Shane Stanley: 5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me When I First Became A Filmmaker
“Don’t just hear what you want to hear.” My father (Lee Stanley) has said this for as long as I can remember. So often many of us enter into business relationships or potential opportunities hearing only the upside while tuning out the negatives. It really partners well with “trust your gut” because IF you truly hear what’s being said, and not just the good stuff, your instincts will kick in and you can really decipher the truth from the bullsh*t. I can’t tell you how many times I was guilty of hearing only what I wanted to hear when dealing with potential investors or sales agents, and it cost me dearly in both time and money. I think I’ve gotten to the point where I know the questions to ask now, so I can be told the good, the bad and the ugly before diving in headfirst and without having to check both the depth and the temperature of the water.
As a part of our series called “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me When I First Became A Filmmaker”, I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Shane Stanley.
Shane Stanley is multi-award-winning filmmaker and author who grew up in ‘the biz.’ He has produced, written, and directed music videos, national commercials, and indie films that have won myriad awards. His new book “What You Don’t Learn in Film School” is the go-to primer for indie filmmaking and is required reading at several universities. He contributes to and speaks at some of the top outlets in the film world.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us a bit of the ‘backstory’ of how you grew up?
I was born into Hollywood to a couple of east coast transplants in 1971. My father (Lee Stanley) was a working actor under contract with MGM and Aaron Spelling Prods. He was co-starring in Ice Station Zebra when my parents met, and before I was old enough to walk, had turned his attention to filmmaking. I grew up tinkering with 16mm cameras, lenses, and edit platforms before I knew how to ride a bike. I actually did my first commercial for Century 21 when I was still in diapers and worked in over 100 projects before I was in middle school. My parents divorced when I was three and my father re-married a wonderful woman with two kids of her own when I was five, and we’ve been a family 44 years to THE day that I write this, believe it or not.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
As a child, I didn’t like being in front of the camera. Stuck on a set, or worse, waiting in a trailer to work while my friends were home playing and just being kids didn’t set well with me. I fell in love with racing motocross, playing the drums, and really wanted to do something in or around those industries. I always had “jobs” in the film business because of my knowledge of the equipment and because everyone I knew was working and needing help with their productions. When I was in high school, I had a photography teacher named Ken Neely who kept me after class one day and explained his concern for my lack of a career path. He felt I was taking the opportunities I had for granted, and that I was quickly headed into the “Jack of all trades, master of none” category. I was all over the place without any tangible goals or even a game plan. I mean, when he talked to me, I was racing dirt bikes at a very competitive level, playing in a half-decent rock band and already had an Emmy® Award to my credit. Looking back, I can see the reason behind his concern. One day, about two years after graduating high school, his advice finally kicked my ass into gear, and I decided to give film my total attention. I haven’t looked back since.
Can you share the funniest or most interesting story that occurred to you in the course of your filmmaking career?
There are so many! I think winning my first Emmy® at 16, and another at 19 (with 4 nominations between them), was a time that sticks out because I had no idea what was going on, nor was it my future career choice at the time. All I really cared about was getting a 2-for-1 deal on a tuxedo to wear to both my prom and the Emmy® Awards show that fell about ten days apart. Good news, I was successful in that negotiation!
Who are some of the most interesting people you have interacted with? What was that like? Do you have any stories?
The list is endless, and I’d be lying if I didn’t admit the most interesting people are those no one has ever heard of. Sincerely. Interesting people don’t make a living in Hollywood (laughs). But I have a story for you that was certainly one for the ages: One of my most-memorable encounters was with Harrison Ford. I was working at Paramount back in the mid-90’s and was asked to help out on Clear and Present Danger for some pick-up shots/reshoots they had scheduled on the studio lot. I was brought on as a hybrid, to help in any department that needed an extra hand. When it came to chow time, I grabbed my food and snuck off to the back lot to eat and get some ‘me time’ away from the madness. Halfway into my prime rib I heard a familiar voice ask, “Mind if I join you?” I looked up and it was Mr. Ford towering over me with a dinner plate in hand and a napkin tucked into his wardrobe collar like a bib. We enjoyed dinner while sitting on the curb for about 20 minutes, didn’t say much to each other. It happened to be the Assistant Director’s birthday and when the crew started singing the Happy Birthday song, Mr. Ford graciously went and joined them in the celebration. A few minutes later, he returned to his seat next to mine on the curb and was kind enough to bring me back a piece of the birthday cake. That was a wonderful icebreaker, so we sat enjoying the dessert and engaged in a great conversation about life, liberty, and the pursuit of this crazy business. Mostly we talked about career choices. I did most the listening because Lord knows, he sure made some good ones. He let me in on a few of his bad ones too, which I really appreciated. Fast forward about five hours later, it was 3AM and when we wrapped production I was in the grip truck putting away equipment. I heard someone calling for me outside and when I poked my head out of the truck, there was Mr. Ford wanting to say goodbye. We shook hands and he said, “Shane, I really enjoyed our conversation, good luck, and I sincerely hope we get the chance to work together again.” That hasn’t happened yet, but I’m still hopeful someday it will.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
