Toby Carrodus On The Self-Care Routines & Practices Of Busy Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders

An Interview With Maria Angelova

Focus on the Process: It can be easy to get distracted by external forces outside of your control. Instead of letting your focus drift to such factors, it is important instead to focus on the variables you can control, such as your own process. Having a good process is important in life as well as trading.

All of us know that we have to take breaks in our day to take care of ourselves. “Selfcare is healthcare”, the saying goes. At the same time, we know that when you are a busy leader with enormous responsibility on your shoulders, it’s so easy to prioritize the urgent demands of work over the important requirements of self-care. How do busy entrepreneurs and leaders create space to properly take care of themselves? What are the self-care routines of successful entrepreneurs and business leaders? In this interview series, we are talking to busy and successful entrepreneurs, business leaders, and civic leaders who can discuss their self-care practices and self-care routines. As a part of this series, I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Toby Carrodus.

Toby Carrodus is a successful, multi-millionaire trader focused on systematic global macro strategies spanning commodities, bonds, currencies and stock indices. He has worked in London, Frankfurt, Los Angeles and Sydney for some of the largest and most elite money managers in the world, such as PIMCO and Winton.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! It is an honor. Our readers would love to learn more about your personal background. Can you please share with our readers your personal backstory; What has brought you to this point in your life?

I grew up in a small, tropical town called Cairns. In my younger years, Cairns had the highest unemployment rate in Australia. This made me quite interested in understanding what drives unemployment and the economy. This fascination deepened during a high school exchange year in Eastern Germany, which bore many scars from its years serving as the front line in the ideological battle between communism and capitalism. This naturally led me to study economics, fortuitously (or not) during the Global Financial Crisis.

After graduating, I naturally gravitated to the bond market, which is where you can directly observe global macroeconomics in action. I was lucky enough to land a job at the legendary trading firm PIMCO. Here I became interested in what PIMCO termed “structural alpha.” This was more or less PIMCO’s fancy term for “systematic trading.” They had identified that there existed persistent, repeatable and structural features of markets that could generate excess returns.

After observing some of the discretionary portfolio managers around me manage money using “gut feeling”, I felt this approach to trading was unsustainable and it would be difficult to establish if you truly had any “edge” in the market. In contrast, systematic trading seemed sustainable. By testing hypotheses on data, it seemed easier to identify if one had any “edge” or not. I became so captivated by this more scientific, data-driven approach that it has since underpinned my entire trading philosophy.

Nowadays, I work for a global trading firm as a proprietary trader, trading 100% systematically both long and short across bonds, stock indices, currencies and commodities.

How do you define success? Can you please explain what you mean from a personal anecdote?

To many, success means having a lot of money. I think it is more subjective than that. Everyone has a different life. To me, I think it is about being the architect of your own life, achieving what you set out to achieve and being fulfilled by the journey.

I remember many years ago dreaming about being able to work as a researcher at a systematic trading firm, being able to listen to Mozart while coding, generating consistently high returns, living by the beach and being able to surf every day. A few years later I recalled this vision and was dumbfounded when I realized that this was exactly the life I was living! I certainly enjoyed the quest to get there and had an appreciation in that moment of how much my reality had changed.

What is the role of a growth mindset in your success? Can you please share 3 mindset mantras that keep you motivated, sane, and propel you forward?

Mindset is a greatly underestimated topic. It is subtle yet it influences everything we do. Your mindset influences the actions you take in an almost self-fulfilling way due to our inherent confirmation bias. For example, if you embark on a new venture and think it will fail, you likely won’t put much effort in and say “see, I told you it wouldn’t work.” If in contrast you expected it to be a huge success, you would be more inclined to take massive action. This will at least give you a better shot at succeeding. John Henry Ford summarized this effect best by stating “whether you think you can or can’t, you’re probably right.”

Three mindset mantras I found useful are:

Memento Mori: This has helped me during my darkest times. Memento mori is Latin for “remember that one day we all die.” I have found that being cognisant of mortality has helped me process significant challenges by putting them in perspective in the grand scheme of life.

