Social Impact Tech: Andy Cargile of SMART Technologies On How Their Technology Will Make An Important Positive Impact
Game-based learning is a key opportunity for kids to learn, especially with GenZ. Games allow learners to try, fail, and learn in a way that is non-judgmental, familiar, and fun. It allows them to take risks safely and try new things. Games offer a natural reinforcement cycle and encourage “replay.” In this case, “replay” is practice learning a topic or skill.
In recent years, Big Tech has gotten a bad rep. But of course many tech companies are doing important work making monumental positive changes to society, health, and the environment. To highlight these, we started a new interview series about “Technology Making An Important Positive Social Impact”. We are interviewing leaders of tech companies who are creating or have created a tech product that is helping to make a positive change in people’s lives or the environment. As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Andy Cargile.
Andy leads the game-based learning business at SMART Technologies. He is a seasoned user experience leader in both hardware and software products and an award-winning game designer in game-based learning with a relentless passion for learners. For almost 40 years, he has led teams in startups, consultancies, large corporations, and higher education, creating products that solve meaningful needs and that make a difference.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory and how you grew up?
I grew up in a very loving family in a small town in California. I went to high school in a very tough neighborhood with gangs, and most of the students there didn’t go on to college. I worked hard to escape that environment through learning and was able to attend Stanford University.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
The most interesting one is also the one I describe a few questions below, about why I am passionate about this cause.
Another involves lawyers having to read through massive numbers of emails in order to identify evidence of a “smoking gun” in intellectual property cases. Words are linear and slow to work through. In one of the startups I worked with, we created a visual information display that identified the patterns in the documents for the lawyers who were reading them. It looked and felt like a video game, allowing the lawyers to navigate what looked like a star field of information. And for them, it was far less tedious. I got to work with an incredibly talented team of people and saw firsthand how you can use technology to radically transform the ways people do things.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
You are very correct! I’ve been fortunate to have many who have helped me throughout my career. My first and perhaps most profound example is with one of my teachers in high school. He believed in me and knew I needed more than the school could offer. He worked with me on some advanced math and helped in other ways. I’m sure I would not have gotten into Stanford without his generosity.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
It may not be the most optimistic to some, but Nietzsche’s “what does not kill me, makes me stronger” has always had deep meaning to me. Things can be tough and don’t always go your way. How we react to difficult situations determines if we move forward and learn or just give up. This has helped me evolve and become comfortable taking risks in my career and my life.
You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Passion
When you believe in what you do, people will join you, even if something seems like a crazy idea. When I started working on game-based learning at SMART, it was very different from what we were already doing — SMARTBoards. Few thought that it would go anywhere. My passion for how game-based learning could help learners, especially GenZ, helped create believers and a path toward our game-based learning business.
Demonstrate with results, or “Just Do It”
It’s often very easy in high tech to have seemingly endless debates about things. I credit my time with Microsoft with helping me learn that “just doing it” goes so much further than debate. At Microsoft Hardware, we talked and debated about creating products that users would really love and for which we could charge a premium. Almost everyone was comfortable with the status quo and with not trying anything new. Instead of trying to make the case with words, my team and I created some stunning prototypes. Once people saw them, they became believers and were willing to move forward with them. For many years that product was a bestseller, a top product in several countries, and won many awards. Demonstrating with results is difficult, but in the end it can save a lot of time and create a path forward. It can also help you kill a bad idea quickly.
Courage
Most people dislike change. Trying something new, especially when a company is already successful, is hard. It’s easy and safe to keep turning the same crank. But real innovation involves risk. In 70 years, Boeing had not done any research observing people’s behavior in flight. There were several challenges in trying this and many “organizational antibodies” against it. We persevered and did it. We gained a whole new understanding about what people needed when they flew, and these insights led to innovation.
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion about the tech tools that you are helping to create that can make a positive social impact on our society. To begin, what problems are you aiming to solve?
The key problem is engaging kids in learning and helping them with more difficult learning challenges. For example, many learners dislike math, especially fractions (so do many teachers and parents). They don’t think they can be “good” at it and give up.
Tanya, one of the early learners we talked to said that school went through fractions too quickly for her. There were tests and homework, but she never really “got” how you work with fractions, so the practice didn’t help. She told me that she knew they would only work on fractions for a few weeks and then move on to something else, so she didn’t really need to learn how to do them. Fractions are a gateway into higher math and science, but she was already willing to give up. That’s why we chose to start with Common Core fractions.
A secondary problem is parental engagement. Most teachers will tell you that parental involvement is the primary factor in the success of a student. Yet, as kids learn more challenging topics — ones that are outside their parent’s comfort zone — their parent(s) might feel like they can’t be as involved.
