Women In Wellness: Gayle MacBride Of Veritas Psychology Partners On The Five Lifestyle Tweaks That Will Help Support People’s Journey Towards Better Wellbeing

An Interview With Wanda Malhotra

No one can prepare you for how much work this is going to be. If you had asked me last year if I thought starting a business from the ground up would be a time-consuming challenge, I would have said, “Oh, I know.” Now a year into it, I can tell you that it is even more work than I imagined. We are learning all kinds of details and nuances that I could never have imagined or anticipated. I called my local ethics board for a simple consult, about an idea that might conflict with the ethical code, and walked away with a whole new understanding about another conundrum that wasn’t really the question that I called about!

Today, more than ever, wellness is at the forefront of societal discussions. From mental health to physical well-being, women are making significant strides in bringing about change, introducing innovative solutions, and setting new standards. Despite facing unique challenges, they break barriers, inspire communities, and are reshaping the very definition of health and wellness. In this series called women in wellness we are talking to women doctors, nurses, nutritionists, therapists, fitness trainers, researchers, health experts, coaches, and other wellness professionals to share their stories and insights. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Gayle MacBride, PhD, LP.

Gayle MacBride, Ph.D., LP, is a licensed clinical psychologist with over twenty years of experience that ranges from working at a state hospital, the Department of Veterans Affairs, teaching graduate psychology classes, working in a large primary care setting, and recently co-founding a telehealth private practice: Veritas Psychology Partners. Dr. MacBride offers a straightforward, honest approach to working on the things that keep us up at night, which include insomnia, trauma, anxiety, relationship issues, and work stressors. In addition to all the above, she is a wife and a boy-mom of two teens.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Our readers would love to “get to know you” better. Can you share your “backstory” with us?

I grew up in a fairly small town in Michigan, just outside of Ann Arbor, where I was very lucky to have amazing female role models. I had a strong working mother who encouraged me to value myself and to spend time with others who were able to show up in my life the way I needed them to. I’m sure she got this from her mother, who was another fantastic role model for me. Grandma was working as a nurse in the 1940s and I always admired how she valued her career and balanced her family life. My “women in wellness” roots run deep.

We moved to a new home when I was about 8 years old. I didn’t know it then, but I was only about a year away from meeting the person who would later become my husband. To be fair, we didn’t even figure that out for another 16 years. Before falling in love with him, I fell in love with psychology. I took my first course in High School and from then on, I would tell people that when I “grew up” I was going to be a psychologist.

I attended Eastern Michigan University and again the power of women surrounded me. My mom introduced me to the another amazing woman who was the lead administrative support staff person in the Department of History and Philosophy. I loved working with Nancy, she taught me more about being a strong woman in an academic setting and she helped me learn valuable life skills, including speaking up for my value. I later attended the University of Toledo for my graduate degree. My mentor there really encouraged “curiosity”, which included being curious about clients and my own experiences. He planted the seed that blossomed into what I now refer to as my “yes, and…” response. Even 20 years later I still hear Dr. Bullock in my head daily. This attitude has resulted in my working in everything from state-run psychiatric facilities, the Department of Veteran Affairs, a primary care health clinic, and now being the CEO of my own private practice.

As I have moved around or started each of these new adventures, I have been fortunate enough to have a best friend and mate by my side. Together we have enjoyed many adventures, the wildest of which is raising two children! The whole family enjoys traveling, but on my own I really enjoy creative endeavors. Right now, I’m learning how to throw pottery on a wheel and maybe it’s cliché, but I’m also trying to improve my Pickleball game.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career? What were the main lessons or takeaways from that story?

I have spent much of my career working for organizations, never for myself. Frankly, I thought that wasn’t something that would interest me. Last year, my friend and colleague started talking about starting a private practice. Suddenly this sounded like something that I wanted to consider too. This opportunity came at the time with the right person, together we have built something that we are proud of. There have recently been big changes in how clients can access care. In 2020 telehealth changed therapy service delivery in profound ways, including the adoption of PsyPact. This is an interstate agreement that makes providing telepsychology across state lines much easier. We decided to build a private practice with wide access across the US (as of this writing, it includes 39 states, soon to be 40). I’m now getting new opportunities to stretch myself and my skills. In less than a year my business partner, our spouses, and myself have conceived, designed, and brought to fruition this private practice. With this new adventure have come several interesting challenges, the most recent of which is the launch of a new podcast (Veritas Views). This is, again, not something I thought I wanted to do, but today I find myself eager to see it go out into the world starting on February 14, 2024. I am grateful for the help we received along the way from family and friends. The biggest lesson in all of this for me is to never say “never” to something. Just because it doesn’t sound like something you want today, it might be “just right” another day. Sometimes it just takes the right people, at the right time, in the right place. Ha, as I write the previous line, I’m realizing that it’s simply taking my therapeutic advice. I tell my clients all the time, the key to helpful therapy is just that: being in the right place, with the right person, at the right time.

