Top Lawyers: Perrie Weiner of Baker McKenzie On The 5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law

An Interview With Chere Estrin

Train, mentor and motivate others on your team to be the very best they can be. Particularly if you are a rainmaker with a large practice, you can’t do this alone. You need a strong team. I’m extremely grateful to have such a fantastic team of lawyers with whom I work. They are all incredibly smart, talented and hard working. I learn new and fresh approaches from them and from seeing cases through their eyes.

The legal field is known to be extremely competitive. Lawyers are often smart, ambitious, and highly educated. That being said, what does it take to stand out and become a “Top Lawyer” in your specific field of law? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law”, we are talking to top lawyers who share what it takes to excel and stand out in your industry.

As a part of this interview series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Perrie M. Weiner.

Perrie M. Weiner is the partner in charge of Baker McKenzie’s L.A. office, who in two years has grown the office from fourto 40 legal professionals. He also is the Chair of Baker McKenzie’s Securities Litigation Practice in North America, which under his leadership has been ranked and recognized locally, regionally, nationally and internationally by Chambers and Legal 500. His primary focus is on securities class actions and shareholder derivative actions, as well as on SEC investigations and enforcement actions, where he represents both public and private companies and their officers and directors, as well as hedge funds and their investment advisors.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dig in, our readers would love to get to know you a bit more. What is the “backstory” that brought you to this particular career path in Law? Did you want to be an attorney “when you grew up”?

I come from a family of lawyers. My father was a lawyer and CPA who took companies public, and my 10-year older brother, Jeff, is a corporate securities lawyer. So, I had two very significant legal mentors and role models I looked up to growing up, and who got me interested in law and in the securities industry.

In law school, I was a drummer in my school’s Libel & Slander rock band and we were part of an annual entertainment ritual called Libel & Slander night, where we roasted our professors. After performing at this charitable law school function, I was approached by a federal judge alumnus who was in the audience. He handed me his card and invited me to come extern for him. After successfully completing that federal judicial externship, I was recommended by him and selected to be a federal judicial law clerk for another judge, which started me on an accelerated path in litigation.

From there, I was recruited to the then-top L.A./California/National/International law firm, Brobeck, Phleger and Harrison, a 100-year-old storied law firm and litigation powerhouse based in San Francisco. Brobeck also was at the epicenter and the forefront of the technology boom in Silicon Valley, so I had a front row seat in the 90s. When the tech bubble burst and many of the tech companies our Firm took public couldn’t get conventional financing, hedge funds entered the scene with PIPE (private investment in public equity) financings, and I became the first Big Law litigator to handle hedge fund securities litigation. The SEC became interested in hedge funds and PIPE financings, so my practice quickly morphed into an SEC enforcement practice as well. In fact, my practice was blossoming to the point where I was becoming a rainmaker and industry leader.

Six months before Brobeck blew up, I had offers from all of the top law firms. I ended up joining what was called Piper Marbury Rudnick & Wolf, a 950-lawyer law firm, because the two co-founders — who were visionaries — flew out to meet with me in L.A. and offered to let me lead and chair the Firm’s securities litigation practice, which I helped build from the ground up.

Given my entrepreneurial approach to law and the business of law, it was a natural fit for me. My practice took off and I quickly became one of the leading rainmakers in the law firm. I also served on the executive and policy committees of the firm, during which time we conceived of and built what became overnight a 4,500-lawyer global firm that is now known as DLA Piper. I was sent to a Harvard Business School program crafted for the leadership of the Firm, which taught us the business of law, and how to effectively build, grow and lead a global law firm. I also served for five years as the managing partner of the L.A. offices — which started with only a few lawyers in one office when I first joined, to just over 100 lawyers in two offices by the time I left. Ironically, the second office we acquired downtown was my former Brobeck office where I had practiced as a young lawyer.

Just over 2 1/2 years ago, I was given this wonderful opportunity to join this storied 70 plus-year old global law firm, Baker McKenzie. Although Baker McKenzie is the first truly global law firm with “global” in its DNA, it had a very young L.A. office with only four lawyers. Again, the allure for me was to be able to lead and grow the Los Angeles office, as well as the securities litigation group, while I was also continuing to develop and further diversify my own practice into new areas, like the SPAC (special purpose acquisition company) and de-SPAC M & A market.

Can you tell us a bit about the nature of your practice and what you focus on?

The core of my practice is securities litigation, where I represent public and private companies and/or their officers and directors in securities class actions and/or shareholder derivative actions, and SEC investigations and enforcement actions. I also represent hedge funds and their investment advisors in securities litigation as well as in SEC investigations and enforcement actions (think insider trading, Section 5, Section 15 and other types of claims). I also have a large consumer class action practice (including CIPA/call recording, TCPA).