How do you think your technology can address this?
Game-based learning is a key opportunity for kids to learn, especially with GenZ. Games allow learners to try, fail, and learn in a way that is non-judgmental, familiar, and fun. It allows them to take risks safely and try new things. Games offer a natural reinforcement cycle and encourage “replay.” In this case, “replay” is practice learning a topic or skill.
We chose to start with Common Core fractions in Monsters vs. Fractions because it was atopic kids disliked. If we could prove the value of game-based learning there, then it could be used anywhere. Unlike many math games though, we didn’t just offer “practice” in doing the math. We listened to kids like Tanya. We started with the basic principles behind fractions so that kids could understand “how” to do them before they just repetitively practiced them.
We built engaging characters and stories to guide them through the increasingly more challenging aspects of fractions. We used typical game mechanics to engage them as they played (like achievements), and we also added game interactions where they could create things. Not only is creativity one of the 21st-century learning skills, it is also a powerful motivator for kids.
Can you tell us the backstory about what inspired you to originally feel passionate about this cause?
In grad school in Chicago (1994), we had an assignment to create interactive media to teach kids in the inner city a chapter from their science textbook. These kids were smart and savvy, but many could not read well. Interactive media at the time just meant adding movies and pictures…to a lot of words. I wanted to learn what really excited the kids and start there. They played a lot of Mortal Kombat on stand-up arcade machines. They could tell me in intimate detail how Sub-Zero could best defeat Scorpion. So instead of “interactive media,” I created a Mortal Kombat-style video game where they fought germs with the body’s immune system. They learned in detail how the immune system worked using the game mechanics, and they did it without having to read a lot. The game allowed them to develop an interest in science that incented them to learn more, even if they had to read.
How do you think this might change the world?
GenZ is incredibly adept with technology. I’ve seen ninth graders who are already coding in Unity, one of the top software tools in game development. Game-based learning reaches them through a medium they love and are familiar with. It reframes learning as a game-like challenge where they can be comfortable trying and failing in order to find their own path through the material.
Game-based learning also allows learning to happen outside of the classroom. Homework can lose its negative connotation and become something learners want to do. When you consider the social aspects of competition and collaboration in games, learners get even more engaged. Imagine that instead of sitting at home, alone, doing homework, learners work together with their friends to solve problems and learn. After all, that’s what they’ll be doing as adults. Collaboration and communication are two more 21st-century learning skills.
Game-based learning can bring parents into the learning loop as well. Games like Monsters vs. Fractions can offer parents visibility and involvement in their child’s learning journey. If parents understand how their child is learning a difficult topic, they too can be more engaged.
Keeping “Black Mirror” and the “Law of Unintended Consequences” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks about this technology that people should think more deeply about?
Absolutely. Game-based learning is not meant to replace teachers; it’s meant to augment what they do and extend learning outside the classroom. It works best when there is a teacher who can still guide the learning. Learners, of course, gravitate to games and screens and there is risk there as well. That’s why it needs to be part of a holistic learning plan and not a solution in isolation.
Here is the main question for our discussion. Based on your experience and success, can you please share “Five things you need to know to successfully create technology that can make a positive social impact”? (Please share a story or an example, for each.)
1. Understand your users.
I can’t overstate this enough. If you don’t understand your user’s needs deeply, then it is incredibly difficult to create something that solves their problem. If you simply ask them what they want, they’ll give you an answer based on their experience, not one that hasn’t been created yet. There’s an adage that says that if Henry Ford had asked customers what they wanted, he would have created a faster horse.
Early on, we watched how kids learn, everything from doing crazy tricks on Razor scooters to art and music. We found that kids can learn on their own very well, thank you very much (!), at least, when they are engaged and have some good guidance when they need it. They all follow a simple process where they try the basics, fail, figure it out, and then practice getting better. We also saw that in school, especially in math, they often didn’t have enough time or focus on the basics before they were thrust into practice, practice, practice (aka homework). When we looked at many math games, they too were focused on the practice, not the basics. This was the missing piece that learners needed. It was a key insight in creating Monsters vs. Fractions.
2. Prototype and iterate, and then evaluate your work with users relentlessly.
Whatever you create, you will rarely get it right the first time. Prototyping means that you create something with little effort, that you won’t get wed to, and get early feedback on it. You fix the things that don’t work and iterate. This contrasts with developing a full product with lots of effort and releasing it, and only then learning you missed something.
Then, evaluate the effectiveness of what you created. In high tech, we can get so caught up in the novelty or innovation of something that we lose sight of the people we are creating for. We are too close to what we build to know if our users can use our product easily. We can make assumptions. That’s why we need to let our users try out our product along the way, and we need to see where they struggle.
