Top Lawyers: Ann Marie Murzin On The 5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law

An Interview With Chere Estrin

Use a Positivity Filter. Not a filter on your phone — by accepting information from others from a place of gratefulness for their sharing information with me rather than feeling attacked or critiqued. Once I overheard an exchange between a grandmother and her grandson where he shared a certificate from his teacher: “Look, look,” he said waving a green card stock paper with Award written in script, “I got “Most Improved” this week!” The grandmother responded, “Oh, really, is that because you stunk last week, now you get an award?” Well-intentioned comments, albeit truthful, can have the effect of taking the wind out of people’s sails.

The legal field is known to be extremely competitive. Lawyers are often smart, ambitious, and highly educated. That being said, what does it take to stand out and become a “Top Lawyer” in your specific field of law? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law”, we are talking to top lawyers who share what it takes to excel and stand out in your industry.

As a part of this interview series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ann-Marie Murzin.

Ann-Marie is an experienced estate planning attorney who knows first-hand how fast life can change. After falling unconscious from a sudden allergic reaction, she had a wakeup call to help clients through estate planning. A former litigator, Ann-Marie now counsels clients about how estate planning can help protect their families, and also advises small business owners about how to save money through business contingency, and business succession planning. In addition to her successful legal career, Ann-Marie is a published poet whose work connects the dots with images from experiences as a single parent with her two now grown children: a daughter (BMEN, University of South Carolina); and son (Gabelli Business School, Fordham University).

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dig in, our readers would love to get to know you a bit more. What is the “backstory” that brought you to this particular career path in Law? Did you want to be an attorney “when you grew up”?

My Dad said I could be a lawyer or a nun … so there’s that hahaha. However, seriously, upon graduation from law school I moved to Manhattan from upstate New York, and worked for a large law firm specializing in legal malpractice (case within a case litigation), and other complex litigation cases. Currently, after a near-death experience, I changed practice areas from litigation to estate planning to serve families with children, and small business owners. Now rather than creating conflict with litigation, or courtroom drama, I work with clients to avoid improve communication between loved ones and within senior business leadership teams through legal planning.

Can you tell us a bit about the nature of your practice and what you focus on?

My estate planning piece of my practice includes serving blended families with children, or those less traditional families that include unmarried, or non-blood loved ones who are good friends or partners in life. On the business side of legal planning, I counsel clients on the legal steps necessary to allow their business to run seamlessly even through unfortunate events such as temporary incapacitation, being blocked from travel abroad due to Covid, or other logistical reasons preventing them from operating their business as usual.

You are a successful attorney. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? What unique qualities do you have that others may not? Can you please share a story or example for each?

First., I may smile and laugh more than most lawyers … however, let’ s see three traits: being driven to make a positive difference in the world; feeling sincere empathy; and openness to learn from others. Here is what I mean:

Driven: Fortunately, I have been able to find a practice area that resonates with me. My practice area is like a lens through which I view life that drives me to relate popular culture and current events to estate and business planning. With that approach, I feel comfortable talking about my chosen practice area and stories flow naturally in blogs and during client conversations. However, none of that would happen if I was not driven to serve clients to make a positive impact in their lives.

Empathy: Life is messy sometimes, and as attorneys we often do not see people at their best. I talk with people who have family conflicts that they honestly want to resolve but haven’t been able to, adult children with one parent challenged with dementia, and the other having no access to their financial accounts, parents wanting to plan for special needs children if anything happens to them, adult children suffering from addiction issues, and successful small business owners immigrated here without family members who want to develop an emergency contingency plan to keep their business running as the sole provider for their family. I empathize with these complex life situations people find themselves in, and I feel honored to use the law as a tool to propose solutions to their problems. Empathy has been rewarded through my client experiences — — but also it has helped me grow as a person and has made my legal career more rewarding as a result.

Learning: My love of learning also causes me to be open to suggestions from my colleagues, and even learn from my clients. For example, I was meeting with one married couple in an initial consultation where the husband was extremely resistant to estate planning a concept. As a former restaurant owner, he experienced the risk of living paycheck to paycheck, and had to carry debt, so in his mind, whatever happened to him, happened, and he was prepared to deal with it at the time that the risk of not planning. I remember explaining to him in my best lawyer voice why estate planning was important, which I had said many times before in consults, to webinars, and live presentations. However, this man was also a veteran, and he re-phased my point in a better way than I ever could have: “So what you’re saying is that you help create a battle plan in case anything happens to us.” Perfect! Openness to learning from others — even learning from my clients has helped me become a successful attorney.

Do you think you have had luck in your success? Can you explain what you mean?

