Wisdom From The Women Leading the Wine & Spirits Industries, with Katie Brightside and Sarah L.M. Mengoni

An interview with Kelly Reeves

Learn from everyone, not just traditional teachers and leaders. Barbacks and prep cooks have plenty of knowledge, too.

Less than 20% of winemakers and distillers are women. Traditionally, women were excluded from these industries. This number is slowly rising as more women choose to study this profession and enter the wine and spirits fields. What is it like for those women who work in this male-dominated industry? What are some of the challenges that these women face? Is there hope for better representation, and better wages, for women in the wine and spirits industry? As a part of our series about women leading the wine and spirits industries, we had the pleasure of interviewing Katie Brightside and Sarah L.M. Mengoni.

“Once Upon a Cocktail” is gearing up to honor women in March with an event on International Women’s Day, March 8th, and on National Cocktail Day, March 24th. We sat down with Founder Katie Brightside to learn more about the dynamic duo — including partner Sarah L.M. Mengoni — behind this female-founded company and their signature book.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to get to know you a bit. Can you tell us a bit about your origin story, and your childhood?

Sarah: I spent my formative years in Detroit. My dad went to art school at Wayne State University where we lived in graduate student housing. With the guidance of my wonderful parents, I was exposed to lots of diversity — attending school with kids from all economic backgrounds, living among kids from all over the world, attending early pride parades and various cultural events, spending time at the Detroit institute of arts, listening to live music. I learned to love cities and all they have to offer during those young years.

Katie: I was born in a town in the UK called Swindon, today the population is 230K people and is on the commuter train track to London. The town is sandwiched between Bath and Oxford. Swindon features in namesake in the British version of The Office and its American adaptation draws parallels to Scranton, Pennsylvania. Hence, Swindon is usually the butt everyone’s jokes. When I left for University in 1999, I thought I left that concrete jungle behind me, alas after living in four countries I spend more time saying I’m from Swindon than I would like.

I was pretty young when I mentally packed my bags. It was a humble beginning and one my character needed. If I had been born to a bright light city with the hustle and bustle of learning, I don’t know whether I would be sitting here now. It’s that “this can’t be my life” rocket fuel that launched my ship. However, it’s my parents’ eternal support of my dreams and finding a way financially to indulge my ambitions that I’m grateful for. For example, they paid for singing lessons for ten years (bless them) and I still sound like a strangled cat. Don’t even get started on my piano playing! I was thirteen when I understood I could not bank on a career on the stage, as a lover of dress-up I switched my attention to Fashion. I successfully worked in the fashion industry for eleven years before obtaining a Masters in Fine Art. Shortly after graduating, I came to America and worked in Interior Design as an illustrative wallpaper designer and mural painter. I would also do any work that came my way, and for a while I designed restaurant menus and worked on hospitality branding. It was this thread of experience that led to the concept of Once Upon a Cocktail, a woven road I have monumental gratitude for.

Can you tell us the “backstory” about what brought you to the spirits industry?

Sarah: I got my start bartending in Michigan, but it was in Chicago that I fell into the craft cocktail world. I was lucky enough to have some great mentorship there, and to work for a company (Kimpton) that was a leader in bar programming in hotels, and provided or paid for all the spirits, cocktail, and other bar-related education I could ask for. It was there I had my first leadership role in a bar, as a Lead Bartender. It was a role that I loved, and so I held it for many years over three additional Kimpton brands after moving to Los Angeles. I eventually started developing cocktails for national campaigns, traveling to open new bars, and helping to organize the beverage side of events. I now work openings, events, and help with national campaigns as a consultant for Kimpton and its parent company, InterContinental Hotel Group. In 2019 I passed the BAR 5 Day, a top certification for beverage professionals, and in 2023 I was accepted as a Tales of the Cocktail Cocktail Apprentice.

Katie: I’m learning the liquor industry on the fly, so forgive me if I don’t answer most of these questions. Thank goodness I have my booze bible Sarah on hand to answer.

However, my first collaboration with a spirit company was at the aMBUSH Gallery in Sydney, Australia on Valentine’s Day 2012, for My Fairytale Perspective on Love solo art exhibition.The opening night was an extravaganza with various activations around my artwork’s romance theme, including a Love Potion cocktail served from a caldron sponsored by Green Tree Absinth Fairy. In exchange for their generous donation I wove their Green Fairy logo into an illustration featured in the show.

