Top Lawyers: Deborah Goldstock Ringel On The 5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law

An Interview with Eric L. Pines

Be kind and respectful. The government contracts community is small. Your peers in the industry may be your competitors one day, your teaming partner the next, and your client after that. Creating a respectful, inclusive environment will not only benefit you and your client, but it creates a more compelling and welcoming environment for the next generation of leaders.

The legal field is known to be extremely competitive. Lawyers are often smart, ambitious, and highly educated. That being said, what does it take to stand out and become a “Top Lawyer” in your specific field of law? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law”, we are talking to top lawyers who share what it takes to excel and stand out in your industry.

As a part of this interview series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Deborah.

Deborah is AFS’ General Counsel, Secretary, and Chief Compliance Officer, directing all legal services for the company. Deborah also serves as the legal advisor to our company’s board.

She’s an expert in her field on contracting issues related to the U.S. federal government, including defense, intelligence, public safety, health and civilian legal matters. Deborah would be happy to answer your questions via email on what it takes to stand out as a Top Lawyer in the U.S. federal sector.

What is the “backstory” that brought you to your career path in Law? Did you want to be an attorney “when you grew up”?

I did. Lawyers played a pivotal role in the real-life and fictional stories I loved. From Thurgood Marshall and Ruth Bader Ginsburg to Atticus Finch and Perry Mason, lawyers stood up for the truth, demonstrated integrity, shined a spotlight on injustice, and achieved victories for individuals and the common good.

Can you tell us a bit about the nature of your practice and what you focus on?

As the General Counsel and Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer for Accenture Federal Services, I focus on ensuring that our business understands and meets our obligations as a federal government contractor and lives up to our core values as a company. In practice, that looks like applying existing rules to new technologies, applying new rules to existing systems, supporting delivery obligations, and creating a culture of integrity where all our people can do their best work.

You are a successful attorney. What 3 characteristics do you think are most instrumental to your success? What unique qualities do you have that others may not? Can you please share a story or example for each?

• Passion for learning — My tagline on busy days is, “I’m never bored!” As a prosecutor, law firm litigator, and now as in-house counsel, I address different and new subject matters regularly. I’m energized by learning something new and understanding its impact on our company, clients, and communities. This is particularly valuable at Accenture Federal Services where we provide innovative and transformative solutions for our clients’ biggest challenges. Having a mindset where I embrace learning helps ensure that my legal advice is relevant and agile.
• Empathy –Lawyers are frequently called upon to find solutions, and the starting place is really understanding your clients and their needs. Beginning from a place of empathy and curiosity creates trust and the right environment for those conversations. The same empathy is critical to building a team and working collaboratively with others. Some may dismissively refer to empathy as a “soft” skill unlike traditional analysis or advocacy, but I’ve experienced how empathy makes lawyers better at all parts of their roles.
• Sound Judgment — Serving as in-house counsel requires sound judgment. Even in a heavily regulated environment, all lawyers know what it’s like to be in the gray area, and we’ve probably all said, “there has to be case law on this point” at one time or another. Sound judgment helps you navigate when there may be no clear answers. A track record of demonstrating sound judgment helps to establish trust and credibility and enables effective partnerships with your clients and others.

Do you think you have had luck in your success? Can you explain what you mean?

I was tremendously lucky to be born into a family in which it was assumed that I would pursue an education and a career. I am also lucky to have encountered setbacks and challenges, which gave me an opportunity to build internal resilience as well as empathy for others. Luck can be both having a job opportunity at the right time — or not getting that job and having the next opportunity be even better. Acknowledging the existence of luck doesn’t negate one’s hard work or intentionality in achieving success. It’s also important to recognize that hard work and intentionality are never the whole story.

Do you think where you went to school has any bearing on your success? How important is it for a lawyer to go to a top-tier school?

I am incredibly grateful for the schools I attended and rely on the education that I received daily, which includes classroom education, opportunities for exploration and growth, and dear friends who remain sources of strength and laughter today.

