Sleep: Thomas Pontinen of Midwest Anesthesia and Pain Specialists On Why You Should Make Getting A Good Night’s Sleep A Major Priority In Your Life, And How You Can Make That Happen
An Interview With Shawna Robins
Avoid bringing any electronic devices with you to bed. Limiting screen time is important in order to prevent being overstimulated before sleep. Keep the cellphone, tablet, or laptop out of your bedroom when you sleep. This means not bringing work with you to bed and switching off from social media at bed time. If you must have your cell phone with you for emergencies, keep it in your nightstand, not on your bed.
Getting a good night’s sleep has so many physical, emotional, and mental benefits. Yet with all of the distractions that demand our attention, going to sleep on time and getting enough rest has become extremely elusive to many of us. Why is sleep so important and how can we make it a priority? In this interview series called “Sleep: Why You Should Make Getting A Good Night’s Sleep A Major Priority In Your Life, And How You Can Make That Happen” we are talking to medical and wellness professionals, sleep specialists, and business leaders who sell sleep accessories to share insights from their knowledge and experience about how to make getting a good night’s sleep a priority in your life. As part of this interview series, we had the pleasure to interview Thomas Pontinen.
Thomas Pontinen, MD, LCP-C, is a double board-certified anesthesiologist and interventional pain medicine specialist. As a co-founder of MAPS, Chicago’s largest pain management center, he has provided an exceptionally high level of care to patients suffering from a diverse variety of pain. Dr. Pontinen’s expertise has been included in dozens of media publications and he has also had research published Pain Medicine News, the nation’s top source of information in the field of pain medicine for healthcare professionals. Dr. Pontinen’s passion for his patients’ quality of life led him to become an advocate for healthy sleep as an integral part of pain management.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to ‘get to know you’. Can you tell us a bit about your background and your backstory?
I didn’t always know I wanted to get into medicine. I originally studied business management in college, but once the real world started to sink in more, the things that were most important to me became more apparent and I realized business wouldn’t satisfy them. I wanted to work closely with people and help them in a direct way where I could have first-hand perspective of the results. It’s probably the same with a lot of other physicians out there, but the human body always fascinated me and the decision to pursue medicine became the obvious path. I started out my residency in trauma surgery, but switched to anesthesia and eventually worked my way into a pain management fellowship. From that point on I’ve found the balance I was looking for and fortunately have been able to help a lot of people overcome pain in ways that really improve their quality of life.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this particular career path?
There was never really one isolated instance where I realized I wanted to pursue this career in pain medicine. It was a gradual process through school and figuring out what kind of environment worked for my interests and proclivities. I knew I didn’t want to be a paper-pusher, though. On top of wanting to help people, I enjoy doing a bunch of different things and I like to work hard. I could never see myself sitting behind a desk all day telling other people what to do. I enjoy taking a hands-on approach and clinical medicine is pretty much as hands-on as you can get. The results always speak for themselves and running a business on top of the clinical stuff just adds to the fun. Fortunately, I think I managed to stay flexible but persistent enough to pivot when necessary and find the right environment for myself.
Can you share with our readers a bit about why you are an authority in the sleep and wellness fields? In your opinion, what is your unique contribution to the world of wellness?
In many ways, everything we do at MAPS is rooted in a quality-of-life perspective. Pain is a subjective experience and, at the end of the day, you’re going off of what people are telling you about their daily experience. Listening is important and it’s why we focus on what kind of life a patient is living. Are you able to enjoy quality time with loved ones? How do you feel during the day? Can you work or do the activities you’re passionate about? These questions inevitably lead us to sleep. Sleep is important for everyone’s quality of life, whether they realize it or not, but it’s even more important for people who are healing or trying to overcome something that can be as debilitating as chronic pain. We can’t really be effective at improving patients’ quality of life if we’re not helping them get healthier, get better sleep, and ultimately feel better.
I’m not a sleep expert, I haven’t studied sleep academically, and we don’t focus on addressing sleep issues for patients except where they pertain to pain management. That said, I’m incredibly interested in the constantly evolving world of sleep science. We only keep learning more amazing things about the ways sleep works and how something a simple as a dim little light in your room can affect your quality of sleep, brain health, and long-term longevity. A lot of people, patients included, take sleep for granted. Like my career, addressing the importance of sleep in my practice was an obvious path and I think it’s directly contributed to the efficacy of my patient care.
