Trevor Brown of The Other Therapy On How To Navigate Our Complicated Modern World To Find Love

Set boundaries early on

Intimacy is an ongoing dance between closeness and autonomy. As such, boundaries are a necessary component of long-term intimacy. Boundary-setting early on is going to pay substantial dividends in the future when most couples begin to struggle with emotional fusion and codependent dynamics.

In today’s fast-paced and interconnected world, finding and maintaining meaningful romantic relationships can be a daunting task. From navigating dating apps to managing expectations in a digital age, there are numerous challenges individuals face in their quest for love. Through this series, we would like to explore the complexities of modern dating and relationships, offering insights, advice, and strategies for navigating the often confusing landscape of love in the 21st century. In this series, we are talking to experts in psychology, relationship coaching, sociology, matchmaking, and individuals with personal experiences navigating the modern dating scene, to share their knowledge, perspectives, and stories. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Trevor Brown.

Trevor Brown is an LPC (Licensed Professional Counselor) with advanced training in multiple couples therapy modalities. His private psychotherapy practice helps expats, digital nomads, and other people living unconventional lifestyles navigate the turbulent, rich sphere of modern love. Trevor currently splits time between Colorado and Istanbul, Turkey, where his wife is from. You can find out more about Trevor and his services at www.theothertherapy.org

Thank you so much for your time! I know that you are a very busy person. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us your “Origin Story”? Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?

I am originally from a small town in Colorado called Basalt. My childhood was embarrassingly idyllic. I was surrounded by family and friends, and constantly immersed in sports and mountain activities. I was the type of straight-A student who needed to get A’s or else the world and everything in it would come crashing down. I was a serious soccer player, and I felt an apparent need to be involved in a wide array of clubs and councils.

The thing about small towns is that they do start to feel a bit small after 17 years. When the time for college came, I was determined to find my way out. I ended up at a college in Northern California (Santa Clara) that I chose for the very normal reason that it had the same mascot as my beloved Denver Broncos. From there, I spent a couple of years traveling the globe before getting my MA in Clinical Psychology from a Buddhist-based university in Colorado (Naropa).

Can you tell us a bit about what you do professionally, and what brought you to this specific career path?

I am a therapist, officially an LPC — Licensed Professional Counselor.

I can’t put my finger on exactly when — maybe it was following my mom’s death in 2013 — but I have felt a calling to “grow and develop” as an individual, an urge to deepen my understanding of the human condition, and a longing to contribute to the world in a meaningful way for quite a while.

I initially tried to satisfy this inner calling by working in a handful of startups in my early to mid-twenties. The startups weren’t successful, and the inner calling wasn’t satisfied. After some rough patches, I ultimately applied to Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado to study Clinical Mental Health Counseling.

You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?

1. Unconventional — On the surface, I look and seem rather run-of-the-mill conventional. But that is nothing more than a guise. Underneath, I am continually searching for ways of understanding the world and participating in life that defy stereotypical norms. In my early 20s, for example, I lived in three countries and started three separate businesses. I currently live part-time in Istanbul, Turkey, and work with expats and digital nomads from around the world.
2. Curious — There are so many ways to go through life. I have experimented with many of them. I have tried on different philosophies, committed myself to different beliefs, and explored wildly distinct life paths. This curiosity can be draining, as shiny new objects always seem to promise something extraordinary. But the fruits of this curiosity are many. It is undoubtedly the reason for my ability to connect with people from all walks of life and all parts of the world in meaningful, helpful ways.
3. Kindness — People tend to feel the kindness that I have towards them quite quickly. It is the number one quality I cultivate in myself and instill in the people I work with. My kindness and non-judgment make me safe and approachable. These qualities open the door to conversations and connections that would otherwise not have occurred.

Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?

I am building a business that addresses common relational problems experienced by expats and digital nomads. This represents the convergence of the three most important aspects of my life: my training and work as a psychotherapist, my status as a part-time expat/digital nomad, and my personal experience of love and relationships.

In my experience, it is difficult for people living abroad to get quality, consistent support for their emotional, mental, and relational well-being. Life off the beaten path is a radical departure from the status-quo, and well-intentioned therapists back home struggle to relate. I hope to reach a growing number of location independent persons in need of support as the business grows.

Additionally, I recently started a YouTube channel. It is very much in the beginning stages, but I hope to gradually improve my ability to deliver useful content in a compelling way to a growing number of followers.