That said, as more law schools withdraw from conventional rankings, there’s a growing recognition that rankings don’t fully reflect the quality of education and opportunity that a student receives. A school with a part-time program, a school where you graduate without debt, a school that allows you to be near family or continue employment, or a school with a robust program in a particular field can make that school the right one for you. As a prospective employee, I recommend sharing the full story to your prospective employer about what made your school the right choice for you, and how you fully leveraged the opportunities the school presented.

Based on the lessons you have learned from your experience, if you could go back in time and speak to your twenty-year-old self, what would you say? Would you do anything differently?

Approach life and the challenges you face with empathy, curiosity, and courage. As a litigator, I was always at my best and most prepared when I not only considered facts through my clients’ eyes, but also from the perspective of the opposing party, witnesses, and the court. Empathy and curiosity also help develop candor, trust, and inclusivity among your teams, partners, and clients.

This is not easy work. What is your primary motivation and drive behind the work that you do?

I am deeply proud of my company and the valuable work we do. Through our work with the federal government, we impact the daily lives of so many — from families to students, refugees, to active-duty service members and veterans, to refugees. My work helps ensure that we are a trusted and responsible resource to our clients, allowing us to bring innovative transformational solutions to improve people’s lives and keep the country safe. Internally, it’s an imperative that we create a culture of integrity and inclusion where our people feel that they can do their best work. Helping establish that culture and being a trusted counselor for my team and our people is incredibly rewarding.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?

It was exciting to oversee Accenture Federal Services’ acquisition of Novetta, the largest acquisition in our company’s history. The acquisition brought together the complementary talents of Novetta’s 1,300 employees and today we are more than 13,000 people that deliver solutions that accelerate our ability to make our clients more innovative, agile, and secure. I’m also working with Accenture’s Legal Access program to empower my team with opportunities to provide pro bono legal services. Most recently, in December, I worked with a law firm partner, a resettlement agency, and over 20 volunteers to help Afghan refugees advance their asylum petitions. It was incredibly rewarding work and will continue to be a focus in the new year.

Where do you go from here? Where do you aim to be in the next chapter of your career?

I’m never bored, and every day brings something new. My first day as Accenture Federal Services’ General Counsel was March 1, 2020. Within weeks, we were navigating the pandemic and its impacts on our workforce and facilities. The curveballs aren’t always that dramatic, but it’s a great example of how a “new chapter” can come to you. I’ve had the opportunity to grow with my company and look forward to addressing whatever unexpected challenges are next.

Without sharing anything confidential, can you please share your most successful “war story”? Can you share the funniest?

Earlier in my leadership career, I took an emotional intelligence self-assessment, and scored shockingly (to me) low. In the scoring rubric, I saw that while I was seeking to create meaningful connections with others, I was not being vulnerable in how I engaged with others. In essence, I was listening but not sharing my personal experiences, feelings, and internal struggles. Leading an Ethics & Compliance program can feel dry and rules-oriented, so it’s important to create a culture where people feel comfortable sharing their inputs, speaking up, and doing the right thing. To be effective, I realized that I must be willing to model vulnerability and strengthen relationships by both listening and actively sharing. Watching my teammates and colleagues pay it forward and lead their own teams with empathy and courage is incredibly rewarding.

Let’s now shift to discussing some advice for aspiring lawyers. Do you work remotely? Onsite? Or Hybrid? What do you think will be the future of how law offices operate? What do you prefer? Can you please explain what you mean?

I’m hybrid now. I’ve certainly appreciated the flexibility to work from home, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been brought into an important issue because someone walked by my office at the company headquarters and said, “Hey, there’s something I’ve been meaning to ask you.” Remote work requires a different type of intentionality and vigilance.

How has the legal world changed since COVID? How do you think it might change going forward? Can you explain what you mean?

The pandemic was a challenge for all. Lawyers, in particular were called upon to counsel clients in an unprecedented and rapidly changing environment. As the pandemic continued, we had to help our clients navigate new regulations and requirements which ultimately made us more agile and engaged with our people.

But COVID hasn’t been the only change. We’ve seen tremendous change in the legal community as a result of the simultaneous racial reckoning following the George Floyd killing. At a time when we were physically far apart and dealing with health and safety concerns, we had to also find ways to have difficult, intimate conversations, and increase diversity and inclusion across our profession, industries, and communities. As our pandemic environment normalizes, we must continue our obligation to make our profession more accessible, equitable, and inclusive.

