on the previous day. She pointed to a symbol in the margin of a worksheet and asked me what it meant. I said that it did not seem to have been included in their pamphlet on the new marking schemes, but I had ticked the box to verify the pupil’s statement that her laptop was not working. She replied, ‘That symbol means self-assessment and YOU have TICKED it! YOU have TICKED it! We have very high standards at this school. Perhaps you could acquaint yourself more thoroughly with the way we work here.’ I felt like I had committed some unpardonable crime and knew there and then that I couldn’t do this job again. A friend of mine said that I must find a replacement and write instead — not just the scripts that I was working on with my brother, but my own novel. I didn’t want to be subjected to the paranoid bureaucracy of a school, but I was still eager to have a connection with that world. So, I decided to write a book for children. For me, this was my second plunge. My first was to become a proper actor and my second was to become a children’s author.
And how did you “reinvent yourself” in your Second Chapter?
One of my greatest pleasures as a teacher was reading aloud to the class and I realized that I had always secretly wanted to write a book of my own. My aunt died on the morning of All Souls Day. The night before, I had been baby-sitting my seven-year-old goddaughter and had been amazed at the wisdom she seemed to possess — an ‘old soul’. The combination of these two things gave me the idea that there should be a day called Old Souls Day — a day when children ‘who had been here before’ got to find out who they really were. I started going to the British Library on a daily basis and worked obsessively for a period of three months. As I was reinventing myself in the process, I needed a new name — Daniel Turnpike.
What did you do to discover that you had a new skillset inside of you that you haven’t been maximizing? How did you find that and how did you ultimately overcome the barriers to help manifest those powers?
I found that once I had my idea, which was a strong one, the story started to grow and burn inside me until it had found its way onto paper. I also realized that my experience of teaching allowed me to empathize with the mindset of an eleven-year-old. I knew what they responded to. The first line of the book is: ‘Felix loved silence, particularly in the classroom. It’s the only time that he could hear himself think. It’s the only time that he could see things clearly in his mind.’ When I have read this out loud to kids, I’ve seen that it resonates. It probably means very little to adults outside the education system, but I have witnessed the joy and tranquility that so many underprivileged kids, from noisy households, get when they are in that golden atmosphere. They treasure it.
How are things going with this new initiative? We would love to hear some specific examples or stories.
I have been travelling round schools and doing workshops based on the books. One of my most memorable days was at a Pupil Referral Unit. You would think that that might have been difficult. In fact, it was the opposite. It started off with a group of young kids — including an eight-year-old, who I said would be too young to understand the book. However, at the end of the session, when I laid out a map of Hollow Island (where the adventure takes place) on the floor, this boy went and sat on it and explained in extraordinary detail what he thought would happen on the island, pointing out the strategic places where things would occur. In another session, a dog — belonging to one of the teachers — circled round the map and then settled itself right in the middle of it. No one blinked an eyelid. If the dog wanted to sit there, then so be it. There was such a great atmosphere at this school, and it links up so much with what my book is about. Sometimes, you need a different environment in order to thrive and survive. These kids were all having problems in mainstream schools but, in this establishment, they were happy and well-motivated. We all have qualities inside of us that can remain untapped until such a time as they are given the opportunity to come out.
Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Alan Rickman came to see my one-man show. He was about to play Hamlet and he got me the part of Rosencrantz. This led to my career as an actor, which would never have happened otherwise. My new direction as a writer has, in turn, followed on from that.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started in this new direction?
I have written about a boy who has anger issues. This is based on kids that I have observed while I’ve been teaching. Very often, they have major problems at home and need to offload their feelings in a safer space (e.g., school). Although, I have a temper from time to time, it’s one that I can generally control. So, I can’t tell whether my depiction of someone with uncontrollable anger is correct. All I can do is attempt to relate it to my own experience. When I was doing a session at a special school, where the pupils had a range of needs, a boy put his hand up and said that he completely understood how the central character felt as he had exactly those problems himself. He came up to me afterwards and said that the readings from my book had rung a lot of bells in his head. To get that kind of acknowledgement that you’re not just inventing a state of mind was both reassuring and essential.