It has been said that our mistakes can be our greatest teachers. Can you share a story about a mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

When I first started working as a psychologist I was in a position where there was quite a bit of work to be done, including revamping programming for a state hospital program and its patients. At that same time, my husband was in graduate school, and we didn’t have kids yet, so it was easy to work lots of hours. I gave a lot of myself and my time to my job during that period and didn’t question it. I’m sure it also had a lot to do with living in a place where we didn’t have family and my friends were all people I’d met through work. The work-life balance was not so balanced. The impact of this started to show up at home and I had some work to do to become a better spouse. I was fortunate to have some very honest and actionable feedback from my husband. These are lessons I carry with me today as I approach 22 years married. The biggest lesson is learning the value of being a bit stricter about my work hours and keeping good boundaries around my personal time. We both are clear about broad and daily expectations about work and communicate clearly when there are changes to the plan. I also weigh very carefully if I’m changing the plan and remind myself that I don’t need to justify leaving on time and shouldn’t feel compelled to stay longer, much of what I do can wait for the next day. It’s no longer, “I must stay late for work”, it’s “I shouldn’t be late (for my family)”. As a result, even with my own business I’m careful about the time I spend and make sure that I carve out time for the rest of my life. I think American culture is built to value work and productivity. I love my work and I like success as much as the next person, but I don’t think that should come at the high price we are sometimes asked or expected to pay. (By the way, this was later reinforced when a family member was telling us about vacation policies in their company — the European arm of this company had very different expectations around holiday/vacation time than the US employees. The difference was that the Europeans were expected to take their time off during the year and if they didn’t, the company took steps to ensure they had scheduled time away from work. These same steps were not taken for the US employees. Fascinating.)

Let’s jump to our main focus. When it comes to health and wellness, how is the work you are doing helping to make a bigger impact in the world?

I’m a psychologist and while the stigma around mental health has been receding over the decades, since 2020 and the pandemic, it’s just been an exploding need. As a therapist, I have been helping people understand that “it is ok to not be ok” and how to process that. I have advanced training in both trauma and sleep/insomnia, and these are two areas that are often unaddressed (and interconnected), or people had no idea were even treatable. My philosophy of working with clients is to “help you be the best version of you.” This mission lets me partner with clients on their personal goals in a way that helps them show up in their own lives. I believe this has a “ripple effect” in the world and would mean that the work I do impacts more than just the people who meet with me in my office. When we do good work, it means that my clients can show up in stronger ways for their families, co-workers, and friends. Sometimes it also paves the way for someone they care about to get mental health help.

Can you share your top five “lifestyle tweaks” that you believe will help support people’s journey towards better wellbeing?

1 . Boundaries — be willing to say “no”. One day while in college, I was in a professor’s office and I saw a notecard taped to the wall just above the phone on her desk and on it was written the word “No”. I asked her why it was there, she told me that she needed the reminder that it was okay to say “no.” Here was a brilliant historian and senior faculty member who struggled to remember her ability to establish and enforce her boundaries. I know that’s not a popular word and it worries some people, but honestly, saying “no” or choosing to not include someone can be the kindest thing you do. Overpromising your time or abilities or including someone who doesn’t fit in a situation can only make it awkward for that other person. Setting boundaries is knowing your limits and remembering that if you want others to value those limits, then you must show them how. I can still see those two simple letters, handwritten in red, on that white 3x5 card, taped to the light green tile on the wall, and it reminds me of that, even as a seasoned psychologist, I have to remember to follow my advice and be able to say “No”.