There are so many. I think one of the greatest takeaways from the relationships I have been fortunate to have, was from the late, great Zalman King (9 ½ Weeks, Red Shoe Diaries). I had met Z, as we affectionately called him, through Charlie Sheen when I was running his production company. I had produced a project that spent a day working at Zalman’s studios and, being the ‘first one there, last to leave’ guy, I was sweeping the floors of the sound stage we wrapped when in walked Zalman. He was surprised to see the producer of the film sweeping floors long after everyone was gone, and we started talking. A week later he called me and said he was going to Bali, Indonesia to do a film for Sony Pictures called In God’s Hands and asked if I wanted to come along. I was flown first-class and put up in a five-star bungalow overlooking the Java Sea. Zalman treated me with the utmost respect and when I arrived he said, “Shane, I brought you out here because I want you learn everything you can about making movies. Your work ethic is unbelievable, but you don’t possess key fundamentals that you can build a career on…stuff that can really separate you from the pack. We’re going to change that by the time you go home.” I spent the November and December of 1997 watching the master at work. During that time, at our on-set Thanksgiving dinner, I pitched him an episode idea for his hit TV series, Red Shoe Diaries. He thought a careful beat before asking if I could write the idea in thirty pages or less. When we returned to the states, I wrote it and he bought it. He ended up buying several more of my scripts for the series over the next two or three years. We continued collaborating until the day he died in 2012.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
My go-to is, “Anything worth doing is worth over-doing.” by Steven Tyler. I think that says it all. If you’re willing to put your time and attention into something, why wouldn’t you give it 110%? When I make a film, I know it’s a minimum of a year commitment out of my life. I couldn’t imagine giving it anything less. I’ve adopted that mindset in everything I set my hand to. Go big or go home, right?
I am very interested in diversity in the entertainment industry. Can you share three reasons with our readers about why you think it’s important to have diversity represented in film and television? How can that potentially affect our culture?
Hear, hear! I don’t know if I can give you three reasons per se, but our mission in this camp is all about female driven films. We don’t let anyone’s age, sex, color, or orientation get in the way of telling the stories we want to tell. I think it’s beyond clear in this day and age that we must be ever-embracing of people, especially in visual media, and by doing so it’ll start to turn the tide. Let’s set the tone now so the next generations will see it as the ‘norm’ and hopefully, this will no longer be an issue or a topic of discussion. It starts with all of us. I’ll let you in on a little secret: “Hollywood” makes a big deal about diversity and says all the right things when everyone is listening, but behind closed doors, it’s rarely embraced and even discouraged more than you’d believe. Why? Because people are afraid of change, they stick to what’s worked for them in the past and will seldom deviate. My writer and producing partner CJ Walley and I have created our own little world where we’re passionate about our path and have often (and gladly) given the middle finger to anyone who doesn’t embrace it. For us, it’s about making projects we believe can be entertaining while turning the tide and doing them with people we want to work with. If that isn’t easy to sell or acceptable because we platform women and other diverse leads, tough totems. We’ll find distributors and an audience who understand our vision and share the passion.
What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?
Currently I’m in post-production on a film called Double Threat, an action-comedy about a young woman with a split personality who becomes entangled with a man on a pilgrimage across the country to scatter his brother’s ashes. What he doesn’t know is that there’s a pair of ruthless mobsters hot on her trail (one of whom is portrayed by Dawn Olivieri). It’s a fun ride we categorize as a female led, action-exploitation film, steeped with comedy, romance and more action than you can imagine. There are car and horse chases, plane stunts, shootouts, and fights that will knock your socks off. Oh, and most of all, our leading lady, Danielle C. Ryan, performed all of her own stunts and didn’t use a double even once. She’s unbelievable! We’re influenced by films like Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry and Thelma and Louise, as well as the Hal Needham action films of the 70’s. We’d sure love to see a Hooper, Cannonball Run, or even a Smokey & the Bandit type film with women in the driver’s seat! Our next film is an exciting buddy-action comedy with two female leads and our villain is a woman as well. I cannot wait to start that one later this year. #girlpower!
Which aspect of your work makes you most proud? Can you explain or give a story?
