Top Lawyers: Joshua C Black On The 5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law

An Interview With Chere Estrin

Ability to Think on Your Feet. Some careers allow a lot of time for reflection and contemplation, employment law is not one of those careers! When practicing law, you are often required to think on your feet, you must be ready to pivot and adjust in real time as new arguments or facts are thrown at you from the opposing party. You win or lose a legal case in the minutia; the tiniest little victories or failures can turn an entire case. Being able to roll with changes and being comfortable enough to “steer into the skid” are critically important when proceedings take an unexpected turn — and believe me they always will. If you want to be an employment lawyer, you are going to have to get comfortable with thinking on your feet.

The legal field is known to be extremely competitive. Lawyers are often smart, ambitious, and highly educated. That being said, what does it take to stand out and become a “Top Lawyer” in your specific field of law? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law”, we are talking to top lawyers who share what it takes to excel and stand out in your industry.

As a part of this interview series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Joshua C. Black.

Joshua is an Arizona employment attorney dedicated to helping employees fight discrimination and mistreatment in the workplace. As the Managing Attorney at the Law Office of Joshua Black PLC, Joshua advocates for his clients inside and outside the courtroom and is known in the Phoenix community for his reoccurring guest appearances as a legal commentator on the nightly news.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dig in, our readers would love to get to know you a bit more. What is the “backstory” that brought you to this particular career path in Law? Did you want to be an attorney “when you grew up”?

From a young age, I loved learning and reading. But it never occurred to me that being an attorney could be my career path — until I took a constitutional law class in undergrad! In that class I realized that a career in law could provide the intellectual stimulation, sense of purpose, and earning potential I was looking for in a long-term occupation. I entered law school with no preconceived notions of what type of attorney I wanted to be, but as the years passed and my experience grew so did my passion for working with employees who have been wrongfully terminated or discriminated against in the workplace. This passion ultimately led me to my current practice.

Can you tell us a bit about the nature of your practice and what you focus on?

I am the Founder and Managing Attorney of the Law Office of Joshua Black PLC, a boutique law firm in Phoenix, Arizona. Our practice is focused on helping employees fight illegal mistreatment in the workplace. We represent employees in workplace conflicts related to discrimination, sexual harassment, wrongful termination, and wage disputes. Our goal is to ensure that all are respected and treated fairly in the workplace regardless of race, gender, religion, or other individual status. I’ve seen many people whose voices go unheard by employers; they’re victims of unfair treatment at work and feel trapped with a job that doesn’t value them as individual human beings. We work to bring solutions to disputes like these and provide education on employee rights and employer best practices for building an inclusive workplace.

You are a successful attorney. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? What unique qualities do you have that others may not? Can you please share a story or example for each?

The way I see it, there are many roadmaps to success. Whether you’re propelled forward by an inherent determination, or you work hard to adapt positive habits and self-discipline, I believe that character plays a big part in an individual’s success. For me personally — the character traits that have been the most instrumental to my success would have to be persistence, determination, and faith.

Persistence. The law requires persistence. From day one of law school through your very last case as an attorney you will, without a doubt, be required to have a great deal of persistence if you want to move the needle in the legal world. An attorney is tasked with perseverance and persistence when all others give up on a claim, case, or client. Persistence is required to succeed in law and the more you have of it the farther you will go.

Determination. You must be determined in the legal field. As an attorney, you must ensure that nothing gets between your client and their opportunity for justice; this includes being resolute with good arguments, willing to stand by them whenever necessary — and never giving up! There are many moving parts to a legal case and often most of those parts are outside your direct control. Having the determination to continue forward despite the obstacles and roadblocks is critical to success as a lawyer.

Faith. As an attorney you must be confident in your decisions and have faith in yourself, your knowledge, your preparedness, and your skill. You also must have faith in the system and believe that justice can prevail and that the work you are doing is advancing that goal.

Do you think you have had luck in your success? Can you explain what you mean?

I tend to agree with the old sentiment that “the harder I work the more luck I seem to have.” I am not so bold as to say that I have made it where I am today on my own, rather to the contrary — I attribute all my successes and opportunities for growth to those around me. My feeling on luck is that there are plenty of opportunities out there for all, but you have to make the right moves. The more positive energy and disruption I bring into my life the more positive opportunities seem to come my way. One of the keys to my success has been working with a strong team who are ready and willing to take hold of any opportunities that life presents.

Do you think where you went to school has any bearing on your success? How important is it for a lawyer to go to a top-tier school?