Did you ever struggle with believing in yourself? If so, how did you overcome that limiting belief about yourself? Can you share a story or example?
Yes. When you are working on your own, there is no way that you can know whether what you think is good will work for others. So, until it is put to the test, there is always self-doubt. Going round to schools and reading extracts to my target audience has been the true test for me. Being told by teachers that the kids are really connecting and identifying with the material has given me a lot of confidence.
In my own work I usually encourage my clients to ask for support before they embark on something new. How did you create your support system before you moved to your new chapter?
I have a very supportive group of friends. One, in particular, both encourages me and pushes me to develop my own work. He even gives me ultimatums.
Starting a new chapter usually means getting out of your comfort zone, how did you do that? Can you share a story or example of that?
I have said that I have taken two plunges in my life. Perhaps my first one is the best example of getting out of my comfort zone. I had been working in a series of Inner London comprehensive schools. Even though it wasn’t particularly pleasurable, I knew how to operate in those environments, and I could survive. And then one day I felt that I had to do something radical about my situation. I realized that the life that I was living was unsatisfactory, that I was getting too accustomed to it and that I was not achieving anything of significance. So, I decided to perform a one-man show up at the Edinburgh Festival and looked for some suitable material. I shall never forget the moments before my first performance, standing in the wings, listening to the audience come in and thinking that as soon as I stepped on stage, I — and I alone — would be entirely responsible for the for the next 90 minutes of entertainment. How was that even possible? I was being confronted with the opposite of a comfort zone. However, the moment the house lights went down, adrenaline kicked in and everything that I had rehearsed took on a new energy. Characters were coming to life in unexpected ways. I was doing things I had never done before. The uncomfortable zone had become comfortable. It had become a playground.
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me before I started” and why?
1. Talent is not enough in today’s profession, either for an actor or a writer. Most must do some kind of networking, self-promotion, or online influencing. I remember turning my nose up at actors who went to every opening night that they could get into. It sounded grim to me, but they are the ones who have been left with the last laugh.
2. Writing with other people can be tricky because you’re often at odds with each other. However, when you do hit upon something which inspires you both, you get two for the price of one and create things that you could never have done on your own.
3. When you embark upon being an actor or a writer, it may feel like it’s all going swimmingly to begin with. What you forget is that you must keep that success going for the rest of your working life.
4. What is so great about actors is that — when you are a part of the profession — you have an immediate shorthand with them. You might have only met them a few minutes ago, but it can feel as if you’ve known them for years.
5. Writing is not just rewriting, it’s re-rewriting and re-re-rewriting and…
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
My book, Felix Featherstone and The Way of The Wolveraffes, is about a group of children called Sagacitors. They have lived on this planet before and their mission in life is to influence the world to become a better place. Most have achieved this in their past lives by peaceful means (Martin Luther King, John Lennon, Sir Edmund Hillary, Rosa Parks, Mahatma Gandhi, and Florence Nightingale). It’s only when there has been no other alternative that they have had to resort to force (Second World War pilots and Gurkhas). I believe that the best way to change the world is to lead by example. If only our politicians thought the same!
We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them. :-)
Joni Mitchell. I have met a lot of people in my life but no one as extraordinary as her. How can someone not only write such beautiful, haunting, and soulful songs but also deliver them with such perfection?
How can our readers further follow your work online?
My book Felix Featherstone and The Way of The Wolveraffes is available via Amazon and to order through all good book shops.
My website is https://www.danielturnpikebooksandworkshops.com
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
About the Interviewer: Wanda Malhotra is a wellness entrepreneur, lifestyle journalist, and the CEO of Crunchy Mama Box, a mission-driven platform promoting conscious living. CMB empowers individuals with educational resources and vetted products to help them make informed choices. Passionate about social causes like environmental preservation and animal welfare, Wanda writes about clean beauty, wellness, nutrition, social impact and sustainability, simplifying wellness with curated resources. Join Wanda and the Crunchy Mama Box community in embracing a healthier, more sustainable lifestyle at CrunchyMamaBox.com.