If I am able to effectively translate the lessons I have learned as a therapist to a wider number of people, it may prove helpful. I’m not saying that I have all the right answers, but I believe that I can offer a unique perspective for people to put into dialogue with the other views they already hold and find compelling.

For the benefit of our readers, can you briefly tell our readers why you are an authority on the topic of dating and finding love?

As a seasoned couples therapist, I help my clients identify and dissolve their internal barriers to love and intimacy. I have advanced training in multiple couples therapy modalities (PACT, RLT, and Buddhist-based approaches), and I regularly work with couples and individuals on painful and persistent relational issues.

On a personal level, I myself found lasting love in the modern dating scene. It is a somewhat unconventional, surprising love story. Perhaps there will be time to tell it later.

Ok. Thank you for that. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion about ‘How To Navigate Our Complicated Modern World To Find Love’. Based on your experience, what is a common root cause of the “inability to find love”?

The seeming inability to find love has multiple origins. These causes are a product of societal narratives, as well as issues that occur more explicitly at the personal level. Because I am a therapist, I will do stick to individual-level root causes in my analysis.

Many/most people have mixed feelings about intimacy and love. However, people are typically only in touch with the part of them that very much wants intimacy/love. As a result, the other half of them — the half that isn’t so sure about intimacy — gets expressed indirectly. Examples of this include:

• Pulling away from potential partners for relatively insignificant reasons
• Finding unavailable people
• Remaining in “red flag” relationships
• Constantly feeling that there is something/someone better
• Pushing people away
• Holding impossible-to-reach standards

Where does this intimacy-reluctant part of people come from? Well, intimacy is an incredible act of vulnerability. On an intuitive level, we’re aware of the risk involved in giving our hearts to another person. We want love, but we want to avoid pain. The part of us that is suspicious about intimacy simply wants to ensure that we remain safe and invulnerable.

When this aspect of ourselves operates from the shadows, we “mysteriously” end up alone time and again. But what looks like bad luck is actually the product of our unconscious efforts to protect ourselves from hurt.

As individuals come to appreciate the part of them that is understandably hesitant about intimacy, they can navigate potential relationships with increased skill. They can experiment with increasingly healthy, mature ways of protecting themselves from pain. As trust in themselves develops, they can show up more fully in intimacy, significantly enhancing their prospects of finding lasting love.

What are some common misconceptions or myths about finding love in the modern world, and how can they be debunked?

Myth #1) The dating apps want you to find love.

This isn’t such a hot take anymore (dating apps are losing customers by the millions), but I’ll say it anyway: no, they don’t. Dating apps want you to think that they want you to find love. In reality, you finding love means them losing a customer. Their stock prices don’t rise when their customers find the love of their life. Their stock prices rise when the number of people who think they can use the apps to find love increases.

Myth #2) When you find “the one,” you’ll know it.

Not necessarily. A more realistic framing is that you’ll know you’ve found “the one” when you decide they are “the one.” Sometimes, this decision feels like a no-brainer — in these instances, you won’t even be aware of having made a decision. At other times, the decision is more deliberate and intentional. In either case, you choose your person to be your person. They don’t just appear as your person.

Myth #3) The right relationship will feel right all the time.

No, it won’t. Sometimes, it will feel overwhelmingly difficult and decidedly un-right. If your relationship criteria is “it always feel good,” you’re setting yourself up for many disappointing relationships.

Myth #4) There’s something better out there, and I need to find it.

Maybe there’s something better out there, maybe there isn’t. But you don’t need to find it. You don’t need to start swiping after a great date because there might be an even better date just around the corner. The idea that the next one will be the best one is, again, a recipe for many relationships (or many dates), not just one.

Myth #5) All the good ones are taken.

That is highly improbable. If you really believe it, stop dating. Stop trying. But the odds are that you are still dating. So, get clear about your criteria (but don’t set impossible-to-meet criteria), ensure that you yourself are living up to the criteria that you have for a potential partner, find efficient (but not insane) ways to check if a potential date meets your criteria relatively quickly, and keep your head up.

Myth #6) A relationship will solve all of my problems.

Again, if this is your expectation, say goodbye to any hope of a relationship. Relationships — even dream relationships — won’t save us. If we expect them to, we will be disappointed and quick to end potentially positive, meaningful connections before giving them a real chance.

What advice do you have for individuals who feel overwhelmed or disillusioned by the challenges of modern dating, and how can they maintain hope and optimism in their search for love?

I suspect that people will not like my answer.