Do you have a favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
I have my favorite quote tattooed on my arm, which is “It’s not the mountain we conquer, but ourselves”. Edmund Hilary, the first person to summit Everest, famously said that when he returned from his expedition. I also have it written in Thai, because I’ve spent so much time there. I worked in Thailand on a dive boat for 2 months as a rescue diver as well as in a hospital ER outside of Bangkok for another 2 months, so it holds a special place in my heart. Edmund’s quote is perfect because most people could accomplish much more in life or realize their dreams if they just believed in themselves. The best person to prove wrong is yourself when you think you can’t do something. And, the mountain is obviously metaphoric, but for me it has also been literal in that I love mountaineering and still am pursuing the seven summits. But most the time in life, it isn’t actually a mountain, but a day to day task at work or personal life.
Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s move to the main focus of our interview. Let’s start with the basics. How much sleep should an adult get? Is there a difference between people who are young, middle-aged, or elderly?
An adult should get about 7–9 hours of sleep a day, although some can do well with as little as 6 hours. There isn’t much difference in the amount of sleep that young, middle, and older adults should get. That said, elderly adults might struggle a bit more because they often wake up several times at night due to being lighter sleepers or the needs of their bodies. They usually also go to sleep and wake up earlier than young and middle-aged adults.
Is the amount of hours the main criteria, or the time that you go to bed? For example, if there was a hypothetical choice between getting to bed at 10PM and getting up at 4AM, for a total of 6 hours, or going to bed at 2AM and getting up at 10AM for a total of 8 hours, is one a better choice for your health? Can you explain?
The time you go to bed is considered to be a bit more important than the amount of hours you sleep, but it’s more about balance. It can be easy to assume that the time you go to sleep doesn’t matter as long as you get at least 8 hours of sleep, but this assumption can’t stand in the face of the body’s circadian rhythm, which guides the individual’s typical day or sleep routine. Any changes in the circadian rhythm can cause major disruptions in the body’s physical and psychological functions, often leading to irritability, fatigue, drowsiness, and an inability to concentrate. For one’s health, it’s important to be consistent with one’s sleeping habits. This is especially true for those who work nights and long hours. A nurse, for instance, whose shift usually ends at 3 am and who only gets to sleep at 4 am may feel rested after sleeping for 6 hours. This is especially true if this is her routine for weeks or months. Her body has gotten used to these sleep hours and changing it may not be good for her health. These sleep hours may, however, not work for a student who stays up until 3 am to study and only gets to sleep at 4 am. This is especially true if the student usually sleeps at 10 pm and wakes up at 6 am. Even if the student sleeps for 8 hours, that sleep may not be a comfortable, rested sleep. Healthy sleep needs to be restful, consistent, and long enough for the body to get multiple deep sleep cycles in.
As an expert, this might be obvious to you, but I think it would be instructive to articulate this for our readers. Let’s imagine a hypothetical 35-year-old adult who was not getting enough sleep. After working diligently at it for 6 months he or she began to sleep well and got the requisite hours of sleep. How will this person’s life improve? Can you help articulate some of the benefits this person will see after starting to get enough sleep? Can you explain?
Not being able to get a good night’s sleep can cause all sorts of problems for a person’s body, family, social, and work life. It can make them unproductive at work and at home, and worse, irritable, stressed, and quick to anger.
With good quality, rested sleep, an individual’s life can improve significantly. Being able to enjoy quality sleep after months of not getting enough sleep means that the individual won’t feel as tired and sleepy during the day. This can translate to increased performance and enjoyment in daily activities including work, home, and social life. They are also less likely to be irritable and stressed. This can significantly improve their relationships with colleagues, friends, and loved ones.
The body will also be able to function better, with less instances of malaise, illness, or aches and pains. A well-rested body allows essential processes to perform to their fullest potential, with a great example being the immune system, which takes a huge hit when we’re not well-rested. A well-rested body is also more likely to recover from physical exertion quickly and process caloric intake healthily, which is a big part of why sleep is an important part of fitness and weight loss strategies.
Many things provide benefits but they aren’t necessarily a priority. Should we make getting a good night’s sleep a major priority in our life? Can you explain what you mean?