In my experience where you went to school has far less to do with your potential success as a lawyer than who you are as an advocate. Law school is a great opportunity to develop the skills you need for success in law. If you pay attention and work hard you can equip yourself with the skills and knowledge you need to be a great lawyer, regardless of where you go to school. In my experience some of the best lawyers come from very unassuming schools.

Based on the lessons you have learned from your experience, if you could go back in time and speak to your twenty-year-old self, what would you say? Would you do anything differently?

As we grow up our perspectives change. We start seeing things from different angles which helps us develop an improved understanding of ourselves and the world around us. If I could go back and talk to my twenty-year-old self now, I would tell him that it’s okay to grow and change, that a different perspective is a valuable perspective, and I would thank him for betting on me. I would also tell him to dream bigger, as life has shown me that if I can dream it I can do it.

This is not easy work. What is your primary motivation and drive behind the work that you do?

I have a deep-seated desire not to let my clients down. As an attorney you are depended on to protect your clients and provide them a voice. My motivation and drive are the product of high standards that I keep for myself and my ever-present desire to do the absolute best work I can for my clients. My motivation in every case is to be able to tell a client I gave my absolute best effort.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?

Our cases focus on civil rights abuses in the workplace, so we see lots of shocking mistreatment and a general lack of education around what rights the law affords employees while at work. One exciting project I have been working on is making news appearances as a guest legal commentator to discuss and provide commentary on important legal rulings affecting the workplace. This has been an exciting opportunity to bring knowledge and insight to the greater community about what is — and what is not — permissible in the workplace. Over the past year this has largely focused on employee rights in the wake of COVID-19 vaccine mandates and educating newly unemployed workers on protections and rights available to them through the unemployment system.

Where do you go from here? Where do you aim to be in the next chapter of your career?

Right now the firm is right where we want it to be — providing legal assistance to those who are being mistreated in the workplace. We are open to growth in positive directions that would allow us to use our platform to further assist mistreated people groups. Our drive is to ensure that we support the advancement of civil rights in the American workplace and beyond, and we are open and excited to see how our unique skillset can continue to support these values in the workplace and beyond.

Without sharing anything confidential, can you please share your most successful “war story”? Can you share the funniest?

We are always working with clients to bring about the most positive resolution possible in any particular matter. A recent client success story revolves around a federal employee who was removed from her job due to discrimination based on her disability. After a two-year legal battle she has been returned to her job and her employer has been ordered to repay her two years of lost wages (among other damages). Restoring dignity — and financial fairness — to an employee who was mistreated due to a disability is the type of work we feel proud to be a part of.

Ok, fantastic. Let’s now shift to discussing some advice for aspiring lawyers. Do you work remotely? Onsite? Or Hybrid? What do you think will be the future of how law offices operate? What do you prefer? Can you please explain what you mean?

I work out of a physical office and a home office, both of which I prefer for different reasons. Our practice has shifted virtual during the COVID-19 pandemic and we have drastically reduced the number of in-person visits we conduct. Using technology like Zoom, we meet virtually with many clients and even attend court virtually for some hearings. I think this will continue in the future, at least when it comes to how we interact with clients. We stopped having client bring in physical documents years ago and maintain all documentation digitally now. As a lawyer, we use technology for research but also to connect with our clients and the courts. I think it would be naive to believe that the continuing digitization of our society won’t continue to affect change in the legal field. It will be a long time before the legal process is completely digital, but the hybridization of the industry is already well underway. Aspiring lawyers should be aware of technological advances and how those advances can be used to their advantage as a member of the future legal system.

How has the legal world changed since COVID? How do you think it might change in the near future? Can you explain what you mean?

The legal field has seen an unprecedented shift towards an online delivery of services. During the pandemic many courts have been closed to “in-person” hearings and trials and instead has shifted towards virtual appearances via videoconferencing technology such as Zoom or Microsoft Teams. This has presented both challenges and benefits to the legal community with an overall positive impact as it has allowed greater ability to quarantine and avoid unnecessary exposure to health risks, and has also made it easier to attend court proceedings, removing the need for fighting traffic and downtown parking. While many courts seem anxious to get back to the old way of doing things, my expectation is that we will continue to see greater flexibility with “in-person” appearances than we have seen pre-pandemic.

We often hear about the importance of networking and getting referrals. Is this still true today? Has the nature of networking changed or has its importance changed? Can you explain what you mean?