2 . Learn something new every day. This was a foundational lesson from my grandmother. She used to remind me that learning daily was important, even for her. Today, when my family gathers for a meal at the dinner table, one of the questions we all answer is “What was an opportunity I had today?” Sometimes it’s hard to see the opportunities that present themselves in our busy days, but this moment to pause, reflect, and share has become a vital part of evening meals. Thanks, Grandma. Being open to learning and embracing opportunities to evolve is not only good for your mindset, but it’s also good for your brain health. Mindset training is all about looking for opportunities and using your resources in a way that supports gratitude and positivity. This skill avoids going overboard with positivity because it acknowledges that things don’t always go right, but we have an opportunity to learn and do differently next time and be that much more prepared. It’s this learning and active experiencing in the world that is ultimately important for good brain health throughout our lifetimes. This is something that I bring to my professional practice, but it’s really a lesson that I learn when I was quite young.

3 . Unlearn perfectionism. I took this tweak so far as to ask, nay beg, for the coffee mug that now sits on my desk in my office. It reads, “World’s Okayest Psychologist”. It’s a great reminder that I’m here to help this person to the best of my ability. They don’t need the “World’s Greatest Psychologist”, they just need a good one. If you are striving for perfection, you are not likely to achieve it, but you are likely to face a lot of disappointment. Let’s face it, I completed a lot of schooling. I used to tell my kids that I finished when I was in 21st grade. I’m used to good grades and high achievement. I didn’t have a great relationship with not being good at stuff. So, I got skilled at avoiding things that I wasn’t good at. Then I realized that being willing to show up and “not being the best” is far more fun than only doing the things you are good at. This lets me take the pressure off myself and I think I’m an even better psychologist when I’m not trying to be the “best” (besides, there’s only one of those anyway and it’s probably someone like Aaron Beck or someone truly famous, not little old me).

4 . Take the time to be clear about your personal values. I used to think values were a long list of things that we work on or toward until we die. Now I think that is only part of the story. Taking the time to be clear on the one or two guiding principles of your life will help guide you and your decision-making. It can provide you with a lot of clarity in all aspects and roles in your life. I’m the person who does all the painting in the house. I find it a great time to work through something in my head. A few years ago, I was challenged with the idea that values could be summarized in a word or two. At first, I mentally resisted (this can be a common trap for me), but since I had the time to paint and think I figured it wouldn’t hurt to do this exercise. This was during the pandemic, and we were all having a lot of change. Being clear about this helped me to realize my values had an interesting thread through my backstory and began to give me a sharper lens to understand my successes as well as the things I find challenging, frustrating, or rewarding.

5 . “20 seconds of insane courage” is the line that Matt Damon delivers in the movie We Bought a Zoo. This is a great way to think about managing some of the things that scare us. I keep this in mind when I’m about to do something that takes me out of my comfort zone. For me, this “life tweak” is related to getting out of my way with perfectionism and comparison. It might not look like it, but putting yourself out there on something like a podcast or social media is an act of courage for me. There’s always a risk that people won’t like it, or it will receive negative feedback. I remind myself that it just takes a few seconds of courage to start recording and then I’m lost in the topic and the worry melts into the background.

If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of wellness to the most amount of people, what would that be?

If I were able to influence the world and bring only one wellness concept to people, it would have to be the idea that we are all doing the best we can. There are so many people who kick and argue with me about this, but those are the people who are probably their own harshest (and likely most unfair) critics. I think if we could embrace the idea that we are doing our best all the time, we could all start being satisfied with “really good” instead of perfection. This does not mean that we are doing “the best there is” or that we shouldn’t strive to learn more and do better. It just means that in that moment, given those circumstances, resources, whatever, we did the best we were able. We would start giving grace to others when they fail or make a mistake. We’d likely be kinder teachers when correcting those mistakes. I think we hold on to the belief “I could’a done better” because of the mistaken belief that self-talk like that keeps our drive alive and that’s what pushes us to learn more, strive harder, etc. I think it does the opposite, it creates negativity and results in people walking away or avoiding failure, rather than learning how to handle it. I think changing our view around this would significantly decrease our stress response and have a huge direct and indirect impact on physical and mental health.

What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started” and why?