Yes, I have been lucky. When I set my mind to look for sea glass or four leaf clovers, I find them. Somehow things seem to for out for me, and I am so grateful. If there is a filing deadline, I am able to meet it, a bureaucratic glitch, I solve it. Whether you believe in God, guardian angels, a higher power, the universe, or just Karma, know that is real — — and so much more than just luck. I am very grateful for the blessings bestowed upon me, and live my life trying to pay those graces forward.

Do you think where you went to school has any bearing on your success? How important is it for a lawyer to go to a top-tier school?

Actually, yes, in a way. Usually top-tier schools devote substantial of resources to their career services office, and pride themselves on attorney placement. However, whether or not the law school is a top-tiered, a student would benefit by taking some time to investigate, and confirm the extent of its career services resources, and the reach of its alumni network. My law school’s career services office held several weeks of campus-initiated interviews which saved a lot of time and effort, and ultimately, an alumni connection is I how I landed my first job.

Based on the lessons you have learned from your experience, if you could go back in time and speak to your twenty-year-old self, what would you say? Would you do anything differently?

Hmmmm that’s a tough one. I would say don’t worry as much — — a lawyer-mentor once said, “Nothing is as bad as it seems at the time.” And also, eat more vegetables. Post pandemic, I lean to veganism, or at least pescatarian, and never felt better!

This is not easy work. What is your primary motivation and drive behind the work that you do?

It is rewarding to be present for the moment when clients obtain clarity about their life, their work, and their death, and to experience the relief when their legal planning is complete.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?

One project I am working on now is estate planning for a married couple, with a spouse with children from a prior marriage (some grown, some minors), who are also running successful small business that experienced major growth during the pandemic. We are working on ways to protect the business through corporate contingency planning, business succession planning, and also estate planning tools to protect their loved ones and their assets. And if that is not all exciting enough, this wonderful couple is also planning a charitable foundation to share some of their success with those less fortunate!

Where do you go from here? Where do you aim to be in the next chapter of your career?

Good question. I plan to continue my education by completing my Masters, and train a team of paralegals and associates to support my efforts serving families and small business owners through legal planning. I also am in the process of fine-tuning systems to accomplish my goal of having a balanced life along with my successful career — which is something I am saying in this interview to ensure accountability!

Without sharing anything confidential, can you please share your most successful “war story”? Can you share the funniest?

Once clients were so grateful for care I took preparing their customized estate plan that they wanted to gift me one of their family cemetery plots because they felt as if I was like family sharing moments with them through the estate planning process. Awkward … however, so heartfelt!

Ok, fantastic. Let’s now shift to discussing some advice for aspiring lawyers. Do you work remotely? Onsite? Or Hybrid? What do you think will be the future of how law offices operate? What do you prefer? Can you please explain what you mean?

Well, who doesn’t love reading and writing in their pajamas? However, there is no comparison to an in-person meeting where you can get to know people, or read the room much more effectively. However, as long as the quality of work product, attention to detail, confidentiality, and security issues are all addressed, and modified for various situations, becoming “law-office flexible” whatever that means for legal professionals and staff would be ideal.

How has the legal world changed since COVID? How do you think it might change in the near future? Can you explain what you mean?

Ultimately, Covid has helped us as attorneys and our staff become more flexible. This push to be fluid, more open-minded, and less judgmental of peoples’ choices, values, and where and how they feel more effective working, is well needed progress in law. In my first big firm job, associates needed to be present in the office, and there was a push to make “face time” appearances with partners before there even was a Facetime app. As a result of the pandemic, not only are we are becoming more flexible in our work location approach, we also have a broader impact by hosting client meetings and signings virtually, arranging home visits versus forcing physically challenged clients to trek to the office, and attending networking meetings virtually — some even with a global reach, which was not a common experience pre-pandemic.

We often hear about the importance of networking and getting referrals. Is this still true today? Has the nature of networking changed or has its importance changed? Can you explain what you mean?

Yes, the greatest compliment one person can give to anther is a referral. Networking is also still important way to learn about other’s businesses, what is important to them outside of the office, learn more about their loved ones, and establish trust, so they feel comfortable referring potential clients to you. Ultimately, what goes around comes around, and if you do good legal work — — the word will get out. And, if you give referrals to others that you trust and value, those efforts will be rewarded.

Based on your experience, how can attorneys effectively leverage social media to build their practice?

Engaging in social media is not as easy for attorneys especially for estate planning attorneys because people need to be ready to have a conversation around end-of-life decisions or incapacitation rather than being prompted by a post or a blog to take action. Also, as attorneys we need to be mindful of the legal advertising rules and ethical practices of what we say and the images we share. That being said, potential clients seem to find testimonials or positive reviews helpful and posting in social media about nominations for client-driven awards.

