Top Lawyers: Marie Sarantakis On The 5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law

An Interview With Chere Estrin

Integrity — No matter how ugly of a side of humanity you witness, you need to remain civil. Your word is everything in this business. If you are respected, your words will resonate much louder than that of your opponent in the courtroom. You are also there to help put things in perspective for your clients, who may be so focused on revenge, that they potentially lose sight as to what is in their best interests and how victory is to be defined in their divorce proceeding.

The legal field is known to be extremely competitive. Lawyers are often smart, ambitious, and highly educated. That being said, what does it take to stand out and become a “Top Lawyer” in your specific field of law? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law”, we are talking to top lawyers who share what it takes to excel and stand out in your industry.

As a part of this interview series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Marie Sarantakis.

Marie Sarantakis is a prominent family law attorney, best-selling author, and nationally recognized divorce coach. She is the President of Sarantakis Law Group, Ltd. and Adrikos, LLC. To learn more about Marie Sarantakis visit www.mariesarantakis.com.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dig in, our readers would love to get to know you a bit more. What is the “backstory” that brought you to this particular career path in Law? Did you want to be an attorney “when you grew up”?

I come from a family of entrepreneurs. When I was a child, my parents owned a video store and a jewelry store. I grew up spending seven days a week in the family businesses. It was an amazing childhood. I enjoyed working and talking to people from all walks of life. Almost every conversation I engaged in was with adults, so as a result I never related well to children my age. They seemed boring. I much preferred socializing in the business and playing with my German Shepard dogs.

I always did well in school but never enjoyed it. I was never fond of mornings or authority. After a little convincing, my mom eventually agreed to eventually homeschool me in middle school. I loved it. I would read from morning until night, but all while sitting in the public eye at our stores. This suited me well as I was always a social introvert. A contradiction, but one that remains accurate to this day. I enjoyed being in my own head but having people around me. I suppose it’s for the same reason people love to go sit in a coffeeshop to work.

When customers in the store would ask me what I wanted to be when I grew up, lawyer was the default response.

Maybe it’s because it sounded like respectable profession. Maybe it’s because as a Greek girl there was an expectation that I would pursue law school or med school. At the end of the day, the thing that I knew for certain was that I wanted to run my own business and that a law degree would ultimately help me get there.

Can you tell us a bit about the nature of your practice and what you focus on?

I’m a family law attorney licensed in Illinois and Wisconsin. My focus is on high-net worth divorce and parentage matters. In addition to my work as a litigator, I am a mediator, parenting coordinator, divorce coach, and Guardian ad Litem (representing children’s best interests in the courtroom). I recently authored a book titled, “How to Divorce a Narcissist and Win”, and frequently deal with cases in which one of the parties exhibits characteristics associated with Narcissitic Personality Disorder.

You are a successful attorney. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? What unique qualities do you have that others may not? Can you please share a story or example for each?

1. Tenacity. As a business owner and attorney, you are always running into roadblocks. You also hear a lot of discouraging words from naysayers. You have to keep working on your goals despite any adversity. Many of the cases that I prevailed in were against the odds, whether due to challenging circumstances or difficult personalities, but I maintained my ground and preserved. I started my own law practice within weeks of being licensed as an attorney. This was practically unheard of. Many respectable attorneys, although coming from a good place, discouraged me for making such a bold move so young and so inexperienced. While I heard what they were saying, I knew that I was willing to work ten times harder than someone with more experience. I knew that I had the network and resources in place to find the right answers when obstacles would arise. More than anything, I had faith in myself. After several years, I am proud to say that my business not only made it but has enjoyed a great deal of recognition from the legal community.
2. Self-discipline. As a lawyer in charge of your own firm, there is no one cheering you on or telling you what to do next. It is hard to have a growth mindset when you are buried in work — not only legal work but that of running your own practice. You have to be your own biggest fan. You have to work hard on the days when you feel like you have nothing to give. Lastly, you need to remain future-focused, reminding yourself that what you are doing today is taking you to the next level. A little sacrifice now will pay major dividends moving forward.
   When I was in law school, I worked at a family law firm, interned for the Illinois Supreme Court, held several leadership positions in area bar associations, and commuted several hours each day. I didn’t take my evenings, weekends, or holidays off as downtime. While this would be unsustainable as a permanent way of life, being able to accomplish so much while I was in school, thrust me to a level of someone with so much more experience at the inception of my career. I knew that this time was incredibly valuable, and I made the most of every minute of it. You make sacrifices in the moment when you become aware of fleeting opportunities.
3. Compassion. As a divorce attorney you cannot forget that the people around you are hurting. They are often afraid and alone. They come to you for not only a practical solution, but also peace of mind. Lawyers tend to be very cynical and preoccupied with risk. While it is important that we give our clients realistic expectations and teach them to weigh risks and outcomes, we need to remember to also give hope rather than discouragement. There is a reason that they refer to us as “Counselors at Law”.

Do you think you have had luck in your success? Can you explain what you mean?

I don’t believe in luck. I believe in hard work and discipline. I attribute my success to sacrifice, consistently working towards goals, developing good habits, and taking calculated risks.