When we first started working with fractions and game-based learning, we did a design sprint and created prototypes of several different games and approaches to fractions in about a week. Most had interactive exercises, and several had a theme, like space. The exercises were all pedagogically sound and based on input from very experienced math teachers and instructional designers. Only one had characters and a story. When we evaluated them with kids, they overwhelmingly went for the one with a story and characters. It instantly engaged them and gave them things to care about beyond the math. If we hadn’t tried out several low-effort solutions, we might have settled on an approach that had good math exercises but was lackluster and unengaging.
In almost 40 years, I’ve never done a usability study of a product I’ve created that hasn’t revealed something important that I missed.
3. Work with people who are passionate and love what they do.
You asked about three character traits for success earlier. This doubles-down on one of them. Creation is a team sport. Team synergy is always important in high tech and other areas. To create social impact, it helps to have a talented team who really believes in the social impact and are passionate about it. And it’s important to create an environment where they thrive.
My gaming team members are based in locations around the world. I have never met any of them in person. We communicate regularly, but rarely with video. Some don’t speak English. But, they are all passionate about learning and games. We work together extremely well; they have creative freedom, and they love what they do. We are all on a shared mission to make a difference in learning. And that’s a key reason why we have been successful and able to develop our games in such an incredibly short time frame.
4. Ask for help.
This one is a favorite from Zombieland. 😊 No one can know everything. You’ll often have as many bad ideas as good ones. “Winging it” may get you to a product, but not one as good as when you have others help.
I had not created a commercial game-based learning game before Monsters vs. Fractions. Early on, we created a proof of concept that followed some very pedagogically sound approaches. I had an amazing instructional designer help with this, as I was out of my element in how kids learn fractions nowadays. We had interesting characters and a great story. The game felt like fun interactive exercises when compared to creative paper homework. However, it didn’t feel fun like a video game. I polled my network and found an incredible game designer (he created the genre of online battle card games) and asked for help. We ended up redesigning the game mechanics and several other things to make it a true game. And that set us on the right path to success.
5. Create your own way.
I could probably have worded this many ways: “embrace risk,” “don’t be afraid to try something new,” etc. The key misstep I’ve seen in my experience in high tech is following the taillights of a competitor. There is so much energy spent on keeping up with the competition that it leaves little time for thinking of new ways to do something. I’ve found this to be true particularly with v2+ versions of products. It’s easier to add incremental features vs. rethink what you are doing entirely.
Monsters vs. Fractions episodes one and two established a good path forward. Episode two was better than episode one, and so on. Some other game-based learning products that were successful focused more on the game than the learning and were popular. They emphasized the practice. It would have been easy to follow that path, but we didn’t. Per #1, we kept our focus on the learning process as a whole. But we also didn’t just crank out the same style of episode one after another. For episode three, we tried something new: letting learners create robots using fractions. In episode four, we also tried something new by giving them a fully explorable environment and letting them choose the order in which they learned things. Each of those approaches has allowed us to evolve the game and the ways we think about it. I would rather let competitors copy us and spend our time finding better, faster, stronger ways of improving the learning we provide. Ways our competitors will copy while we continue to innovate. It will only make game-based learning better for everyone.
If you could tell other young people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our environment or society, like you, what would you tell them?
We all get better when we help everyone get better, as a culture, as a society, as a species. Sadly, especially today, we often seem at odds. We seemed to have lost the skill to work together. In the work world, we often seem pushed to focus on profits, our career, our title, and our salary. In high tech, you also tend to work a lot. It’s very heartening to know that your efforts are going toward more than a company bottom line and you are working with people who are passionate about a cause.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)
Greta Thunberg. To me, she embodies the optimism and the activism of people who are starting their journey. She jumped in and started doing something even though she had little social power. I would love to see more of this in the high tech industry. Personally, I am a huge proponent of working toward better solutions for climate change. I think much of the innovation in that space will come from younger people who have to confront the reality that they are inheriting a world that is less than it should be.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Very soon we will have a Discord channel. Meanwhile, I can add you to a notification list if you email me at andycargile@smarttech.com.
Thank you so much for joining us. This was very inspirational, and we wish you continued success in your important work.
About the Interviewer: Jilea Hemmings is a staunch believer in the power of entrepreneurship. A successful career revamping Fortune 500 companies was not enough for her entrepreneurial spirit, so Jilea began focusing her passion in startups. She has successfully built 6 startups to date. Her passion for entrepreneurship continues to flourish with the development of Stretchy Hair Care, focusing on relieving the pain associated with detangling and styling natural black hair. For far too long, people with tender heads have suffered in pain. Until now.
