Social Impact Tech: Jim Moseley of Sun FireDefense On How Their Technology Will Make An Important Positive Impact
Saving as many lives and homes as possible in wildfire areas. Because wildfires are making climate change worse and climate change is causing more fires, if I can help mitigate any part of this vicious cycle, I feel like I am contributing to the greater good.
In recent years, Big Tech has gotten a bad rep. But of course many tech companies are doing important work making monumental positive changes to society, health, and the environment. To highlight these, we started a new interview series about “Technology Making An Important Positive Social Impact”. We are interviewing leaders of tech companies who are creating or have created a tech product that is helping to make a positive change in people’s lives or the environment. As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Jim Moseley of Sun FireDefense.
Jim Moseley is a deeply curious Ph.D. with a knack for reverse engineering solutions to big problems. A native Kansas City Missourian, it was living in the state of California that led him develop wildfire solutions that would really make a difference. In 2017 when nineteen elite hotshot firefighters perished in a blaze under their department-issued portable fire shelters, he was spurred into motion to create Sun FireDefense. The company’s standout product is a patented clear liquid fire retardant called SPF3000 which mixes into stains and paints and in vigorous multiple-year tests by the Department of Energy on their power poles, the treatment extinguishes flames on building materials. Attracting a 30-year veteran of the Los Angeles County Fire Department as one of his first investors, successes are accumulating, including the defense of houses in two of California’s most destructive fires, the (Woolsey and Skirball), while the neighborhoods around them burned to the ground.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory and how you grew up?
I grew up in Kansas City, MO. in a great, hardworking family with good values. I was very musically inclined and learned piano when I was five and started trombone when I was 12. My father died when I was fourteen and my mom took care of my two sisters and me. I started playing professionally at the age of seventeen and studied at UMKC Conservatory of Music my senior year. Though I pursued music as a first career, I have been an entrepreneur in vastly different industries, the basics of which come from understanding and playing with the intricacies of music.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
In the Belair Skirball fire, we treated the house the year before because they just put an all-wood façade on front of house, which faced the Getty Center. That was the fire from hell, where both sides of the 405 freeway were burning. Every house in the neighborhood burned down to the ground, but for this house, it melted the trash can out in front and did some very minor damage; it was a $6M home.
In Malibu’s Coral Canyon, a couple had given us a deposit to do their home, but the start date happened to be 2 weeks after the Woolsey fire came roaring through that area. They called in a panic saying the fire was coming through their canyon, burning down every home in its path, and asked if there was anything we could do. They said the firefighters were not coming. We agreed to do what we could, so we went up there and plugged all their vents and covered their windows with our fire blanket product and sprayed as much SPF3000 that we could so it would be dry before the fire got there. They were evacuated, and then our team eventually had to evacuate. 4 or 5 days later when they were allowed to get back to the house, it was the only one left standing.
None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
A life mentor of mine named Tom Thorkelson. He recruited me to Mass Mutual in Newport Beach when I was 19. He had thirteen kids, one hundred grandkids, adopted and sent many of them to college and is a bishop of a Mormon church. He climbed Mt. Everest when he turned seventy, however his best trait was just being a wonderful, giving person with great morals and ethics.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“The only easy day was yesterday” (a Navy Seal quote). This reminds me that when life gets more challenging, one must accept, learn, and endure it. This is a quality I have attempted to instill into my two amazing kids. Now that they are adults this attitude is proving to be what I consider amount the best life lessons that I have been able to pass along so far. One last spiritual thing that I hope to pass on to them is “there is no life or death, only transformation.” This has given me an amount of certainty of life continuum.
You are a successful business leader. Which three-character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success?
I have more than 3!
- Perseverance and staying power.
- Always accepting responsibility as a leader.
- Staying the course.
- Training other people to learn what I know.
- Teaching my kids to take responsibility and becoming leaders themselves.
Can you please share a story or example for each?
About perseverance and staying the course — when I launched Sun FireDefense, we had a disruptive product that was being challenged by competitors and politicians, which was like fighting an 800-pound gorilla. Staying the course when that happened was a huge deal. For me, I force myself to stay in a creative mode, exercise a lot and take care of myself. I cannot afford to get bogged down with things I cannot control. I simply put one foot in front of the other, stay in present time and don’t let the noise keep me from moving forward.
About Teaching my kids to take responsibility — My son has a surf wax company called Sister Betsy’s Surf wax, so I see him emulating me as I struggled through starting several companies. It’s very rewarding to see him learn from mistakes, make good decisions, and handle people in a way that sets him up for success. He just joint-ventured with Surf line the #1 surf report in the world! I am most proud when I see him gracefully handle when negative things that can be taken to heart and move past it. One of the lessons I taught him came from my mentor, Ed Hiner, “There are no bad soldiers, just bad leaders. When leaders take responsibility of soldiers and not blame them; that’s extreme ownership.
