Top Lawyers: Laura Terrell On The 5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law

An Interview with: Eric L. Pines

Make listening to your clients a true priority. Failing to really hear and seek to understand your client’s priorities can work against you in being the lawyer they turn to when they need help. This is true across private practice, in-house and in public service. If you want to be seen as a resource, including when it’s in a proactive way, such as to help mitigate the legal risks of certain business practices or evaluate how to interpret a regulatory requirement, you need to develop a reputation as someone who is available to not only advise but also to listen.

The legal field is known to be extremely competitive. Lawyers are often smart, ambitious, and highly educated. That being said, what does it take to stand out and become a “Top Lawyer” in your specific field of law? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law”, we are talking to top lawyers who share what it takes to excel and stand out in your industry.

As a part of this interview series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Laura Terrell.

Laura Terrell is an executive coach with over twenty-five years of experience as a legal and business leader, www.lauraterrell.com.

Prior to coaching, she was a Special Assistant to the President at the White House, a senior-level appointee at the U.S. Department of Justice, an equity partner in two large, global law firms, and in-house counsel at a publicly traded company.

Laura has also led and managed teams of people across multiple countries, serving as a top advisor to many Fortune 500 and FTSE 100 companies.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dig in, our readers would love to get to know you a bit more. What is the “backstory” that brought you to this particular career path in Law? Did you want to be an attorney “when you grew up”?

I did not know growing up that I wanted to be a lawyer. No one in my family was a lawyer, and I didn’t know any lawyers, so it was an unknown world to me. I went to law school because I was interested in government affairs, and thought being a lawyer would be a good foundation for working in government either as a policy or legal advisor. I did go on to work in public service, and got tremendously valuable, hands-on experience and training in that sector. When I later moved to the private sector, I leveraged that knowledge to help my clients better understand and engage with government regulators and enforcement agencies.

Can you tell us a bit about the nature of your practice and what you focus on?

I started my legal career as an attorney for a U.S. federal regulatory and enforcement agency, and it gave me a keen interest in government investigations. I followed that with working at the U.S. Department of Justice and the White House, in both policy and legal roles, in a wide array of areas, including immigration, consumer law, and homeland security. After several years in public service, I then joined a law firm where my focus was on white collar defense, both investigations and litigation. I built a very successful practice with two global law firms, including as one of the biggest rainmakers in those firms, and enjoyed working on cross-border matters throughout the world with some amazing clients. Now I share my experience with my clients in my executive coaching practice, working to help them shape, direct and pivot in their own legal careers. I understand so much of what they are going through, and I really appreciate having the time to engage deeply with them to help them achieve their goals.

You are a successful attorney. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? What unique qualities do you have that others may not? Can you please share a story or example for each?

First, look for opportunities that offer a chance to make a difference in your career. For example, I was asked when I was working towards partnership in my law firm if I would be willing to try a new area of investigations practice, and to start almost immediately by getting on a plane to fly to West Africa and work there on the ground. I didn’t know a lot about the issues in the matter at hand, but I knew I could learn them and that I had the support of others to help me. So, I grabbed my passport and jumped on that flight. It ended up being one of the best experiences in my professional life, and opened up new avenues for practice for me that were critical on my path to law firm partnership.

Second, recognize that there are going to be times when you fail, but that failure isn’t fatal. In fact, it’s often the way you become more resilient and aware of what you need to do to succeed. I recall early on in my career a very contentious litigation when I made an argument to the court that was soundly rejected. Nothing felt worse than explaining to the client that we had lost the motion, but it also made me determined to propose an alternative path that would achieve our ultimate goals in the case. I had to find a way to get beyond the setback and start regrouping with a solution. I was lucky to have a client who had faith in my abilities and in our whole litigation team, so when they said “what’s next?” I knew they were prepared to stick with me and I also was ready with a plan for moving forward beyond that hurdle. Ultimately, we resolved the case with a great win for our client.