The truth is that it is very hard to maintain hope and optimism when experience after experience seems to suggest the opposite — namely, that it is impossible to find love and that it will never happen.

My take is that you allow yourself to feel whatever it is that you are feeling. That is, if you feel defeated and pessimistic, let yourself have that experience. BUT, maintain awareness that there is no necessary connection between feelings and behaviors, nor, for that matter, between feelings and reality. In other words, you can feel very pessimistic, but you can still go on dates with an open mind and an open heart. If the date isn’t what you wanted, you won’t be as disappointed as you would have been if you expected the world from it. Likewise, you can feel hopeless, but that doesn’t mean that things are hopeless. Reality is much larger than your subjective, transitory feeling state. And reality itself won’t be influenced by your particular views on it.

As a therapist, I often do the seemingly paradoxical work of helping my clients come to terms with their already-present fear that they will be alone forever. I don’t try to convince them that they won’t be, but I help them learn to tolerate the difficult feelings associated with this idea. In time, people come to accept the challenging feelings they have that are associated with this possibility. They come to recognize that they can have a completely satisfying, rich, nourishing, meaningful life whether they find love or not.

And THIS frequently leads to love. When we give up hope in a mature sense and open to reality as it is, the love that we had said goodbye to mysteriously shows up. Not ALWAYS, of course. (So don’t run off and do this as a tricky, last-ditch attempt to find love.) But, when people feel complete and confident exactly as they are, their neurotic, desperate, unskilled pursuit of love subsides. In its place, a sense of receptivity and openness develops, creating space for the experience of mature, lasting love.

Let’s explore how the rise of social media and dating apps has impacted the way individuals approach and experience dating and relationships. Can you share a few dos and don’ts about how to use social media to find love?

My wife and I connected (well, we actually reconnected after a period of 8 years) over Instagram. If it weren’t for Instagram, we wouldn’t be together. I share this not to dismiss the pitfalls of social media dating but to highlight the potential for genuine, lasting connections. People do find love on social media. It has happened. Unfortunately, many people also do a lot of trying to find love on social media that results in things that definitely are not love.

That said, here are some recommendations:

1. Be friendly. Be warm and kind. Make contact (be it through a comment or a DM) in a friendly manner without setting an expectation that things go anywhere.
2. Appropriate engagement. Don’t flood their inbox with messages. Take it slow. Real love is quite different from the pursuit of immediate gratification.

And here are some don’ts:

1. Don’t make assumptions. Don’t assume anything about this person’s relationship status, interest in a relationship, or interest in you. Whatever you know about them pails compared to what you don’t know. Additionally, whatever you think you know is probably wrong anyway. So, back away from assumptions. Replace them with casual conversation and kind questions aimed at getting to know another person gradually, over time.
2. Don’t project your traumas onto them. Look, this connection (if it even is one yet) may or may not go anywhere. In this world where so many people have experienced hurt on the dating scene, there is a temptation to treat other people in the painful ways that we have been treated. Please, be aware of this tendency in yourself (you’re no saint, you do have it), so that you can keep it in check.

Can you share a few dos and don’ts about how to use dating apps to find love?

Dos:

1. Be authentic, within reason. What I mean by “authenticity” is that you are clear with yourself about what you are looking for, and that you find ways of making that known — gradually, probably — as you date. If asked a question, see what it is like to answer as honestly as possible. Do your best to be you (both in terms of your dating profile and in terms of your in-person engagement with other people), so long as you don’t cross another person’s right to be who they are.
2. If you frequently find yourself “on the apps” (i.e., if you suspect you might be developing an addiction), and if somebody is “good enough” (7/10 across the board, maybe), try pausing the apps for a while. See what it’s like to focus on this one person and resist the tempting idea that “the one” is just one more swipe away.
3. If things are going great and you’re considering deleting the apps, SAVE YOUR CONVERSATION before doing so. It was probably cute and quirky, and you’ll likely want to look at it and laugh together in the future.
4. Be aware of your historical dating style and try to engage in some counter-instinctual behaviors. What I mean is this: frequently, people either fall into the camp of ending things more often than not or of having things ended by the other person more often than not.
5. If you are in the first camp, then, as an experiment, you should see what it is like to push past the initial ick once or twice. Explore smaller boundaries (such as limiting texting, making it explicit that you are continuing to see other people, and only meeting up once a week) versus the one big “let’s call it quits” boundary.
6. If you are in the second camp, then, as an experiment, see what it is like to hold back a little bit. Don’t share the full extent of your enthusiasm. Don’t be the one to make contact first after a date. These aren’t “things you should do,” but they are experiments that will help you widen the range of choices available to you. Actively remind yourself that you don’t need the other person. You’ll survive just fine without them. Play around with the idea that you don’t even want them (even if you do). All of these are ways of keeping in check your tendency to go all in too quickly and to end up pushing the other person away in the process.