In the early days of COVID, I started and built a Lease Litigation and Restructuring Practice, particularly for companies with significant leases that were unable to utilize their space due to local ordinances prohibiting their occupancy. Most recently, I started the Firm’s SPAC Rapid Response Team, where I am handling securities litigation and related SEC investigations/enforcement actions.

You are a successful attorney. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? What unique qualities do you have that others may not? Can you please share a story or example for each?

I attribute my success to not just loving being a lawyer, but loving being a legal entrepreneur and the business of law. I never miss a beat. That’s what enables me to build and lead offices and practice groups.

I also am not the sort of lawyer who stays in his own lane. That would bore the daylights out of me. Rather, I like to be nimble and try new things. For example, when COVID hit, I pivoted several times, first to innovating and building the Lease Litigation & Restructuring Practice, and then to innovating and building the SPAC Rapid Respond Team, to service client’s needs.

I also love giving back to my community. I sit on the board of my children’s middle and high schools. I was in the parents’ leadership circle where my kids went to college. I sit on various charitable boards. And I’m still a drummer — only today, I play in a band I formed called Baker & the McKenzie’s. We compete as part of Law Rocks in a “battle of the bands” for charity — more recently for L.A. Family Housing. We play annually at the Whiskey on Sunset, and have won three out of the five years we competed, with our next competition coming up this April!

Do you think you have had luck in your success? Can you explain what you mean?

Yes, I have had a lot of luck in life, for which I have tremendous gratitude, always. And I definitely believe there is a large component of luck in a person’s success. I look at success as the point at which hard work meets with opportunity — in my book, a synonym for luck. I always like to be “present” and “mindful” in the practice of law, keeping my eyes and ears open, and moving decidedly and confidently forward but with tremendous peripheral vision, always being willing to try new, and innovative things. And always, putting my client’s interests first!

Do you think where you went to school has any bearing on your success? How important is it for a lawyer to go to a top-tier school?

It’s important to play to your strengths and to your law school’s strengths, at least in the beginning. Many state and federal judges were alums from my law school, which is what opened doors for me early on in my career, especially given the early opportunities I had to extern and then clerk for federal district court judges. But that only helps for the first job. The rest is up to you, as a lawyer.

Based on the lessons you have learned from your experience, if you could go back in time and speak to your twenty-year-old self, what would you say? Would you do anything differently?

Interestingly, I never really planned out my life or my career the way most lawyers do. I had a lot of luck. A lot of serendipity. I wouldn’t have changed a thing. I never knew where the next turn would take me, but I always kept my eyes and ears open, and tried to watch and read the tea leaves.

My greatest joy, always, was and is my children. I was very careful not to let my career interfere with raising, and spending quality time with, my children. I never missed a single Little League or sports game with my son. Nor did I miss a single theatrical, music or sports performance for my daughter. My brother thought I was nuts, flying around constantly for business, working tremendous hours but never missing a beat with my kids. But I wouldn’t change a thing.

I love being a lawyer. But it doesn’t even remotely equate to how much I love being a father and a husband. That’s where I think most lawyers go wrong — they lose their bearings on their priorities in life — family. Anyone who ever has worked with me knows my mantra, family first!

This is not easy work. What is your primary motivation and drive behind the work that you do?

I wake up each and every day looking forward to new challenges and opportunities. I love what I do, my team, my practice group, my office and my Firm. There is a collegiality at Baker McKenzie that is palpable. Building is energizing. My wife jokes that I’m working almost as hard now as I did as a young litigation associate at Brobeck, pacing at 2,400 billable hours, with total billable and non-billable/pro bono hours exceeding 3,400 hours combined. And my originations have been off the charts. But I wouldn’t have it any other way, as I love what I do.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?

My SEC investigation/enforcement practice has become extremely busy, particularly under this administration and under SEC Chairman Gensler’s leadership. Insider trading is at the forefront of many of my hedge fund cases. Another tremendous growth area for me, and my practice area, is SPAC litigation. At the same time, I originate a ton of M & A work, and capital markets work — including IPOs — for my corporate partners, given the number of relationships that I have. I also look over the shoulders of my corporate partners, to make sure the litigation provisions in the agreements and the disclosures in the public filings are done astutely and prophylactically to help our clients avoid future litigation pitfalls.

Where do you go from here? Where do you aim to be in the next chapter of your career?

As the CEO of my Firm and I talked about at the beginning of my journey at Baker McKenzie, I’m looking forward to having the L.A. office be the legacy of all of the early joiners to the Firm’s L.A. office. Today we’re at 40 people strong — four to 40 in 2 1/2 years is extraordinary and I’m looking forward to taking it to the next level. The success of our L.A. office has already been widely recognized, with the L.A. Business Journal for example identifying our office as among the most admired, but I am determined to continue to grow it into one of the most significant and diverse offices of the Firm. Same with the securities litigation group.