Third, be the best lawyer you can be and really endeavor to give your clients the service and results they need and deserve. Being a lawyer isn’t just a job, it’s a profession where you have the honor of being a member of the bar and doing justice to that obligation, which includes striving to provide the best legal advice and counsel that you can. On the toughest days, I often reminded myself that I was a really good lawyer and my clients were depending on me, so delivering for them was a huge priority. I take a lot of pride in being a lawyer, and being able to help my clients, so doing great work was really energizing. Enjoying what you do and the people you work with is a huge asset in that regard. I’ve been fortunate to have so many exceptional colleagues and clients that they make it a pleasure.

Do you think you have had luck in your success? Can you explain what you mean?

Luck is a big part of success for anyone, whether it’s being assigned randomly to work on something that really changes your career path, accidentally crossing paths with people that turn out to be great mentors and supporters, or just being in the right place at the right time generally. I’ve certainly had a lot of lucky breaks like that. But I also have been strategic in my career, evaluating at different times whether it’s time to make a change or reexamine my priorities as a lawyer. You have to be both directive in your approach to your legal career and open to new possibilities. It’s also incredibly important to seek out mentors and trusted advisors who can provide support when you are trying to figure out what the path forward looks like for you.

Do you think where you went to school has any bearing on your success? How important is it for a lawyer to go to a top-tier school?

The law school I went to (University of Virginia) certainly opened doors for me, including because of its reputation and the excellent education I received there. But I have worked with many amazing lawyers who didn’t go to “top tier” schools. The key, regardless of what school you attended, is to develop your practical legal skills, do great work, and maximize opportunities for gaining experience. The more time you spend after law school to build your knowledge and capabilities, and demonstrate how good you are as a working lawyer, the less it matters where you went to law school.

Based on the lessons you have learned from your experience, if you could go back in time and speak to your twenty-year-old self, what would you say? Would you do anything differently?

I’d probably tell myself to relax a bit more, stop about worrying about what I didn’t know about being a lawyer, and focus instead on really being engaged with each new case or matter, seeing it as a chance to learn and grow. I also believe that you need to be directive in your career, making affirmative choices and seeking feedback so that you can determine how that may change your view of what you want to do next professionally. I did that, and it gave me more control and confidence in my work.

This is not easy work. What is your primary motivation and drive behind the work that you do?

You should like what you do. Working now as a coach with lawyer clients, I often see attorneys who don’t necessarily enjoy the type of law they practice, or the environment in which they practice. Maybe their law firm isn’t a good fit for them, or they feel that their area of practice in their firm or company or their agency isn’t working out. I encourage clients to think about what they value about being lawyers, and what their priorities are for their practice, and, if necessary, make changes to get to where they want to be as attorneys. This isn’t easy work, so you want to enjoy it and feel that it’s right for you. I want to help my clients achieve their goals as attorneys, and support them in learning how they can do that.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?

Working with attorneys who are focused on developing strategies and plans for being elected to the partnership in their law firms is an area where I frequently assist clients as a coach. Navigating the path to partnership, particularly in large law firms, can be a real challenge, and most lawyers know less about that process than they should, and later than they should in their careers. I’ve been there working to make partner, and I understand many of the issues that these lawyers need to address, including how to best position themselves and make their case for election. I really enjoy working with attorneys who are at this stage of their legal careers. I help them think more critically about what it really takes to make partner in their firms, and how they can start preparing earlier and more effectively in the partnership election process.

Where do you go from here? Where do you aim to be in the next chapter of your career?

I’m in the next chapter, which for me is coaching. It gives me the chance to work with clients, and assure them that I know where they are coming from when they are working through challenges or striving towards goals. I want to work with them to help them succeed in their own legal careers.

Without sharing anything confidential, can you please share your most successful “war story”? Can you share the funniest?

Both of those elements are reflected in a matter where I represented a client in a mediation which neither of us thought was going to be successful but which was mandated by the court before we headed to trial. The most senior partner on the case thought the mediation was an exercise in futility, and decided not to go, sending me instead, thinking it would be good experience for me but that, ultimately, we were going nowhere with this. So off I went, but it was tough. When we arrived for the mediation, everyone was pretty jet lagged from a long flight and the client in particular was pretty depressed about our prospects of success.