Yes, I think we definitely should. A good night’s sleep brings numerous benefits for the body, mind, and soul. Additionally, a lack of quality sleep is strongly correlated with shorter lifespans in humans. Sleep provides rest and rejuvenation for the body and the mind in a way that pretty much nothing else can. It’s essential to life and therefore prioritizing it is non-negotiable. A tired body and mind can lead to different issues including poor mental health, physical vulnerability to illness and injury, and lower overall quality of life. When someone is unable to sleep, they might have disturbing thoughts, a tendency towards negative outlooks, and a general sense of uneasiness or frustration. In the bright light of day after a good night’s sleep, thinking becomes clearer and healthier. Our minds simply can’t function without sleep. A good night’s sleep can bring levity, strength, and energy to one’s body and a more refreshed outlook of one’s life and circumstances. Saying “I’ll sleep on it” prior to making a decision is typically a great idea because we have the science to suggest that it really helps.
The truth is that most of us know that it’s important to get better sleep. But while we know it intellectually, it’s often difficult to put it into practice and make it a part of our daily habits. In your opinion what are the 3 main blockages that prevent us from taking the information that we all know, and integrating it into our lives? How should we remove those obstacles?
I think the three main blockages to getting better sleep include: extensive use of technology, busy lifestyles, and poor diet.
These days, our cell phones and smart technology are integral parts of our lives. Sometimes, these devices are taken to bed, which is a place that easily becomes a venue for a scrolling session rather than a sleep session. This can keep the mind and senses stimulated and keep the person awake and alert for longer, often shortening their sleeping window. Blue light, which can come from indoor lights, TVs, and smart devices, directly interferes with the release of melatonin, the hormone that helps us fall asleep. Most of the content we see online resonates with us emotionally, triggering the release of stress hormones that can further interfere with our ability to fall asleep and gain quality sleep.
Insufficient physical activity is also another obstacle that prevents people from getting good sleep. I know that, on days where I don’t exercise, I have a hard time falling asleep because I feel like I still have energy to spend. The body undergoes a suite of physiological processes during and after exercise, many of which contribute to a healthier circadian rhythm and sleep quality. That said, it’s important not to exercise too soon before bed. Giving your body a few hours to cool down and relax is important for sleep.
Having unhealthy or busy lifestyles has also become a major obstacle to good sleep. Work, home, and social obligations can make people so busy that they only get a few hours of sleep each night. It’s crucial to realize that sleep needs to be prioritized over social obligations or chores, but many people fail to do so for numerous understandable reasons. Many jobs require long hours and leave little time to simply maintain a daily work/life balance. Sleep ends up getting sacrificed, and I think that’s a huge problem. Poor diet can also prevent people from getting good sleep, causing discomfort, bloating, or agitation in the body. This can include alcohol, caffeine, and fatty foods. Alcohol and caffeine stimulate the brain and disrupt sleeping patterns. Although alcohol can lead to drowsiness, it greatly threatens sleep quality by preventing deep sleep. Fatty foods take longer to digest and often cause acid reflux, so they’re best eaten many hours before bed time. Being unaware of the ways our body interacts with food, drink, and drugs can often make it easy to be deficient in quality sleep.
Do you think getting “good sleep” is more difficult today than it was in the past?
Yes. I think good sleep is more difficult today than it ever was in the past. This is because of the massive and extensive use of electronic devices in modern societies. With the mass availability of these devices, we are now constantly connected to what is happening in the world, not to mention constantly exposed to noise and light that previously would not have been as pervasive during the night. Even in our beds, these gadgets are often by our sides and, when we wake up, checking the phone is often the first thing we do. Nowadays, it’s normal for people to fall asleep while clutching their phones and as a result, sleeping 8 hours at night has become something of a luxury. Yes, people may be in their beds for 8, even 10 hours a day, but how many of those hours are spent browsing the internet, watching videos, reading electronic books, or arguing with someone on social media?
The contemporary lifestyle is constructed around habits that do not favor sleep. We are more sedentary, active during the evenings, and isolated from the sun than ever before. Technology only makes it harder to escape the stimulus of the world, with our sleep suffering most of all because of it.
Ok. Here is the main question of our discussion. Can you please share “5 Things You Need to Know to Get the Sleep You Need”? If you can, kindly share a story or example for each.
1. Avoid bringing any electronic devices with you to bed. Limiting screen time is important in order to prevent being overstimulated before sleep. Keep the cellphone, tablet, or laptop out of your bedroom when you sleep. This means not bringing work with you to bed and switching off from social media at bed time. If you must have your cell phone with you for emergencies, keep it in your nightstand, not on your bed.
2. Avoid drinking alcoholic beverages, caffeine, and other stimulating drinks during the hours before bed. These drinks can make it hard for you to get to sleep because they stimulate the senses for hours. The caffeine in these drinks takes hours to work through your system and these drinks can have a stimulating effect on your brain that will prevent quality sleep. Caffeine also blocks signals of tiredness in the brain. Some caffeinated drinks can also cause acid reflux, which in turn can lead to stomach and throat pain. These conditions are not favorable for sleeping.