No matter how big your problem is, oftentimes it helps to reflect on the fact that one day, everything around you will be gone and we will all be dead. Essentially, we are nothing more than ants on a giant rock hurtling through space and time, here for a fleeting moment. Thinking about this also gives me a strong appreciation for the present moment.

Focus on the Process: It can be easy to get distracted by external forces outside of your control. Instead of letting your focus drift to such factors, it is important instead to focus on the variables you can control, such as your own process. Having a good process is important in life as well as trading.

For example, in trading you’re often dealing with probability and uncertainty. You might have a profitable process in place that “on average” makes money in the market over a number of trades, but the outcome of any single given trade is random. A good process is therefore expected to yield bad outcomes from time to time. To be successful, it is therefore important to focus your efforts on controlling what you can (the process) and not fretting too much about any single outcome of the process (what is outside of your control). Of course, if you experience too many adverse outcomes, you should incorporate that feedback to update your process.

Keep It Simple: Things are only as complicated or simple as you make them. It’s easy to make things complicated by obsessing over nitty gritty details. While it is often important to get the details right (especially in trading), don’t make things so complicated that you cannot execute on them. Remember, complexity is the enemy of execution.

Unfortunately, often in professional settings complex solutions can be sold more easily to stakeholders, as they signal effort, intellect and innovation, but oftentimes they do nothing more than increase the overall fragility of your process in exchange for unmeaningful, statistically insignificant “improvements.” The greater the simplicity and the more general your process is, the more robust it will be to a variety of unforeseen circumstances (and let’s face it, the future is always unknown).

You are by all accounts a very successful person. How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?

Thank you for your kind words, but I am still very early in my career and have so much more to do!

At stages throughout my career, I have endured some harsh working environments and brutal cultures. I don’t think this brings the best out of people. We spend more time at work than we do with our spouses or children, so it is important that we enjoy our time at work. This life is not a dress rehearsal — you only get one — so I am consciously trying to cultivate a friendlier, kinder environment at work to improve the lives of those around me.

Despite trading being a numbers-heavy business, without people there would be no trading. People underpin most of what we do in life. We are all sharing this planet together. I believe we should therefore focus on the people, and improving the lives of those around us, whether they be work colleagues, neighbours, family or strangers for that matter. A little bit of kindness goes a long way.

Can you share a mistake or failure which you now appreciate, and which has taught you a valuable lesson?

My biggest failure stemmed from not committing 100%. Some time ago, I was transitioning between ventures. My heart and mind were set on the new venture but the pressure of having 2 children and a mortgage made me hesitant to take the risk of moving on before I had my ducks in a row. In the end, I stayed longer than I should have and the situation exploded. This put the new venture at risk. In the end, what I feared almost came to fruition not because I took a risk but because I didn’t take a risk!

The key lesson was that once you make a decision, commit 100%, even if things aren’t quite clear yet. Some good did come of this misfortune though, as it highlighted to me how important good people are and how important family is. Money comes and goes. When you die, no matter how rich you are, you can’t take any of your riches with you. What matters most is people and experiences. We’re all going to die one day, so you may as well go after what you want in life without fear. Once you make a decision, go for it and fully commit!

You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?

You’re far too kind with words. Again, I am early in what I see as a long career. To answer your question though, what has helped me is:

Focus: Quieten the noise around you, get very clear on what you want and go after it. Frequently I get opportunities to get involved in new ventures, and while many of them look amazing and the ideas and passion of their founders excite me, most of the time getting involved with them will take me further away from my own long-term goals. Opportunities will come at you all the time after you’ve had some level of success, but it is important to not forget what got you to where you are and what your long-term goals are.

Perseverance: Whatever you’re setting out to do, it’s probably going to take longer than you thought and require more effort than you expected. There will be hiccups and roadblocks on the way. I have personally found regular rituals such as writing my goals down or having some reminder of them nearby really helps to keep me on my path when times get tough — as they inevitably will from time to time.