Moreover, while the mediator was very highly regarded, we had a significant challenge. We were trying to demonstrate that fragments of data on a computer showed certain information about the plaintiff’s claims were untrue. The mediator, however, had never used a computer (!), didn’t seem to understand the technical evidence, and seemed very skeptical of our arguments. It was proving really difficult for both me and another of my partners to break down and explain to the mediator the basics of how computers worked, including how data is recorded, why it may be fragmented, and the ways even those fragments can be relevant. The client was frustrated and, in addition, as the day went on, the office began to reek strongly of hamburger grease, due to the fast food restaurant on the first floor of the building where the mediation took place. We took a break for lunch (not at the fast food restaurant) and the client was not happy, saying we were wasting our time with this mediator.

But we regrouped, came back and I took another turn at talking to the mediator, doubling down on painstakingly walking them through the technical aspects of metadata, listening and responding to their questions. The mediator was indeed very smart, and tuning in to what they were thinking and how they were approaching the issues was critical for me to make our case. After several more hours of this, late in the day, the mediator suddenly turned to me and said very simply “I get it.” With that, they left the room to go meet with opposing counsel. And in just a few minutes they came back with a proposal that we and the plaintiff could agree with. We settled the matter successfully for our client, who was thrilled. But whenever I think of that mediation, I can still smell the hamburger grease.

Ok, fantastic. Let’s now shift to discussing some advice for aspiring lawyers. Do you work remotely? Onsite? Or Hybrid? What do you think will be the future of how law offices operate? What do you prefer? Can you please explain what you mean?

As a coach, I work largely remote, usually connecting with my clients via video conferencing. And I find that this is how most of my lawyer clients work as well. That said, I think we all crave some in-person interaction, so I try to find time to do that, including to meet in person where it works for my clients, even if that’s just to grab coffee when we both happen to be in the same city on travel or for meetings. I also facilitate in-person learning opportunities, such as presentations and roundtable discussions. I think most legal environments will continue to have lawyers working in a hybrid capacity — sometimes at the office, and sometimes elsewhere. You’re often traveling for work again now, and sometimes you also need time to focus in a quieter environment, maybe drafting a brief or crafting your opening argument. Even before COVID, in my law firms that was how I and my teams worked, and how my colleagues and peers worked as well. I think the hybrid environment is here to stay.

How has the legal world changed since COVID? How do you think it might change in the near future? Can you explain what you mean?

Long before COVID, the adoption of electronic filing, the use of other technologies like videoconferencing and teleconferencing, email and messaging platforms made it easier for lawyers to communicate without sitting face to face with each other in the office. But lawyers weren’t adopting these technologies as broadly as they are now. After COVID, those technologies are still being used, and they are changing some of the basic assumptions about how lawyers work. Clients, for example, may be less inclined to pay for outside counsel’s travel costs for meetings that don’t really need to take place in person. Courts are leveraging video technology more. And, overall, there is more demand for flexibility, whether that is only being in the office on certain days or recognizing that people need support when unexpected issues arise that mean it’s better for them to work at home.

Based on your experience, how can attorneys effectively leverage social media to build their practice?

Social media can be a great asset in building your brand. Whether that’s hosting a podcast on legal issues that are core to your practice, building up your profile on LinkedIn, or improving your firm’s website to be more dynamic, it can really bring attention to what you offer as a lawyer. Most important is not to just rely upon your bio on your law firm’s website, or your listing in your company or agency’s directory. You need to do more than that to stay relevant in a highly competitive legal environment where social media matters.

Excellent. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law?” Please share a story or an example for each.