My daughter is a first-year law student and one of my dreams is to practice with at least one — if not both! — of my children. (My son, for now, is focused on real estate development, but I haven’t given up!)

Without sharing anything confidential, can you please share your most successful “war story”? Can you share the funniest?

Hmm. As an SEC enforcement lawyer, some of my most successful war stories are those that can’t be published, and which remain non-public. That said, one recent example I can share involves a close friend and ultimately, client. He was originally being represented by another lawyer from a small firm, who planned to represent not only him as the managing partner of his hedge fund, but also his partner and the fund itself, when there were clearly conflicts of interest. But when he, his partner and the fund received a Wells notice, he spoke with me about undertaking his own separate representation.

I completely turned things around for him, first to the point where the SEC was simply going to name him and his wife as relief defendants, for purposes of seeking disgorgement but not naming him as a party in the complaint. This in and of itself would have been a huge win. But by the time I was done, the SEC decided to take a complete pass, and my client and his wife were able to keep the $2 million-plus in gains that were at issue in this case. And even though the SEC proceeded to file an enforcement action against his partner and fund, he was completely removed from everything before the action was filed, saving his reputation and good name. On the other hand, his partner was barred from the industry and paid a significant amount in disgorgement and penalties.

I also obtained a notice of termination of the investigation on my client’s behalf. No SEC enforcement client of mine has ever faced a bar or suspension, many never get Wells’d, and even those that do, when the facts are difficult, ultimately prevail.

The funniest story was when I was defending another hedge fund in a securities action in NY federal district court. Our adversary was represented by a high-profile lawyer from Texas who was incredibly well-financed. He was aggressively litigating the case, trying to create discovery torts, with high risk of monetary and evidentiary sanctions. At the time, I had a number of cases for various hedge fund clients against this same plaintiffs’ firm in front of a number of federal district court judges in New York, with various protective orders in place.

This lawyer, however, was incorrigible, and time and again tried to circumvent other judges’ discovery orders. Since one of the key cases was sitting in front of the then-senior status judge, I teed up a series of discovery motions, ultimately culminating in a motion for terminating sanctions, since I was representing the defendant.

I had found out that the judge, who was quite elderly, couldn’t see or hear out of his left eye or ear, respectively. He conducted hearings in chambers at a large rectangular table where he sat at the head. I had the associate on the case engage the Texas lawyers in conversation until the judge called our case. That gave me the opportunity to run into chambers and save the seats on the judge’s right side.

After I laid out the series of discovery violations perpetrated by this Firm in this and other judges’ NY courtrooms, I could see I was really getting this judge worked up. Whenever the other side tried to argue, it annoyed the heck out of the judge, because they were talking on his bad side where he struggled to see and hear. Eventually, the judge started screaming at all of us. The associate leaned into me and asked what we should do. I said, run like hell and clear the judge’s chambers as quickly as possible!

On the way out, we told the court clerk we’d reach out for the outcome. The next day, my associate called for the outcome. The court clerk said, this is one you’ll want to pick up in person. When my associate went to pick it up, the court clerk and others sitting next to him smiled, handed her the written decision — we had just won terminating sanctions on the eve of trial! The case was written up in the New York Law Journal. It was a very funny and victorious moment, winning what the client and others thought was an unwinnable case, in front of a judge that started out by not liking us. I attribute our success to our tenacity, to knowing the judge and getting him to like us, and more than anything else, to knowing what side of the bench to sit on!

Ok, fantastic. Let’s now shift to discussing some advice for aspiring lawyers. Do you work remotely? Onsite? Or Hybrid? What do you think will be the future of how law offices operate? What do you prefer? Can you please explain what you mean?

During COVID and through today, I do a hybrid. We are in the office two days a week, and I work remotely out of my home the other three days. I think that most law firms will eventually jettison around 25% of their space, offering their lawyers an opportunity to work certain days of the week remotely from home. In fact, as the partner in charge of our Firm’s L.A. office, that is the program we have in place right now.

Personally, I’m old school and I prefer working in the office. I also think it’s important for younger lawyers evolving and growing in their careers to have face time with the partners with whom they are working. There’s a benefit to being able to work on cases together, in person and in the office. There’s also a comradery that develops by working in person together.

How has the legal world changed since COVID? How do you think it might change in the near future? Can you explain what you mean?

As a result of COVID, I’ve handled cases against the SEC by Zoom. I’ve handled court cases and hearings by Zoom. It’s a lot easier to do than I thought it would be. In fact, there are fewer surprises, because adversaries commonly share documents they want to use when examining witnesses and send them in advance in order to have them authenticated. I can definitely see cases being able to be handled by Zoom. I can also see client meetings continuing by Zoom. It saves tremendous amounts of travel time. It is not only efficient, but cost effective for clients. And you lose very little in the process.