Resourcefulness: I certainly wasn’t born knowing about global markets, linear algebra or computer programming, but wherever acquiring a skill has aligned with my goals, I’ve done my best to acquire it. In the world of business, if you don’t know how to do something, you can either learn it (even MIT has free, open courses nowadays) or hire someone who knows how to do it. In an age where the world is connected via the internet, being resourceful and accessing world-class knowledge or talent has never been easier.

OK, thank you for all of that. Let’s now shift to the core focus of our interview about Self-Care. Let’s start with a basic definition so that we are all on the same page. What does self-care mean to you?

Self-care for me means carving out regular time to engage in activities that boost your energy, creativity and overall well-being. It helps you to bring the best version of yourself to the world around you.

As a successful leader with an intense schedule, what do you do to prioritize self-care, and carve out regular time to make self-care part of your routine?

I have always been a fan of routines. Some people find that boring, but I have personally found it liberating. If you have a vision that excites you, having a routine each day allows you to consistently chip away at your long-term goals. Let the structure of your routine do the heaving lifting for you.

Being fit and eating healthy are part of my goals, so they get priority in my routine. Generally, I like to exercise in the first half of the day, so I know I’ve fit it in. From experience, the later the day gets, the less likely I am going to exercise.

Part of self-care is also about standards. Sometimes, you’ve got to be sick of not being the best version of yourself! You have to raise your standards in terms of healthy eating and exercise, or whatever is important to you.

Will you please share with our readers 3 of your daily, or frequent self-care habits?

Sure. So first, I try to go to bed early enough in the evening to wake up an hour or two before my kids. This time is golden as it is quiet and completely free of distractions. Tip: avoid your Smart phone during this time if you can.

Second, I aim to exercise early in the day to boost my energy levels for the rest of the day.

Third, I try to make sure there is a fully stocked kitchen of healthy food so I am not tempted to binge on something unhealthy. If it’s there, I’ll probably eat it, so part of my discipline is not buying it in the first place.

This is the main question of our interview. Based on your own experiences or research can you please share 5 ways that taking time for self-care will improve our lives?

Energy: I have found that regular exercise really kicks me into gear and boosts my energy levels throughout the day. Having more energy makes you more productive and pleasant to be around. If I ever go through a phase where I am not exercising much, strangely enough I feel quite tired.

Focus: By regularly carving out a part of your day to exercise, meditate or work on a hobby, you are able to give your mind a rest from all of the noise and distractions of the modern world. It’s important to find time to “switch off.” By doing so, I find that my focus improves throughout the day. I personally find surfing or spending time with my kids a great way to switch off.

Mood: Exercise releases a lot of endorphins and often acts as a “reset” that can dramatically improve your mood. Even on the most stressful of days, I have found hitting the gym very useful for elevating my state of mind. Even if your self-care does not involve exercise, taking time out to do something you enjoy is bound to aide your temperament.

Longevity: Life is a marathon. Hustling and grinding 24/7 is unlikely to be sustainable over the long-run. If you have big hopes and dreams, it can take a lot of time, effort and grit to get to where you want to be. I have found that incorporating some form of self-care makes the journey more enjoyable and helps to avoid burnout.

Creativity: Chaining yourself to a desk and staring at a screen round the clock is not going to foster the creativity required to find new solutions to complex problems. Sometimes, when I’m trying to solve a challenging problem and not making any progress, the best thing I can do is get away from my desk and go for a walk and get some fresh air. Often, in these neutral environments, that is when my best ideas come to me.

Sometimes we learn a great deal from the opposite, from a contrast. Can you please share a few ways that NOT taking time for self-care can harm our lives?

If you don’t take time out for some form of self-care, I think it is reasonably well-documented that the odds of burn-out, depression, unhealthy weight-gain and general health problems are higher. These are clearly all undesirable.

What would you tell someone who says they do not have time or finances to support a regular wellness routine?

If you are blaming time or finances, you must understand that you are basically saying that wellness is just not a high enough priority for you. These are excuses.