3. Avoid eating large meals before bed, and be sure to give your digestion at least two hours before going to bed. Large meals consumed before bed time often cause indigestion and upset stomach, which can make it difficult for you to get to sleep. Midnight snacks are actually not typically advisable because they are not conducive to a good night’s sleep.
4. Prepare a sleep-friendly environment. Make sure the lights are turned off or turned down low, the bed is clean and comfortable, and the environment is not noisy or illuminated. The sleep environment should also be very much based on one’s personal preference. In general, low light to no light is recommended for a good night’s sleep. Bright lights can be stimulating for the eyes and can discourage sleep. Low, soft light can be preferred by some, but others may want complete darkness when sleeping. Current science suggests complete darkness is ideal and I’d say that an eye mask can make that easy to achieve. The mattress or bed should also be conducive to sleep, with enough firmness to support the spine without inflicting too much pressure on joints. Finally, in terms of noise and sounds, there are some who prefer white noise when they sleep. However, there are others who prefer not to have any noise at all. Each individual should make sure their sleeping environment would match their preferences. Using earplugs can be a great way to keep noise away if you can’t control your environment’s sound levels as much as you’d like.
What would you advise someone who wakes up in the middle of the night and can’t fall back to sleep?
I’d advise them to practice some relaxation techniques, including deep breathing exercises and meditation. I’d also recommend drinking something warm, not coffee of course. Warm milk is the better option. I would also advise them to listen to soft music or read a book. Finally, I’d advise them to take a hot shower or bath. Any of these recommendations can help one relax and get back to sleep. Importantly, if the bed just isn’t feeling comfortable, move to another location like the couch to relax and get drowsy a bit. Sometimes we just need a little reset in order to get to sleep.
What are your thoughts about taking a nap during the day? Is that a good idea, or can it affect the ability to sleep well at night?
Yes, I would generally recommend power naps, but it ultimately depends on the individual. These short naps, which last no longer than 20–30 minutes, can help re-energize the mind and body. Sleeping for longer, however, can affect the ability of a person to sleep well at night. It’s best to focus on how you feel after a nap. If you feel energized and better after a power nap, then use that to your advantage. However, if the power nap leaves you feeling even more drowsy, and interferes with your quality of sleep at night, it may not be a good fit for your body.
Wonderful. We are nearly done. Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)
I’d love to sit down with Mark Cuban and pick his brain to hopefully glean a better understanding of what the process has been like for one of his newest ventures, Cost Plus Drugs. I value disruptions in the medical industry that really help people, and from an entrepreneurial perspective I think he’s been able to find an admirable balance between success and actually contributing something to the industry that works in the consumer’s interest. Mark’s experience as an entrepreneur reflects a diverse set of interests, which resonates with me since I’ve got so many things I love to do outside of running a business and treating patients. I think it’d also be great to see what kind of direction he’d take a business like MAPS in if he was a decision maker, because although I think we benefit from a very patient-focused healthcare environment, I would still like to be receptive to new ideas about scaling things and making our care more accessible to those who need it.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
At https://www.mwpain.com/ we have a blog that’s regularly updated with practice-related content that can really help people get a better idea of what they might be dealing with. We are also active on X https://x.com/MWPainSpecialty, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/mwpain/, and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mwpainspecialists/. I am also constantly working with publications and journalists to get more information to the public about overcoming chronic pain and achieving the best quality of life they possibly can.
This was very meaningful, thank you so much. We wish you only continued success on your great work!
About the Interviewer: Shawna Robins is an international best-selling author of two books — Powerful Sleep — Rest Deeply, Repair Your Brain and Restore Your Life, and Irresistibly Healthy — Simple Strategies to Feel Vibrant, Alive, Healthy and Full of Energy Again. Shawna is the founder and CEO of Third Spark, an online wellness hub for women over 40 who want to reignite their sleep, reset healthier habits and respark their lives. Shawna is a sleep expert, hormone health expert, and a National Board-Certified Health and Wellness Coach (NBHWC). She has been featured on many podcasts including Dr. Mindy Pelz’s “The Resetter Podcast” and in Authority Magazine, Thrive Global, and The Huffington Post. A free download of her latest book can be found at www.thirdsparkhealth.com/powerful-sleep/ You can follow her on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