I’ve handled a lot of client pitches by Zoom. And I have become very adept at working remotely from home. For law firms, one of the single biggest line items is the real estate overhead. I’ve seen profitability shoot up as a result of being able to reduce the amount of office space that is required. I’ve also seen profitability shoot up by reducing travel time and expenses.

Given all of these efficiencies that have cut straight to a law firm’s bottom line, as well as to a client’s, I definitely see these COVID-necessitated changes becoming more permanent over time.

We often hear about the importance of networking and getting referrals. Is this still true today? Has the nature of networking changed or has its importance changed? Can you explain what you mean?

Yes, networking and getting referrals is important for rainmakers. As you evolve in your career, it happens quite naturally because of the reputation that you develop in the community.

As a result of COVID, however, a lot of that has changed. Instead of speaking on panels in person, I’ve been doing webinars. My client pitches have mostly been by Zoom. I am continuing to publish on cutting edge areas of the law, as I have always done.

During COVID, I added an outside dining room to our backyard, with a fire pit, fountain and large table. I am now able to invite clients who want to meet in person to my home, and we meet outside, observing masking, social distancing rules and guidelines. This all has been great, because it avoids a lot of needless travel time.

Based on your experience, how can attorneys effectively leverage social media to build their practice?

I tend to use LinkedIn. I find it to be an effective tool for sharing articles that I have published, articles I have been quoted in, and things that are important to me that I think would be important to my clients.

Excellent. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Become A Top Lawyer In Your Specific Field of Law?” Please share a story or an example for each.

First thing, love what you do. If you love being a lawyer and practicing in your area of expertise, every day (or, most every day) will be joyful.

Second, be the very best that you can be in your field, which includes trying new approaches and continuing to grow, each and every day.

Third, train, mentor and motivate others on your team to be the very best they can be. Particularly if you are a rainmaker with a large practice, you can’t do this alone. You need a strong team. I’m extremely grateful to have such a fantastic team of lawyers with whom I work. They are all incredibly smart, talented and hard working. I learn new and fresh approaches from them and from seeing cases through their eyes.

Fourth, always give your clients the respect they deserve, always be immediately responsive to a client’s needs. Above all else, listen to them. When I meet with a new client or an existing client with a new matter, I listen before I speak. I find out what their objective is in litigation. Most clients have a very specific business objective, and it’s critical to work through with them what that objective is, because it’s not always immediately apparent to them. Once you do that, it’s easy to reverse engineer from there and figure out the best legal strategy to enable you to meet your client’s objective and get them across the finish line. That’s what winning is all about. It’s not your win — it’s about your client’s win!

Finally, find a work life balance and make sure you never lose sight of the importance of being there for your family. Family is the ultimate support group. Law is a very demanding profession. It’s a give and take. Yes, it’s sensational being a high flying Big Firm lawyer. But, if you don’t have a wonderful family to celebrate with, what’s the point?!

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might see this. :-)

I’m very blessed to have met with most of the people with whom I’d care to meet. Still, I’d welcome sitting down with the Mayor of Los Angeles and/or Governor of California.

I love this city. I was born and raised in Los Angeles. But there is a lot of hurt and dislocation in Los Angeles right now. The homeless problem is out of control. Businesses and individuals have been fleeing California to low or no tax states, like Nevada, Texas and Florida. Crime is on the rise. I, personally, suffered a home invasion. People think twice before driving an expensive car or wearing an expensive watch.

I’ve also seen the evolution of the legal industry here and believe we’re on the cusp of a change. When I was a younger lawyer, Palo Alto/Northern California was number 1, San Diego was no. 2., with Los Angeles a distant third. Today, San Diego is now essentially dead in the tech and legal industries, San Francisco is flat or faltering, and Palo Alto and L.A. are in a dead heat.

It’s my prediction is that in the next 3–5 years, L.A. will take its place as the key and prominent city in California. Here’s why: yes, we have Silicon Beach, where technology has really taken off, already rivaling Palo Alto, but L.A. has something that Palo Alto will never have — sports, media and entertainment! For example, in the music industry, we have the intersection of tech and media content with streaming, and the like. We now have two football teams, two basketball teams, a hockey team, incredible state of the art stadiums like SoFi and Staples (with a new Clippers state of the art stadium on its way), top entertainment companies, top restaurants, finance, technology…you name it. Real estate is off the charts. Year round, what better place in the world is there to live? None.

There is no doubt in my mind, that the future of California is L.A. We just need to clean things up a bit. I’d love to sit down with the Mayor of Los Angeles to talk about my ideas of how to fix L.A., and then take it to the next level.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!

Thank you. I very much enjoyed the opportunity.