It wasn’t until 2018 and the noodling of Once Upon a Cocktail did I tiptoe back into this field. After another break, was really in 2021 when this project was green lit, I began the thirst for more knowledge to help make this project the best it could be. I’ve a long way to go but my five senses are always ready to feast and absorb.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your journey? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

Sarah: There are so many interesting stories! I’ve met celebrities who have been amazing and celebrities who have been rude. I’ve had a knife held to my throat and I’ve experienced incredible acts of kindness. I’ve encountered sexism and have had generous teachers. I’ve been privileged to mentor hard-working, talented people, and have struggled with employees. I came into this industry believing you should show kindness to everyone, that a bit of understanding could melt even the grouchiest grouch. I still believe that fully. My many experiences over many years have taught me that it is also important to protect your people, and to build up the community. The food and beverage world is so special in the way we’re interconnected, we need to be continuously inviting new people in, sharing our passion, encouraging theirs. Every new face makes us better.

Katie: Trust in divine time, things will happen when they are supposed to. When you submit or let go of urgency, the frustration simmers, and the universe opens up and allows the magic to flow in. For example, I was worried about the future of the book. That day was one of those days where I just hid under the duvet. My dear friend Jessica (who is a huge part of my support team) reminded me that I always have these super low days, then a miracle happens in 24 hours and it’s a life game changer. Low and behold I wake the following morning to two amazing emails. One of which is from an ambassador of a well known liquor brand. Kristin had received a call from her CEO raving about the book and asked her how he and the brand can help me make the book a success. I basically cried with joy and told Jessica she is now my oracle. This is an example of letting things go, I did that day from the bed, I moved through my frustration and was rewarded with a compliment that meant the world to me. I was honored with my book and my name was being talked about by industry peers. That’s all I need to put a spring back in my step.

It has been said that sometimes our mistakes can be our greatest teachers. Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

Sarah: I’m so mortified when I make mistakes, I think I block them out so I can move on! However, I do remember a time when I was “staging”, basically working an internship at one of the busiest (and best) cocktail bars in Chicago so that I could learn from what they were doing. I got a server ticket for a tequila served neat. No biggie. I grabbed the bottle, poured it, and the server took it away. The Lead Bartender came over to check on what I was doing, looked at the ticket, asked what I had poured, grabbed a bottle, and sprinted across the restaurant. It turns out that the distiller of that tequila was in the restaurant with co-workers. The tequila they’d ordered was a special bottle, not the one that I was familiar with. All I’d paid attention to was the brand, ignoring the rest of the name. Luckily the Lead Bartender saved the day, and he was kind to me regarding my mistake. Lesson learned, anytime you see words you don’t understand, ask somebody what they mean. And READ THE WHOLE TICKET!

Katie: I don’t recall any of my mistakes ever being funny. I wish I could think of one that was. Below is an example of a mistake with significant impact on the book’s final creation and how it did make it better.

Once Upon a Cocktail was a rollercoaster of insanity and I had huge funding wins and losses. On the latter, I was promised 35k and for six months of invoices being in an inbox and assured the money was secured, I never saw it. Sarah and I spend both time and a pretty penny according to that shady deal. This was a mistake on my part and I take full responsibility and ramifications of proceeding without the mula in the bank account. However, the divine step in a different way, as somehow this book needed the illusion of the deal to become the beast that it did with 54 venues included. Without the intention of funding we would have created something inferior. I do have gratitude that I took the risk and maybe, just maybe, it will financially pay off.

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?

Sarah: There was a point in my bartending journey when I decided I wanted to become a professional behind the bar, instead of somebody who bartended to support other goals. A friend urged me to interview at the restaurant she worked at in Downtown Chicago, and I got the job. I was very fortunate that this restaurant was run by Bob Bracy. He was passionate about food and beverage, and shared that passion by bringing in wine reps to talk to us, inviting us to all kinds of tastings, and taking us out to other restaurants and bars to see what they were offering and how they did things. It was Bob who saw how interested and engaged I was, and gave me my first Lead Bartender role. His generosity with his knowledge and encouragement were pivotal in developing my career.

Katie: I have a lot of people to thank, who have got me to this point. All important at the same time. However, the main catalyst that made me see I had potential as an artist was Eddie Zammit the founder of the Australian magazine T-world. Eddie is a formidable talent finder and creative genius himself. He encouraged me to follow my dreams at a time I felt trapped in a full time job with a mortgage. What transpired in a matter of 18 months was a legendary solo art exhibition where 1000 people attended the opening night. Literally two months later, I quit my job, sold my apartment and took myself back to London to do a MA in Fine Art. Just to note, I took another risk, I hadn’t got onto a course at that stage, it didn’t take long and within a month back in the UK I was accepted onto the MA program at Central Saint Martin’s. Bingo! Sometimes you need to take advice from a peer who knows what they are talking about! Thank you Eddie x

You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?