Don’ts:

1. Don’t use filters that disguise your actual appearance. This doesn’t do anybody any good, period. At best, you get a date with a soon-to-be very disappointed person. Similarly, don’t use more than one group photo. And don’t overuse photos where your face is so far away that it is impossible to understand what you look like.
2. Don’t convince yourself that this is the ONE person, the ONLY person, and that you ABSOLUTELY NEED this person.
3. Don’t go on the exact dates with different people. Dating isn’t a formula. Let things happen organically.
4. Don’t go home and immediately start swiping after a date you think went well.
5. An obvious one — don’t be a creep. Let’s say you’re a guy interested in a woman: think of a woman you love in a non-sexual way (sister, lifelong friend, cousin, mom if you can’t think of anybody else) and ask yourself, “How would my [sister] feel if she got a message like this? And how would I feel about it if she told me?” If you imagine that her reaction is anything even remotely in the camp of “not good/icky/wouldn’t like it,” don’t do it. Simple.

Can you share a few dos and don’ts about looking for romance in real-life physical spaces like congregations, bars, markets, and conventions?

Dos:

1. Take an easy, casual approach. Don’t expect anything from it — this is the key. If it doesn’t go anywhere (and it probably won’t), at least do what you can to ensure that the person you interacted with will have a pleasant memory (or at least not be traumatized).
2. Take it in stages. Wait to go in for the phone number. Enjoy the in-between — the initial conversation.
3. Find a point of common ground to start the conversation from. The cliche one is, “So, do you come here often?” The more interesting one is, “Who looks like a carrot?” (if you get it, you get it).

Don’ts:

1. Don’t be pushy. Don’t insist. Don’t beg.
2. Don’t act offended if you don’t get the response you were hoping for. This other person doesn’t owe you anything, so don’t act like they do.
3. Don’t not say something. That’s the easy way. But if you’re interested in the person, you’re interested. Find some words and make them come out of your mouth within earshot of the person. Don’t back down, at least not every time.

What are your thoughts about the challenges and opportunities that come with workplace romances?

Studies show that attraction is a function of proximity over time. In other words, the longer you are around somebody, the more likely you are to be attracted to them (and they to you). Therefore, it is almost inevitable that mutual attraction will develop between you and one or more of your coworkers somewhere along the way.

That said, the traditional recommendation is not to date where you work. That’s decent advice, but not the be-all end-all. We all know that dating coworkers is possible. It does happen. Not only that, there are strong arguments in favor of it. For example, the bond shared between coworkers often serves as a ground for empathy and understanding that is otherwise hard to come by. Additionally, you get to see your potential partner as they naturally are with people who are both higher and lower than them in the company hierarchy. This is valuable information.

If and when mutual attraction happens, the critical point is to make sure your decision about what to do next is as conscious and considered as possible.

Take careful note of the potential pitfalls of this going poorly (or, for that matter, of it going well). What are the price tags you might pay? Could it mean losing your job? Could it mean your partner losing theirs? Could it mean being the topic of workplace drama? Could it mean turning other colleagues against you? If it goes poorly, will there be impossible-to-overcome tension between the two of you?

Of course, you and your (potential) partner can and should do what you can to mitigate the price tags. But the more important question is whether you are willing to pay them. If you are, that’s great. You’re prepared to meet your fate, whatever it happens to be. But if you delude yourself into thinking there won’t be price tags, you will be knocked asunder when they inevitably arise.

Once you’ve made note of the potential downsides to the relationship, you can make an adult decision about whether the price tags are worth the benefits.

Two additional pieces of advice:

1. Don’t use your status in the company hierarchy as dating leverage
2. Be very careful about dating above you in the workplace hierarchy

Can you discuss the role of vulnerability and authenticity in forming meaningful connections and finding lasting love?

Without authenticity and vulnerability, you won’t find yourself in a lasting, fulfilling relationship.

Here’s how I see it:

Vulnerability is the ability to stay with your discomfort without impulsively trying to escape it.

and

Authenticity is the willingness to share who you are (not who you think the other person wants you to be).

Let’s begin this discussion by looking more closely at vulnerability.