1. Boundaries are important and compartmentalization is hard. I wish someone would have told me just how hard it can be to separate your therapist opinion/response from your friend or family member response. It can be a real challenge to make sure I walk the right side of this line, but I think it’s also common for others to not realize that this line even exists. Normally I don’t mind and it works out ok because my reactions, recommendations, or responses would be the same (I’m forever telling my clients, “This is what I would recommend if we were family”). However, there are times when I just need that moment to be someone other than a therapist with the answers.
2. Don’t be like everyone else, be like you. Dolly Parton said, “Figure out who you are and do it on purpose.” Brilliant! You spend years in training trying to figure out how to do this job and you are taught how to use the techniques established by the “great” psychologists. You spend so much time finding a style and therapy voice that works for you that it can be easy to forget that you must shine through also. I have an energetic style that comes with a sometimes-flippant sense of humor and sometimes cussing. This works for me, I think it makes me more relatable and approachable, which is critical if you are going to trust me to help with some of the hardest things you have ever dealt with.
3. Hearing and responding to negative feedback will always be just plain hard. Like most of us, I want to be well-liked and don’t want to hurt anyone. Like many of us, I occasionally am presented with criticisms, and they still sting. I used to think that I would get good and graceful at dealing with those times. Nope, they still make me anxious. I watch others respond in poignant ways with respect or even humor. I wish I had that skill. I do have a genuine willingness to do better next time. Now I think that it is ok that this is hard, it’s the flip side of my empathy.
4. I can run my own company. To be honest, being CEO is always something that I thought other people did. It seemed daunting to me. Last year, this opportunity presented itself and I realized that there was no reason that Co-Owner and CEO couldn’t be a title I held, in addition to Psychologist. I’m enjoying the new challenges and am getting to meet some wonderful new people that I wouldn’t have if I had just stayed in my bubble.
5. No one can prepare you for how much work this is going to be. If you had asked me last year if I thought starting a business from the ground up would be a time-consuming challenge, I would have said, “Oh, I know.” Now a year into it, I can tell you that it is even more work than I imagined. We are learning all kinds of details and nuances that I could never have imagined or anticipated. I called my local ethics board for a simple consult, about an idea that might conflict with the ethical code, and walked away with a whole new understanding about another conundrum that wasn’t really the question that I called about!

Sustainability, veganism, mental health, and environmental changes are big topics at the moment. Which one of these causes is dearest to you, and why?

I’m a psychologist, so I feel like I’m supposed to say mental health is dearest to me. Obviously, that’s on my mind a lot and it’s a passion of mine. Despite this, I’m going to say “sustainability” is the topic on this list that is dearest to my heart right now because I don’t think we can have stable mental health without sustainability. Caring about sustainability is critical to supporting positive mental health. For example, mental health providers encourage people to get outside for fresh air and sunlight, but without sustainability efforts, we suffer in terms of poor air quality. With global temperatures rising, I also fear we’ll see an increase in aggression and tension (we have research data to suggest that violence in our communities rises with the thermometer outside). Without sustainability of the natural environment, we then face agriculture concerns. This isn’t new, in 400 BCE Hippocrates was suggesting we’d be best served to: “let food be your medicine and medicine be your food.” One of the least invasive things we can do is eat the right things to support positive mental health. First are going to have to address sustainability to grow or produce that food and then we must make sure everyone has equitable access to those foods. Sustainability impacts the water scarcity concerns that we are facing, even in the US. Currently, water changes in the southwest are creating significant anxiety and will have an impact on cultural identity. We don’t just need water to live, but there are important cultural connections to the water. Without secure access to water, we will see a deterioration in mental health. We must leave something better than we found it. This goes for the environment too. We must think ahead to the world that the children will be responsible for and do what we can now to make that future one they are proud of, but also one that doesn’t cause them undo stress.

What is the best way for our readers to further follow your work online?

Find me at my website www.VeritasPP.com where you can find my blog, links to my social accounts, and my podcast!

Thank you for these fantastic insights! We wish you continued success and good health.

About the Interviewer: Wanda Malhotra is a wellness entrepreneur, lifestyle journalist, and the CEO of Crunchy Mama Box, a mission-driven platform promoting conscious living. CMB empowers individuals with educational resources and vetted products to help them make informed choices. Passionate about social causes like environmental preservation and animal welfare, Wanda writes about clean beauty, wellness, nutrition, social impact and sustainability, simplifying wellness with curated resources. Join Wanda and the Crunchy Mama Box community in embracing a healthier, more sustainable lifestyle at CrunchyMamaBox.com.