Sarah:

Curiosity: Being curious has always driven me in everything I do. The bar world supplies a never-ending well of things to learn about. This has both kept me engaged and driven my career as my thirst for teachers introduces me to many people, adds certifications to my resume, and my increased knowledge makes me more valuable.

Resilience: I have experienced times in my career where I felt like I was being ignored, undervalued, or pushed out. I’m resilient though, and keep putting one foot in front of the other no matter how discouraged I am at the moment. Each time I come out the other end with new opportunities.

Kindness: I actively try to recognize when others may be feeling uncomfortable, and do what it takes, whether it’s pulling them into a conversation, giving them an out from an activity, or befriending them in a room full of strangers, to help them feel at ease. Though I know I miss the mark sometimes, more often it earns me friends and supporters from all echelons of the industry.

Katie:

Creativity: I have this in abundance, to the point, I need to stop thinking. For example, it was November 2019. I had worked the whole year. I took a day off. After a meditation, my phone rang, it was an interior designer offering me a mural job. Within 24 hours this project inspired a whole new company.

Determination: When I start something no matter how long it takes I will finish it, and it will be better than expected. When I was in the middle of illustrating 850+ drawings for the book. The only thing that kept me going was the finish line. It took a huge toll on my physical and mental health, month after month, day after day, hour after hour, but I knew at one point the cycle would end and I would have created something beautiful.

Persistence: never taking no for an answer, pivot the question you are asking until you get the desired outcome. For example, today I got a rejection from a bookstore. It was very kind of the man to respond (most don’t) He wrote a lovely rejection letter, and I’m not being sarcastic. I responded, thanking him for his time and his consideration, however I proposed that in the future if our book was to obtain a recognizable award would he reconsider and maybe showcase the book in store? Now to win an award! TBC…

Are you working on any new or exciting projects now? How do you think that will help people?

Sarah: I’ll let Katie answer this, as she is the Imagineer!

Katie: I am working on a pitch for the Once Upon a Cocktail — West Hollywood TV show. The concept behind the show tells the story of how the book was created and the people we met along the way. It will help give the viewer an insight into the history of the city’s creation and the bars/bartenders that now shine within it. This blends nicely into a mixology competition, and we have started the talks with Tales of the Cocktail to partner with them. We would love to do another book, as we want to build a series. The second one perhaps featuring Las Vegas or Hawaii, and the following third book featuring rival cities such as Melbourne vs Sydney. That said, we’re open to any city that wants to put money into a book. We believe that all cities have stories to tell through their bars and restaurants, and we’d love to be the ones to tell them.

Despite great progress that has been made we still have a lot more work to do to achieve gender parity in this industry. In your opinion or experience, what 3 things can be done by a)individuals b)companies and/or c) society as a whole to support greater gender parity moving forward?

Sarah:

Engage: We need to be sure that we’re offering opportunities to women, even when they’re not the loudest voice in the room.

Recognition: Celebrating the women who have and are having an impact on the industry encourages other women to be active and have their own impact.

Equal pay: The wage gap between the genders shows that women continue to be valued less than their male counterparts. Hiring managers and those making pay decisions should remain vigilant so they don’t unintentionally send this message.

You are a “Wine and Spirits Insider”. If you had to advise someone about 5 non-intuitive things one should know to succeed in the wine and spirits industry, what would you say? Can you please give a story or an example for each?

Sarah:

1. Bartenders should investigate body mechanics and use them to protect their bodies from the many injuries that result from repetitive motion and lifting. These injuries are so common in bartenders and can be career ending.
2. Learn from everyone, not just traditional teachers and leaders. Barbacks and prep cooks have plenty of knowledge, too.
3. Take your vitamins and don’t drink alcohol if your body/mind needs a break. It’s very easy to over-do it in our industry.
4. Have a hobby that is unrelated to food and beverage. It’s good to escape the bubble sometimes, and varied experiences make us more creative.
5. Always take a meeting. If somebody approaches you about a job or other opportunity, take the meeting. Even if you have only the slightest glimmer of interest, or you’re sure they don’t pay enough, you don’t really know the possibilities until you’ve heard them out. Besides, every interview and meeting is practice for the big one.