Excellent. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law?” Please share a story or an example for each.

1. Avoid becoming a hermit. Pre-covid, after a long week of intense drafting, I emerged from my office smiling grateful to be done with a huge complex estate plan. I asked, “Soooooo, what did I miss? How is everyone doing?” Thankfully, I was met with smiles. It turned the tooth fairy came to one young Dad’s daughter; a colleague recounted how they tripped and fell in the parking lot, papers flying, and we laughed because someone’s in-laws were in town for the week. While we were catching up, our local florist delivered two bouquets of flowers to a single attorney from two different suitors. All of this may seem inconsequential — however, is it? Sitting alone at your computer, or endlessly studying the law, is unlikely to lead to success. Spending time developing relationships connects us, builds trust, and will likely cause people to relate to you more which ultimately leads to more legal referrals. And, I promise you will feel better, too. To be a top lawyer in your field: consider engaging another human, who is not an attorney.
2. Use a Positivity Filter. Not a filter on your phone — by accepting information from others from a place of gratefulness for their sharing information with me rather than feeling attacked or critiqued. Once I overheard an exchange between a grandmother and her grandson where he shared a certificate from his teacher: “Look, look,” he said waving a green card stock paper with Award written in script, “I got “Most Improved” this week!” The grandmother responded, “Oh, really, is that because you stunk last week, now you get an award?” Well-intentioned comments, albeit truthful, can have the effect of taking the wind out of people’s sails. As attorneys we are often quick with witty remarks laced with sarcasm which often need to be walked back. At that point, the listener may shut down, and your legal representation could be in a rocky place. So, to be a top lawyer in your field, consider reflecting back information you receive from clients from a place of truthful positivity.
3. You can never have too many friends. Recently, I was shocked as a began filling out an application that required six (6) references from non-family members that have known at least ten (10) years. However, I came up with a list of twelve (12) people, double what I needed. And, all of those people texted me back immediately upon my request. You also never know when you may need to lean on your support network in a more formal way using them as references or confirmation of employment in written court applications, or for business purposes in a corporate setting. So, to become a top attorney in your field, stay in contact with people from early in your career, even as you move on to a different roles, change firms, or move to a different part of the country — — because you are likely to need their reference later when you least expect!
4. Explain legal relevance. An oral argument I witnessed once still makes me smile: A younger attorney took the plaintiff’s table laying out his motion papers in neat piles, arranging his yellow legal pad, and aligning his pen and highlighter as if it was a table setting. Then a white-haired attorney in a wrinkled brown suit burst into the courtroom, sized up opposing counsel, and nodded to the Judge he was ready. The younger attorney briefly summarized the facts straight out of a moot court competition, referencing cases with exact page numbers and citations. He concluded citing a 1960s case, “Your Honor, based upon this case alone, the Court must grant plaintiff’s motion.” We were all extremely impressed, and so was the Judge. The older counsel rose smiling. He said, “Well, your honor, I have to admit I am not familiar with that case because I missed most of the 60s ….” The entire courtroom exploded with laughter. The experienced attorney explained why this 1960 precedent was no longer relevant in our modern world … ironic for sure coming from the older attorney. To be a top attorney conduct research and argue why the law is still relevant. Also, a little humor also goes a long way!
5. Ride the waves. My Dad and I spent a lot of time fishing together on Lake Ontario — — in fact I drove a motorboat before a car. Sometimes he would use these fishing trips to give me life advice. What better time to capture the attention of child when you’re alone on a boat in the middle of a lake and the fish aren’t biting! He would share times when he felt like quitting, or stories of co-workers who made his work more difficult. However, then he would also explain why he kept riding the waves to see how things played out. There is a lot of truth to his point. As attorneys, we are “practicing” law, and in the beginning of our careers, there is more practicing then lawyering. So my advice is that if you lose a case, if your colleague is not ideal, or you hit a dry spell with business development, stick it out the best you can, and ride the waves. Whether the fish are biting or not, you’ll still be able to tell the story about the one that got away.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might see this.

No question: Pete Davidson. His comedic vulnerability makes awkward situations so funny. I would thank him for putting his story out there about his Dad passing away during 9/11 and fundraising efforts. Also, his PSA sharing about mental illness helped to normalize the conversation around seeking help. Over all, poking fun at himself is a legacy that has already made a positive impact during his lifetime which is impressive. And, of course, I really wish I could make people laugh as easily as he does — — I’ll keep working on that, but in the meantime a ride on the Staten Island Ferry with him, or a shout out re: importance of estate planning, or both would be amazing.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!