1. Becoming knowledgeable in your area of practice is key, but you also need to keep maintaining your knowledge and skills throughout your career. It can be hard to find time to attend webinars and educational conferences, or to keep up with practice newsletters and materials. But it’s really important that you stay up to date on what is happening in your area of practice if you want to be seen as a true expert in your field. Learning from your colleagues at the bar is also helpful, as often a journal article or blog post can give you a quick update on something you may want to dig into more deeply.
2. Make listening to your clients a true priority. Failing to really hear and seek to understand your client’s priorities can work against you in being the lawyer they turn to when they need help. This is true across private practice, in-house and in public service. If you want to be seen as a resource, including when it’s in a proactive way, such as to help mitigate the legal risks of certain business practices or evaluate how to interpret a regulatory requirement, you need to develop a reputation as someone who is available to not only advise but also to listen.
3. Seek feedback and respond to it. Evaluations and performance reviews, as well as more informal feedback from clients and colleagues, are an important way to learn how others view us and what we might want to focus on to develop better relationships and legal skills. I frequently urge my clients to not wait for their end-of-year assessment before asking supervisors, colleagues, clients and peers for their thoughts and input about what are an attorney’s strengths and areas for improvement. And if you get feedback that you don’t understand or that doesn’t make sense, ask the person giving that feedback to explain what they are saying and what is motivating that statement. You may be worried about what kind of feedback you will get if you ask for it, but you shouldn’t let that hold you back from learning what you need to know about how you are viewed as an attorney. You can’t improve your skills or work to change something that may make you a better lawyer if you never ask for feedback.
4. Be aware of and willing to consider when it’s time to make a change. The legal profession changes, and your priorities as a lawyer may change as well. For example, if you are having difficulty growing your practice at your law firm, it may be worth examining if the firm is still a good fit for you and your practice, or if another firm would be a better option. Making a pivot or a transition professionally can sometimes seem daunting or overly disruptive, but it can also provide a potential path for growing your skills, being more satisfied in your work, or having access to new resources. It’s important to do periodic check-ins in your legal career, asking if you’re still doing the type of work you want to do in the environment where you want to do it.
5. Seek opportunities. The top lawyers in their fields don’t just sit back and wait for good things to happen to them. They actively look for ways in which they can transform their careers, take on new challenges, and work to advance their professional lives. As a lawyer, when I saw a great opportunity to stretch myself beyond my comfort zone or my current experience, I took it and it always made me a stronger and more capable attorney — including to help me achieve partnership, transform my practice to a new and expanding area, and grow my reputation. Someone is not going to necessarily come to you, tap you on the shoulder and tell you that you are ready for a promotion, a new role, or more responsibility. You have to look for those prospects for yourself and be an advocate for why you are well positioned to take them on.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might see this. :-)

Meeting Warren Buffett would be incredible. I have been reading his investment commentary for many years, and I think his business approach translates into solid career advice as well. He speaks frequently about how important it is to invest in yourself, and I often talk about that with my clients. You should view your legal career with a business mindset. I’d also like to ask him about times when he has been frustrated or disappointed, or had a setback, and what made him decide to stay the course or make a change. He always seems so certain of his investing philosophy but it would be interesting to know when he’s been tested in applying that philosophy in practice.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!

About the Interviewer: Eric L. Pines is a nationally recognized federal employment lawyer, mediator, and attorney business coach. He represents federal employees and acts as in-house counsel for over fifty thousand federal employees through his work as a federal employee labor union representative. A formal federal employee himself, Mr. Pines began his federal employment law career as in-house counsel for AFGE Local 1923 which is in Social Security Administration’s headquarters and is the largest federal union local in the world. He presently serves as AFGE 1923’s Chief Counsel as well as in-house counsel for all FEMA bargaining unit employees and numerous Department of Defense and Veteran Affairs unions.

While he and his firm specialize in representing federal employees from all federal agencies and in reference to virtually all federal employee matters, his firm has placed special attention on representing Veteran Affairs doctors and nurses hired under the authority of Title. He and his firm have a particular passion in representing disabled federal employees with their requests for medical and religious reasonable accommodations when those accommodations are warranted under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (ADA). He also represents them with their requests for Federal Employee Disability Retirement (OPM) when an accommodation would not be possible.

Mr. Pines has also served as a mediator for numerous federal agencies including serving a year as the Library of Congress’ in-house EEO Mediator. He has also served as an expert witness in federal court for federal employee matters. He has also worked as an EEO technical writer drafting hundreds of Final Agency Decisions for the federal sector.

Mr. Pines’ firm is headquartered in Houston, Texas and has offices in Baltimore, Maryland and Atlanta, Georgia. His first passion is his wife and five children. He plays classical and rock guitar and enjoys playing ice hockey, running, and biking. Please visit his websites at www.pinesfederal.com and www.toughinjurylawyers.com. He can also be reached at eric@pinesfederal.com.