Can you share 3 things that most excite you about the industry?

Sarah:

1. New products continuously coming into the market from cultures near and far.
2. There has been a widespread raising of standards behind the bar. The use of high quality distillates and fresh ingredients as well as product knowledge have all increased in the past twenty years. I’m eager to watch this trend continue.
3. The increasing diversity in leadership roles. There’s been a dramatic change over the last five years, this is another trend that I’m eager to watch continue.

Can you share 3 things that most concern you about the industry? If you had the ability to implement 3 ways to reform or improve the industry, what would you suggest?

Sarah:

1. Tipping structure is problematic. Traditional tipping helps encourage what often resembles a caste structure in restaurants and creates divisions between back and front of house. Though I recognize that every system has its problems, I prefer it when the whole house shares tips.
2. There has always been a tendency to give too much power and lee-way to our guests. Yes, we are here to serve them, and should do all we can to create great experiences, which does include kindly dealing with guests who are grumpy or difficult. That said, our guests have a responsibility to behave well, and treating staff poorly or making other guests feel uncomfortable should never be ok, regardless of who they are or how much they’re spending. Staff should always be listened to when they express discomfort with any guest.
3. There is much smoke and mirrors around the methods, ingredients, and labor used in spirits production around the world. To ensure that disreputable practices aren’t sliding under the radar we all need to read between lines, ask questions, and keep reminding each other of the importance of transparency.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

Sarah: Fake it ’til you make it. I apply this broadly. Bigger picture it’s what I tell myself when imposter syndrome looms large. Equally as relevant is that it is what I tell myself when I’m hungover on a workday and can’t let it show.

Katie: In opposition to my collaborator, I believe in being your authentic self, I can never apologize for being that. We all have our ways to maneuver this world but in my experience to trust your gut and follow your intuition reaps the best rewards. It has taught me to not double guess myself or to push against my divine will. Everytime I force something, it blows up in my face. An example of this is, it was a few years ago when I’d been really working on being my authentic self at all times, raw, open and honest, it was a client, I felt icky, my gut was yelling and waving to not do that project, other peers had convinced me it would be good for my career, so I sucked it up, glossed over my feeling and faked it till I convinced myself it was a good idea to work with this person.I ended up losing time, money and the project never landed after it was completed, and worst of all it just died and never launched. After several episodes of situations like this I only trust the process, my feelings and I know wholeheartedly I won’t live in regret and disappointment.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the greatest amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

Sarah: I’d like to see a change in the way many people view homelessness and the homeless. I’ve had my own experiences with homelessness and poverty, experiences that have brought me into contact with fellow humans that are in much worse positions, much deeper pits, than I ever have been or ever will be. I learn even more from the work I do as a board member for a non-profit serving the homeless and underhoused population of Detroit. There are common fallacies that I would love to see dispelled.

Wearing nice clothes does not indicate that someone is being deceitful about their situation. Often people who are in need get clothes that have been donated to various organizations, and sometimes people donate really nice things.

Rejecting food does not mean that someone isn’t hungry. Being poor doesn’t mean that people don’t have allergies, restrictions, and preferences just like the rest of the population. What it does mean is that they have all that normal stuff, AND are likely to have lots of dental problems meaning they can only eat soft food.

It’s very hard to stay off drugs when you live on the street. It’s much easier to quit using when you have a home, food, and security. For this reason housing for the homeless shouldn’t be predicated on people taking clean drug tests.

Thanks for the opportunity to say all of this!!

Katie: I have this idea to start an arts council or guild, where creatives can come for support, me being me, I would want it to be world accessible and country specific, like an embassy for musicians, artists and designers. It can be really hard to live a creative life and I’m not the only one who finds conflicting advice. It would house departments like IP lawyers, mental health practitioners, self care classes, drug and alcohol rehabilitation, tax guidance, information on how to set up a company and the steps you need to take, how to charge a design fee, marketing your work, and the list goes on. The idea is not to have a center to be creative, it’s for all the other questions and basic needs to have a fruitful career. I personally feel guilty to complain about creating art or to say how overwhelmed I feel, especially when there are issues like Sarah mentioned. However, some creatives are only a step or two away from hardship. It would maybe prevent that, while uniting a hub of people that can connect and grow together. This idea might be utopian but we should never lose sight of our dreams because we don’t have the tools or support system!

Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you only continued success!