When it comes to things that are outside of my control, my Christian faith is a big part of my life, and I credit God for countless blessings that I have received, many of which were undeserved. While I have worked very hard for many years, God has given much more than I could have ever accomplished on my own.

Do you think where you went to school has any bearing on your success? How important is it for a lawyer to go to a top-tier school?

I had a rather unconventional education. I was homeschooled throughout middle school, went back to public high school, and then began college at the age of sixteen. I attended night school for college and law school. I attribute homeschooling to being a freethinker. Starting college at a young age was a wonderful experience. I appreciated every minute of it. The idea of going to school at night and drinking Starbucks in class at a time in my life when I had just received my driver’s license was liberating. I loved that the evening program was full of second career and other non-traditional students. I opted that route for law school as well. I attended The John Marshall Law School in downtown Chicago. It was not a top-tier school, but it had a legacy for success. Many of the graduates historically came from immigrant families and went on to become well-respected Judges. I don’t believe the school one chooses is the greatest determinant of success. Driven people create opportunities wherever they go.

Based on the lessons you have learned from your experience, if you could go back in time and speak to your twenty-year-old self, what would you say? Would you do anything differently?

I wouldn’t change a thing. Both my good and my bad choices made me who I am today. You become wise through trial, error, and experience. Failure creates resiliency and fuels drive. My past mistakes fueled my greatest accomplishments.

This is not easy work. What is your primary motivation and drive behind the work that you do?

My faith. I believe we are endowed with many strengths and talents, and we have a duty to use those gifts and strive towards fulfilling our potential.

Perhaps there is also a sense of “FOMO” (fear of missing out). I want to experience the most I can in this life. In order to do that, one has to work hard and play hard.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?

I am creating a series of on-demand educational videos related to divorce. We live in a time where there are so many opportunities online and people are really reevaluating who they want to be moving forward. There are great resources out there for entrepreneurs and consumers who want to take advantage of them.

Where do you go from here? Where do you aim to be in the next chapter of your career?

I have no idea. I say that only because I try to remain open-minded to whatever opportunities present themselves in the future. Perhaps something media related such as television or radio. In the meantime, I’m plenty busy with my coaching and law practice. It’s important to be receptive to new ways of doing things and adapting your plans — both as an entrepreneur and a lawyer.

Without sharing anything confidential, can you please share your most successful “war story”? Can you share the funniest?

Oh, there are so many. Successful stories are where the couple reconciles, children are returned to the United States after one parent absconds with them to a foreign country, or where a spouse finds joy and freedom after years of abuse.

As for funny, I have argued over who should have possession of a “pet rock”, $20.00 vase (that was “accidently” broken after the hearing), fifteen-year-old luggage, etc. I have gone to people’s homes to supervise them putting colored sticky notes on the items they wish to claim (down to the phone chargers and contents of the junk drawer). While you would think that people fighting this hard over things of such low value likely don’t have a lot of financial resources, to the contrary, it’s my wealthier clients who can afford to have the pettier fights. I once had an attorney write me that my client was using too many of the paper towels while the spouses were still residing in the same marital home — and that the wife wanted to be reimbursed for two rolls. I’ve even drafted a parenting time schedule for a pet turtle.

Clients have come into my office and broken out in interpretive dance in the midst of their interview, raunchy sex tapes have randomly been played in the midst of depositions, and love triangles have been exposed in the midst of a hearing.

In one of my cases, one of the parties wasn’t sure whether he was married after the ceremony took place on a reality television show. The one thing I can say about family law is that “truth is stranger than fiction” and if you ever get bored, you are doing it wrong.

Ok, fantastic. Let’s now shift to discussing some advice for aspiring lawyers. Do you work remotely? Onsite? Or Hybrid? What do you think will be the future of how law offices operate? What do you prefer? Can you please explain what you mean?

I moved into a new and contemporary office space located directly above the Lizzadro Museum of Lapidary Art in Oak Brook, Illinois immediately after the pandemic. It’s a stunning space, but I must admit, that I barely ever spend any time there. In the old days, we met with all our clients in person and attended court each morning. Now, our practice has shifted to primarily remote operations. I much prefer remote; however, I want to be respectful of many of my clients who are more comfortable meeting with their attorney, especially for the first time, in person. I defer to my clients’ preferences, but 95% of my work is done from my home office. It is much more efficient and saves both me and my clients’ money.

I believe that we can expect to see a hybrid approach taken by many law firms and courthouses in the future. For example, in family law in Illinois, every thirty to forty-five days we have court appearances for what is commonly referred to as a status proceeding. In a status, we report to the court what is going on in the case. These appearances in-person would often be very time-consuming, even if the actual time we spent talking to the Judge was relatively short. Between the drive time to the courthouse and the volume of people in the courtroom awaiting to have their cases heard you would spend a large part of your morning waiting to approach the bench. Online, we are able to get things done in a fraction of the time. Many of the counties that I practice in have indicated a willingness to keep statuses remote indefinitely. Some Judges have indicated that while hearings and trials, court appearances which are evidentiary in nature and where things are being decided, may be in-person. I would imagine it is likely that we will see a hybrid and each region may take a different approach.