Based on your experience, how can attorneys effectively leverage social media to build their practice?

In my experience, social media is an effective tool to enable listening and amplifying voices from people you know and admire. As importantly, it can help you avoid falling into an echo chamber by finding people who disagree with you and offer different perspectives. Used respectfully, lawyers can leverage social media to reach different audiences by developing more thoughtful points of view and more nuanced perspectives.

Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need to Become a Top Lawyer in Your Specific Field of Law?” Please share a story or an example for each.

1. Have a long-term view. Federal contracts can be long, and it’s not unusual for unexpected issues to arise. It’s crucial to develop relationships of trust with clients and ensure that your guidance is unconditionally constructive and collaborative. This wouldn’t be the right field for an attorney who likes to showboat or go for a short-term win.
2. Read and listen! The rules applying to federal contractors are vast, from procurement integrity to cybersecurity, to cost and pricing, to trade compliance, to business ethics. Luckily, these rules are also accessible. From the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) to USDOJ guidelines for an effective Ethics & Compliance program, the rules are written, available, and knowable. There are also many opportunities to hear key government stakeholders speak about their priorities and plans.
3. Have a strong commitment to doing the right thing. There are a lot of regulatory agencies with an interest in ensuring that federal contractors are responsible and ethical. Ensuring that your Ethics & Compliance program is strong, based on a culture of integrity, and responsive to changes in the internal and external environments will mitigate risk and enhance business success.
4. Understand what makes your business successful. Speaking the same language as your clients — and their clients — is crucial.
5. Be kind and respectful. The government contracts community is small. Your peers in the industry may be your competitors one day, your teaming partner the next, and your client after that. Creating a respectful, inclusive environment will not only benefit you and your client, but it creates a more compelling and welcoming environment for the next generation of leaders.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might see this.

Nina Totenberg. Her professionalism and subject matter expertise combines with an authentic and personal voice, making complex subjects accessible without glossing over the hard parts. I admire her ability to analyze and communicate effectively, conveying respect for the subject, her listeners, and herself. Plus, my book club — made up of women who have been close friends for over 30 years — is reading, “Dinners with Ruth: A Memoir on the Power of Friendship” for January, so I would have loved to have spoken with Ruth Bader Ginsburg about her remarkable journey.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!

About the Interviewer: Eric L. Pines is a nationally recognized federal employment lawyer, mediator, and attorney business coach. He represents federal employees and acts as in-house counsel for over fifty thousand federal employees through his work as a federal employee labor union representative. A formal federal employee himself, Mr. Pines began his federal employment law career as in-house counsel for AFGE Local 1923 which is in Social Security Administration’s headquarters and is the largest federal union local in the world. He presently serves as AFGE 1923’s Chief Counsel as well as in-house counsel for all FEMA bargaining unit employees and numerous Department of Defense and Veteran Affairs unions.

While he and his firm specialize in representing federal employees from all federal agencies and in reference to virtually all federal employee matters, his firm has placed special attention on representing Veteran Affairs doctors and nurses hired under the authority of Title. He and his firm have a particular passion in representing disabled federal employees with their requests for medical and religious reasonable accommodations when those accommodations are warranted under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (ADA). He also represents them with their requests for Federal Employee Disability Retirement (OPM) when an accommodation would not be possible.

Mr. Pines has also served as a mediator for numerous federal agencies including serving a year as the Library of Congress’ in-house EEO Mediator. He has also served as an expert witness in federal court for federal employee matters. He has also worked as an EEO technical writer drafting hundreds of Final Agency Decisions for the federal sector.

Mr. Pines’ firm is headquartered in Houston, Texas and has offices in Baltimore, Maryland and Atlanta, Georgia. His first passion is his wife and five children. He plays classical and rock guitar and enjoys playing ice hockey, running, and biking. Please visit his websites at www.pinesfederal.com and www.toughinjurylawyers.com. He can also be reached at eric@pinesfederal.com.