Well, it goes back to that middle finger. I remember when making a commitment to put women in lead roles of our films resulted in a myriad of people telling me that we’d be killing the potential for profit or sellability, before the film was even cast, let alone shot. Their reasons were all based on fear and honestly, not wanting to get off their asses and actually having to work at something. It’s no secret that male-led action films are tried and true and usually a safe(r) bet globally. It’s time for that to change. I told our backers and sales agents to get on board or get the f-outta the way. Honestly, I’d rather have to sell in-house burned DVD’s or Blu-rays out of the trunk of my car, or upload our works to YouTube, than give in to some of the casting demands. So, we stick to our guns and find people who share our desire to break away from the norm to come on board. It’s nice to wake up and feel you’re contributing to change rather than just talking about it or cranking out product without a deeper purpose.
Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started” and why. Please share a story or example for each.
I don’t know if I would say I wish someone had told me these things because… they did. Perhaps I just learn a little slower than most, so here are the top 6 things I was told or heard along my journey that changed my life. (pardon the name dropping).
1. “Trust your gut.” That was something Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson told me when, after the success of our film, Gridiron Gang, I was miserable in a development/writing job at a major television network. I spent several frustrating years “developing” ideas and chasing trends that bore no fruit. I hadn’t made a film for a while and the only way to do that was to quit my job, disappoint some people, and self-finance a project I believed in for the sole purpose of doing what I ultimately wanted to do: be left alone to make independent movies. I was telling Dwayne I was unfulfilled and felt the world was moving on without me. I knew my idea could work but, I’d be leaving a very nice gig and rolling a very big set of dice. He said, “Shane-o, you’ve gotta trust your gut, and if you truly do that, there’s no doubt it’ll be the right choice.” Let’s face it, when “The Rock” talks, people listen, and he’s made a hell of a career by trusting his gut instincts. I am beyond grateful he gave me that advice.
2. “F*ck ‘em!” This one goes back to Zalman King. When we were in Bali, he was adamant about handling some things in the story a certain way. An executive showed up on set and told him he wasn’t following what the studio had signed-off on. After he chased the executive off the set, (I think with a chair or perhaps a weapon used by the natives) he turned to me, still short of breath and said, “You will have to say and do a lot of things to get a green light or a job in this business. Once you have the approval, f*ck ‘em!, do it your way. You won’t always be successful, but you’ll be able to live with yourself and that’s what matters.”
3. “I need people I can go to war with and who will have my back!” Charlie Sheen said that to his agent whom he fired at the then William Morris Agency (before the WME merger). When working as the head of Charlie’s production company, he requested I meet with his agent to align future plans and a strategy for his career. The agent, who was making a fortune off his celebrity client, accepted readily but when the time came, couldn’t have cared less. He took the meeting as a courtesy, but was inattentive, dismissive, and I have to say, downright rude — never breaking from an on-line, virtual chess game he had going at the time with Cindy Crawford. When I returned to the office and told Charlie what went down, he picked up the phone and fired the agent immediately saying, “I need people I can go to war with and who will have my back! You’re so fired!” I learned a lot about loyalty that day and was reminded that without a vision, the people perish. Oddly enough, without naming names, that agent was eventually fired from the company, and quite publicly, for seeking kickbacks and unethical fees from his clients. He has since disappeared from the industry. Point of this story is, when we make pictures, we’re going to war and we need a loyal army (team) intact that always has the project’s best interests in mind.
4. “Don’t just hear what you want to hear.” My father (Lee Stanley) has said this for as long as I can remember. So often many of us enter into business relationships or potential opportunities hearing only the upside while tuning out the negatives. It really partners well with “trust your gut” because IF you truly hear what’s being said, and not just the good stuff, your instincts will kick in and you can really decipher the truth from the bullsh*t. I can’t tell you how many times I was guilty of hearing only what I wanted to hear when dealing with potential investors or sales agents, and it cost me dearly in both time and money. I think I’ve gotten to the point where I know the questions to ask now, so I can be told the good, the bad and the ugly before diving in headfirst and without having to check both the depth and the temperature of the water.