How has the legal world changed since COVID? How do you think it might change in the near future? Can you explain what you mean?

The Courts in Chicago and surrounding counties did an excellent job to shifting to an online platform, and conducting proceedings via Zoom, at rapid speed. We were forced to make adjustments due to necessity, and while there was initial hesitation amongst many members of the bar and judiciary, it seems that there is an overwhelming amount of support to continue remote proceedings, at least in some capacity, well into the future. It will be interesting to see how the legal community proceeds post-pandemic, but it would seem that remote court calls will continue to improve legal efficiency and access to justice amongst litigants who financially struggle to pay the price of taking off of work for a day to come to court. Conducting legal business remotely is here to stay.

We often hear about the importance of networking and getting referrals. Is this still true today? Has the nature of networking changed or has its importance changed? Can you explain what you mean?

At the heart of every business is the human condition. Building connections cannot quite as meaningfully be replicated in a remote context, at least initially, but we are learning to adapt. At first, looking at people on the computer screen felt awkward and inauthentic. It seems that initial discomfort has subsided.

On one hand, the decrease in networking events and social gatherings has diminished networking opportunities, but on the other hand, this makes it more lucrative for contacts people already have in their existing networks. For the attorneys who either had established a strong name for themselves pre-pandemic, or for those that can leverage technology to maintain their presence, the pandemic has increased their businesses. This is why it is important to adapt. Networking still exists, it just looks a little different.

Based on your experience, how can attorneys effectively leverage social media to build their practice?

There is no greater determinant of success for a lawyer than their reputation. Social media is a great way to become recognizable, build authority, and gain consumer trust. Potential clients want to know the people who will represent them. Attorneys need to find a balance between being approachable and still respectable. I would caution lawyers to be very careful about expressing their political views or anything controversial, as from a business perspective, it likely makes no sense to alienate a substantial segment of your customer base.

Excellent. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law?” Please share a story or an example for each.

1. Thick Skin. As a divorce attorney, you are dealing with people at the very worst time in their lives. They are struggling financially, emotionally, and many times also physically. You are on the front lines as they are dealing with an inordinate amount of stress and heartache. No matter how excellent of an attorney you are, the majority of your clients will be calling you either crying or screaming. You have to learn to not take it personal. This is hard for compassionate attorneys who genuinely care about their client’s well-being. In addition to your clients, you may come across difficult and unethical opposing counsel. Many have unfortunately learned that unscrupulous tactics can sometimes lead to desirable short-term outcomes. These are the attorneys who may win the battle but lose the war. Their reputations will precede them. When you are faced with a nasty opposing counsel, you must remain diplomatic and above the fray.
2. Desire to Learn. Family lawyers need to be versed in a wide variety of legal issues. I don’t know of any other type of law that touches on so many different practice areas. For example, the typical person going through a divorce may need assistance with real estate matters (when selling the marital residence), tax issues (implications of being awarded certain investment accounts), insurance policies (to secure support obligations), and estate planning (setting up new wills and trusts). It is grossly insufficient to only be versed in matters regarding divorce. An attorney needs to have a basic understanding of how these matters impact a divorce case and a network of attorneys to send their clients to when they need more specialized legal advice. A good divorce attorney is always learning. The law is evolving, and they must stay abreast of current case law and statutory amendments. In addition to substantive changes, procedurally there are new things we must learn each day. Especially during the pandemic when we must incorporate new forms of technology into our practices.
3. Creativity. A great attorney keeps cases out of the courtroom. They know that personal matters, especially those dealing with children, are best settled by the parties themselves. In order to come to a favorable outcome, you need to understand what is most important to people and why. Everyone has different priorities and often it’s the reasons behind those priorities that allow us to brainstorm innovative solutions. Even in cases where not everyone can get what they want, we are at a minimum usually able to, in some capacity, fashion an agreement that appeases both parties’ biggest concerns. A large part of litigation is ameliorating risk. When a case goes before the Court you no longer have control of the outcome. Successful lawyers work hard to bring everyone to the table and craft an innovative solution. Greedy attorneys keep their clients in court and facilitate discord.
4. Business Acumen. You have to understand the basic principles of human sociology coupled with fundamental financial principles. You also have to teach your clients how to approach their divorce like a business. Entrepreneurs know that good decisions are not based in emotion and often sacrifices must be made for the greater good. This also applies to divorce.
5. Integrity — No matter how ugly of a side of humanity you witness, you need to remain civil. Your word is everything in this business. If you are respected, your words will resonate much louder than that of your opponent in the courtroom. You are also there to help put things in perspective for your clients, who may be so focused on revenge, that they potentially lose sight as to what is in their best interests and how victory is to be defined in their divorce proceeding.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might see this. :-)

I would love to have lunch with Lisa Vanderpump. I admire her dedication to rescuing dogs on a global level. She has used her voice and notoriety as a platform to do so much good. Saving abused and neglected animals is a cause near and dear to my heart and I would love to become more meaningfully involved in this type of work in the future. Plus, she’s a restaurateur. Who better to dine with than someone in the business.