To provide some examples of what is possible, exercise has always been a “must” for me, even when time was a serious constraint, like studying full-time while working part-time and attending scholarship seminars on weekends and learning another language in a foreign country. Or, to take an even more extreme example, many years ago I did an internship where it was the norm for interns to work from 08:00am-04:00am Monday to Friday (yes, that is until 4am in the morning) and “only” from 12:00pm-12:00am on Saturdays and Sundays. Needless to say, after my internship ended I decided this work environment was not for me, but while I was doing it, I still found time to step out for a walk or run at lunch, even when it snowed outside. It was just a matter of prioritizing it. If money is your excuse, don’t forget that going for a walk or run is free.

In life, you don’t get your “shoulds.” You only get your non-negotiable “musts.” It’s about making self-care a “must”, removing barriers and forming good habits. Even today, I have two toddlers and trade hundreds of millions of dollars in various time zones and geographies but still make self-care a priority. This allows me to show up for those around me as the best father, colleague, friend, etc that I can be.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we both tag them :-)

No question — Arnold Schwarzenegger! It is mind-blowing that he has gone from being a poor Austrian farm boy to reaching the pinnacle of three of the hardest pursuits in the world: body building, acting and politics. It’s like he has had three lifetimes — many people dedicate their lives to any one of those pursuits and don’t accomplish anything near what he has been able to.

It is pleasing to see that he is still going strong in his 70s. He is still acting, pumping iron, organising world environmental summits, promoting tolerance and giving back to future generations by imparting his wisdom. He is truly an inspiration.

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?

There are many people in my life that I will forever be grateful for having the serendipity to cross paths with. Apart from my family, I was fortunate enough to meet a brilliant individual by the name of David Katz.

I was very passionate about systematic trading early in my career but not granted many opportunities to explore this professionally back then. So, I focused on researching and building my own systematic trading strategies and taught myself to program. I was hungry for feedback and started asking around in my network. A mutual acquaintance introduced me to Dave and after some haggling, he agreed to meet for a coffee. This was the beginning of a great working relationship. Ultimately, he ended up becoming my boss and mentor. Dave has a uniquely powerful combination of “book smarts,” “street smarts” and a good heart. This is rare in the world, let alone the hedge fund industry.

If I may, another person who really helped me was a former senior colleague, Matthew Williams, who really fostered my interest in systematic trading and convinced me to learn how to program. It was really useful sitting next to him — anytime I had a new idea, he would say, “well, if that is what you think, test it on some data.” He had a level of rigour that other colleagues didn’t. He also led by example as someone who had really thought through life and separated the “signal” from the “noise” by focusing on what was most important to him in life.

Both Dave and Matt have been very formative and positive influences on me and I am grateful to have had the opportunity to meet them.

What is the best way for our readers to continue to follow your work online?

You can find me on LinkedIn, check out my author page at SSRN, or follow me on Substack, Medium, Twitter or Instagram.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent on this. We wish you only continued success.

About The Interviewer: Maria Angelova, MBA is a disruptor, author, motivational speaker, body-mind expert, Pilates teacher, and founder and CEO of Rebellious Intl. As a disruptor, Maria is on a mission to change the face of the wellness industry by shifting the self-care mindset for consumers and providers alike. As a mind-body coach, Maria’s superpower is alignment which helps clients create a strong body and a calm mind so they can live a life of freedom, happiness, and fulfillment. Prior to founding Rebellious Intl, Maria was a Finance Director and a professional with 17+ years of progressive corporate experience in the Telecommunications, Finance, and Insurance industries. Born in Bulgaria, Maria moved to the United States in 1992. She graduated summa cum laude from both Georgia State University (MBA, Finance) and the University of Georgia (BBA, Finance). Maria’s favorite job is being a mom. Maria enjoys learning, coaching, creating authentic connections, working out, Latin dancing, traveling, and spending time with her tribe. To contact Maria, email her at angelova@rebellious-intl.com. To schedule a free consultation, click here.