I remember hearing about the importance of “networking” when I was in law school, and from what I gathered legal networking was essentially like speed dating other professionals… you go to an event and trade as many business cards as possible to grow your network… That may work for some, but that type of networking never really felt comfortable, or beneficial, to me. When I think about networking, I think of building relationships with a few, pivotal people, that can be there to support one another. I am an employment attorney, so obviously my network is going to be aware of that and send me referrals because of that, but that is not the purpose of networking as I see it, it’s a byproduct. The purpose is to find a group of people who are interested in your success — and you in theirs. Having those relationships will lead to opportunities in your business.

Based on your experience, how can attorneys effectively leverage social media to build their practice?

Social media is where people connect today. Being present on social media means being present where your audience lives, works, and socializes. I think it will continue to grow in importance for lawyers to have a social media presence to stay competitive. Being able to connect with people who you would not otherwise meet in person is an excellent way to build the reach of your brand and build your practice. Attorneys should be aware of and maintain a proficiency in popular social media platforms.

Excellent. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law?” Please share a story or an example for each.

1. Empathy. One of the most important characteristics a Plaintiff’s employment attorney can have is empathy. If you want to be a top lawyer in employment law it is of paramount importance that you have the ability to understand the mental and emotional state of those around you. Understanding both the spoken — and unspoken — concerns and motivators of the parties to a dispute goes a long way towards finding a resolution. Empathy allows you to step into your clients’ shoes and better relate to their specific pain points. The more you understand about what your client wants and needs the better you can provide it. When you are truly doing this well you will be anticipating needs and providing solutions before your client even knows to ask for them.
2. Creativity. No two cases are exactly alike, and as a result there is often not a “one size fits all” solution when it comes to resolving employment related legal matters. Thinking creatively about how to approach dispute resolution can lead to outcomes that benefit all parties allowing stakeholders from both sides of the dispute to feel like their voices were heard and justice was rendered regardless of who technically prevails in the process. Creativity is finding a way to have both parties walk away feeling victorious.
3. Thick Skin. As an employment attorney, you are tasked with resolving conflicts that have a major impact on your clients’ lives and can potentially result in negative financial impacts for both parties involved. Emotions often run high when there is discrimination or other serious mistreatment at play; especially because it affects people’s livelihoods so directly. Attorneys often get caught in the crosshairs of these heightened emotions and it is important to be able to recognize and process these scenarios without feeling personally attacked. Most people don’t hire an employment attorney because their work life is going well; by the very nature of the job, we step in when disputes reach their boiling point and the parties can no longer work together, it can only be expected that things may get a little uncivil. Understanding the heightened emotions and what’s at stake for each party involved helps to put discourteous or otherwise inappropriate conduct in perspective, but regardless of how enlightened your perspective is, you are going to need a thick skin in this line of work.
4. Belief in the Cause. Fighting for a living can be exhausting. As an employment attorney you are surrounded by conflict daily. Truly believing in what you do makes it all worth it. Fighting against discrimination and mistreatment in the workplace I see the worst out there, but I also see progress and change happening. Being part of that process and advancing a cause you believe in makes the work seem a little less like work. Seeing clients’ lives transform before you is a rewarding and humbling experience and renews your energy to continue the “good fight.” There are certainly other areas of law that are more lucrative, and if money is your primary motivator, you can make more money elsewhere with a lot less suffering. Commiserating with clients when they are at their lowest and being that shoulder to lean on takes a mental toll, and it is hard on you as a lawyer. You can’t help but feel your clients’ suffering and despair. Knowing that you are here to put a stop to the root of those feelings is a huge responsibility and would likely be too much to bear if you didn’t truly believe in the work you were doing.
5. Ability to Think on Your Feet. Some careers allow a lot of time for reflection and contemplation, employment law is not one of those careers! When practicing law, you are often required to think on your feet, you must be ready to pivot and adjust in real time as new arguments or facts are thrown at you from the opposing party. You win or lose a legal case in the minutia; the tiniest little victories or failures can turn an entire case. Being able to roll with changes and being comfortable enough to “steer into the skid” are critically important when proceedings take an unexpected turn — and believe me they always will. If you want to be an employment lawyer, you are going to have to get comfortable with thinking on your feet.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might see this. :-)

If I am going to manifest a meeting with a celebrity, I choose Rihanna! My wife, Jessica Cadavid, is a well-known immigration attorney, and her dream is to work with the Beauty from Barbados on gaining her United States citizenship. From Rihanna’s work in non-profit to the inclusiveness of her cosmetics, she is an inspiration beyond her immense musical talent. I think I would be the husband of the century if my wife received a call from Rihanna’s people!

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!