5. “Question Authority.” Nikki Sixx had this sticker plastered on his Ferrari. I knew some of the guys in Mötley Crüe growing up and asked him about it one day at the Blockbuster Video in Westlake Village. He said, “People in power will often tell you to do things, and how to do them, because it usually benefits them. What they rarely tell you is why, and if they do, it’s sugar coated or spun in a way that supports what it is they ultimately want to achieve. Question things when you’re unclear as to why you’re being asked to do something, are ordered to fall in line, or told ‘that’s the way it is,’ especially if it doesn’t sit right with you. And, if you don’t like the answer, don’t conform. Break off and do things your own way.” I think there’s a lot to unpack there but here’s how I’ve applied it: Often as artists, especially when we are just starting out, we’re told how things need to be done, to follow certain protocols, and that a pecking order must be respected. In many cases that’s true, but often it’s implied because someone doesn’t want you bucking the system or God forbid, fear you’ll make them look bad by doing things that might turn out better. Coming up, I’ve been fired for being sh*tty at my job, not listening to instructions, and flat out dropping the ball. That said, I’ve also been fired for questioning authority because it was evident some of the ‘rules’ were a mess or put into place just because someone “said so.” I learned how to navigate these situations appropriately and it does take time. But in the past few years, I think that our population has risen up boldly and really questioned authority as a whole, which has finally given us some much-needed change as a nation. Or at least I think it’s starting to…
6. “Don’t be afraid to say, I don’t know.” Richard Archer, who as dear friend of the family and one of the most successful businessmen we knew, used to tell me this. People in power can smell B.S. a mile away. When you tap dance or try to appease someone with wrong answers because you’re afraid to admit you don’t know something, you’re showing you not only don’t have the character to admit you don’t know something, but that you are also willing to lie in a bind to get out of a pickle. How did that apply in my journey? One of the best business relationships I ever had was launched from an “I don’t know” answer to a question that arose in a first meeting about financing a movie. Those three words spoke the truth. I didn’t know, and I had the confidence to admit it. I capped it with, “but I will find out for you,” however and that gave the investor a sense of security. He knew then that I wasn’t going to wriggle out of confrontation or just appease him with empty words. It also gave me a great excuse to reach out the next day with the answer he was looking for, ultimately allowing me to close the deal.
When you create a film, which stakeholders have the greatest impact on the artistic and cinematic choices you make? Is it the viewers, the critics, the financiers, or your own personal artistic vision?
It is important to trust the people around you, to make sure you stay in your lane, and try your best to benefit everybody involved. Honestly, the old saying “You can never please all the people all of the time…” never rang truer than in film or music. In terms of the critics, they can love a film and audiences can hate it and vice versa. I learned a long time ago how audiences receive artistic and cinematic choices is so subjective. But it’s the one positive note you might get from one viewer, about something you did that the masses didn’t connect with, that changed their life that can make the whole process worth it for me. I’ve found that if you’re making your art for someone else’s approval, you’ll never feel fulfilled. In addition, and at the end of the day, you don’t want to leave your investors holding an empty bag. For me, before I commit to a film, it really just comes down to ‘is this something I’d want to see and is it something I’d like to do?’
Can you share a story with us or give an example about what you mean?
I can think of a project that touches on each of these answers I’ve given. There was one script I peddled to get made that everyone told me not to pursue. They didn’t see it holding viewer interest and I was discouraged almost every step of the way. I rolled the dice and made the film anyway. When we were in the music spotting session, the composer, who had won more accolades than you can count, got up, walked out, and left his assistant and me to finish. I figured this was bad and wished he could have found a more subtle way to tell me he regretted getting involved with the project. About three days later I received an email from him apologizing profusely for walking out on our session. He explained that it was because the film reflected his current troubles at home and that he couldn’t sit there and be productive while crying, let alone in front of his assistant and a client. He went on to thank me for addressing the issues I had in the film and how because of it, he was able to begin his own healing. From that point on, he committed everything he had to the film and even waived his agreed upon fee. I have to say, he delivered beyond anything I could have ever hoped for. The film later received dozens of international accolades, at some remarkable levels, and was one of the most monumental projects of my career. I invited a lot of the early naysayers to the premiere where I received a lot of apologies from friends and colleagues who had expressed doubt that I could pull it off. On the flip side, the film wasn’t a financial success. Knowing it touched at least one person and salvaged a marriage meant everything to me. I realized then, our work isn’t always about the size of the splash the rock makes in the pond, but often it’s in the ripples that reach long after. To this day, the composer and I are dear friends, and he has a very happy home life. The other example refers to the documentary made about the film Gridiron Gang and was a very similar situation. Initially, no one wanted it or saw its potential, not even our agents at C.A.A. After it was made and finally aired, it was the most sought-after property in town, creating a bidding war between many major studios and hundreds of stars and producers clamored for the film rights. Ya’ just never know! And if you’re making your art for accolades or other people’s approval, you’re probably going to come up very disappointed.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
That’s a tough one to answer, as so much needs to be done. I have a very soft heart for kids and seeing that they receive the love, care, and attention that they not only deserve, but require to become productive members of society. I’m proud to say that my wife Val and I very recently had the honor of working with Jane Seymour and The Open Hearts Foundation. What attracted me to their latest mission was the commitment of both time and resources they’re putting into today’s youth. It was invigorating and inspiring. I never really have put the thought behind a ‘movement’ per se, but if there’s an opportunity to serve our youth to help better their tomorrow, count me in.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this.
I would have to say Roger Corman. I just read his book, “How I Made a Hundred Movies in Hollywood and Never Lost a Dime,” and admire his maverick approach of believing in a model and going down the road less traveled. He did things his way and worked with people he loved. He had a bigger vision regardless of budget and I try to apply that in what I do. He was a trailblazer and is an institution. Or… Cindy Crawford. I really want to know who won that chess game!
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