Ok super. Let us now shift to the main part of our discussion about the tech tools that you are helping to create that can make a positive social impact on our society. To begin, what problems are you aiming to solve?
Saving as many lives and homes as possible in wildfire areas. Because wildfires are making climate change worse and climate change is causing more fires, if I can help mitigate any part of this vicious cycle, I feel like I am contributing to the greater good.
How do you think your technology can address this?
At this year’s World Economic Forum, some of the foremost professors and researchers about wildfires reported, and I quote: “the CO2 levels are 50% above those of the preindustrial era. New research has found that increase bouts of severe drought and low humidity are extending the length of the “fire weather season,” and at a much faster rate than climate models have predicted. Slowing and reversing the accumulation of CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the Earth’s atmosphere will slow the acceleration of wildfire risk.”
They found that “the length of the fire weather season has already expanded significantly in many regions since the 1980s. On average, this season has lengthened by 27% globally. The number of days with extreme fire weather — when temperatures are particularly high, recent rainfall and humidity is particularly low and winds can fan a blaze — has become 54% more frequent at the global level. Because of this, larger and more severe fires that are difficult to contain are now more likely than they were in the past. This is one of the reasons that some of the recent fires in the western US or Australia have been so extensive and damaging.”
One of my first investors is a fire professional of 30 years. Spending time around fire pros made me realize that most people depend solely on the reactionary services of fire professionals, when in fact, there are not enough feet on the ground to save every home. It is imperative, especially given the statistics above, that homeowners be proactive and do what they can to protect their home before fire shows up.
What I am suggesting is that proactivity vs reactivity is what wins in the end.
Can you tell us the backstory about what inspired you to originally feel enthusiastic about this cause?
I stumbled upon someone who was utilizing a simple ceramic fiber blanket (a similar material used on the Space Shuttle after the missions ended) and this served as inspiration to re-fabricate aspects of it and adapt it to a new consumer fire retardant product.
How do you think this might change the world?
Climate change is having a severe effect on fire weather all over the world. If we can participate in mitigating the release of more CO2 into the atmosphere, I would say that is a great contribution. The more extreme fires that burn vegetation, the more significant toll it has on the ecosystem and in the end, emits more CO₂ to the atmosphere. Slowing the rate of Co2 into the air will slow the proliferation of wildfires. We need to keep global warming under 2 degrees Celsius.
What we do really matters — especially right now.
So, going back to being proactive: what you do to mitigate fire spread also affects the overall health of our planet.
Over 50% of the homes destroyed in wildfires are not even in the direct path of the fire; the culprit is embers that can blow miles away. Again, relying on fire professionals to save your home is not always possible. They can only do so much once a fire has started. We are focused on proactivity.
We created a patented clear spray (that can be mixed into stains or paints) that starves fire-feeding oxygen from a building material. Because wildfires tend to burn at approximately 1400 degrees, we evaluated it at higher temperatures: for 15 min @ 2100F and 6 minutes @ 3000.
This simple proactive step gives us all a chance to really make a difference.
Keeping “Black Mirror” and the “Law of Unintended Consequences” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks about this technology that people should think more deeply about?
People have been reactive; dependent on fire insurance and not taking the necessary steps to protect their homes beyond clearing brush around their homes. I do not think people realize how much larger of a problem this is; it is not just about saving your home but mitigating wildfires that are impacting the planet.
On top of this, thousands of homeowners in wildfire areas do not enough insurance because the private insurance companies refuse to give them policies. Did you know that the State of California subsidizes homes in these areas with scant state insurance that barely covers replacement?
Homeowners need prepare as if they are on their own, especially in rural areas. The fire departments can only do so much. For example, in the Woolsey Fire there were somewhere close to four hundred homes that burned with probably 8 to 10 fire departments in surrounding areas.
Here is the main question for our discussion. Based on your experience and success, can you please share “Five things you need to know to successfully create technology that can make a positive social impact”?
1. Understand your mission from the beginning.
2. Map out a lot of small steps along the way.
3. Hire the smartest people in their fields to gain the maximum knowledge.
4. Hire the best legal you can afford to protect your ideas and efforts.
5. Never get complacent (someone will always be trying to knock you off). It took me 3 years to get my newly approved patent. During that time, I had countless scenarios where others tried to slow my progress.
If you could tell other young people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our environment or society, like you, what would you tell them?
We owe it to our planet and our fellow inhabitants to be good citizens. The respect that you earn by helping others is contagious. It’s always going to be an uphill challenge with lots of obstacles to overcome and you need to keep your vision clear and strong to permeate and shift markets with your innovations.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)
Jeff Bezos. I would like to be able to pick his brain on how he scaled Amazon. Aside from arduous work and all the stars aligning at the right time, I think he must have had a formula (that I don’t fully comprehend) to be able to scale that big in any amount of time.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Thank you so much for joining us. This was very inspirational, and we wish you continued success in your important work.