Here’s the thing: intimacy will bring up vulnerability. That much is inevitable.

As I said above, most of us have contradicting feelings about intimacy. We want it, and we don’t. The part of us that is hesitant about intimacy manifests as vulnerability. We feel a pit in our stomach or a pressure in our chest. We feel embarrassed, afraid, confused, suffocated, anxious, or abandoned.

Needless to say, nobody wants any of those experiences. Accordingly, we resort to habitual escape mechanisms that we employ to distance ourselves from the unwanted and uncomfortable experience of vulnerability.

For instance, you might end things with the person you are dating. In doing so, you escape our vulnerability. If you have a different style, you might try to get the person you are dating to reassure you that they do, in fact, like you (which often ends up pushing them away).

In either case, you are unwilling to stay engaged with your vulnerability, so you behave in ways that damage the relationship’s viability.

A key aspect of intimacy, then, is a willingness to remain with your experience of vulnerability. Indeed, your availability for relationship will expand in proportion to your cultivation of this capacity.

Authenticity is a willingness to share your real self — vulnerabilities and all — within reason and when appropriate.

In the world of dating, we want to put our best foot forward. But our best foot isn’t our real foot. We might make an effort to appear cool and unimpacted, anticipate what the other person needs or wants, or make ourselves out to be whatever our idea of a desirable person is.

All of that will only get you so far. If your partner likes your inauthentic efforts to be who they want you to be, you won’t trust their feelings for you because you’ll know they haven’t seen the “real you.” If they end up rejecting you anyway, then you’ll never know how they would have felt about who you really are.

In many respects, our capacity for authenticity hinges on our ability to experience rejection without losing our self-esteem. If you can hold yourself in high regard while experiencing loss, then there will be very little barrier between your authentic self and the self you choose to share with the world.

And if this is hard for you (as it is for many people), you don’t have to worry. If you’re with the other person long enough, then eventually, one way or another, your authentic self will come out. When your vulnerabilities are truly triggered, you won’t be able to help but be authentic (and it probably won’t look pretty).

The key, then, is to be skillfully authentic ahead of time. Share your feelings, voice your concerns, make requests about what matters to you, seek clarification when confused, and own your vulnerabilities.

Based on your experience or research, what are the “Five Things You Need To Navigate Our Complicated Modern World To Find Love”?

1. An awareness that you don’t need this person in order for you to be happy

When we convince ourselves that another person is the key to our happiness, we will end up in a pretty desperate situation. We will accept relationships that are not right for us, or we will end relationships that could have been great because they made us momentarily unhappy.

2. A willingness to tolerate discomfort

The longer we are in a relationship, the more it is guaranteed to activate life-long vulnerabilities. We all experience vulnerability as discomfort. Therefore, if we are unwilling to feel uncomfortable, we will jump from one relationship to the next the moment discomfort inevitably arises.

3. Don’t paint over red flags (trust yourself when you see them)

When we paint over red flags out of a desperate yearning for intimacy, we end up in relationships that are all but guaranteed to have an expiration date on them. Accepting red flags for what they are means ending relationships early. That is painful, yes, but less painful than the alternative.

4. Increase your willingness to tolerate feelings of aloneness

When we are happy with ourselves, we are more likely to accept relationships that genuinely make us happier. In this way, being comfortable on our own now is a cornerstone of healthy intimacy later.

5. Set boundaries early on

Intimacy is an ongoing dance between closeness and autonomy. As such, boundaries are a necessary component of long-term intimacy. Boundary-setting early on is going to pay substantial dividends in the future when most couples begin to struggle with emotional fusion and codependent dynamics.

Extra tips:

• Strive to be like the person you’re looking for
• Keep your ‘grass is always greener’ mentality in check
• Ask yourself if you would like to put personal integrity or relationship as a higher priority

Do you have any favorite books, podcasts, or resources related to this topic that you would recommend to our readers?

• Already Free by Bruce Tift
• Terry Real books and podcasts

You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

The “Keep Our Hearts Open” movement. The key to keeping our hearts open to the world is rooted in owning our triggers, taking responsibility for our vulnerabilities, not blaming others for our difficult feelings, taking good care of ourselves, protecting ourselves in mature/respectful/empowered ways, receiving people as they are, and practicing an attitude of kindness towards whatever happens to come our way (internal and external).

How can our readers further follow your work online?

They can visit my website at www.theothertherapy.org

They can also follow my instagram account @other_therapy

And my newly created Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9Th15mptNYiB7KR8ZZWBdw

Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!