Women Leading The Finance Industry: Author Erin Skye Kelly On The 5 Things You Should Do To Increase Your Financial Literacy

Be resourceful and create something out of nothing — Debt takes away our ability to be resourceful. When we rely on credit, we block our creativity and resourcefulness, so I would encourage an adult child to create income without spending money to do so, even if it’s just a temporary fun thing to test themselves as a challenge.

As a part of our series about “Women Leading The Finance Industry”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Erin Skye Kelly.

Erin Skye Kelly is a bestselling and award-winning author, keynote speaker, and entrepreneur. Her new book, “Get the Hell Out of Debt’’ teaches financial literacy in a way that is approachable, entertaining, and inspiring. Erin’s resources have helped thousands of people pay off millions of dollars in personal debt, and are inspired by her personal journey of regaining financial freedom.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Can you tell us the “backstory” about what brought you to the finance field?

I was very interested in investing in real estate when I was a teenager, so I started as an investor before getting into finance. Eventually, I was fascinated by the mortgage industry. When I was purchasing a property through my bank, my realtor suggested I try his mortgage broker, and I did. I ended up getting a much lower rate and far better terms, and when I went to sign the documents, it was with the exact bank I was working with. I was like, “what kind of magic is this?!” and what followed was my career in the mortgage and finance industry. After working with hundreds of families and seeing the pattern of debt, however, I was inspired to write the award-winning and best-selling book, “Get the Hell Out of Debt.”

Can you share with our readers the most interesting or amusing story that occured to you in your career so far? Can you share the lesson or take away you took out of that story?

I talk about this in my book, but when I owned a mortgage brokerage and was recruiting mortgage associates, the person in charge of recruiting told me he highly encouraged people new to the industry to lease or finance a car and buy some fancy clothes on credit. Because this goes against what I believe, I was curious, and he explained that it would help them stay in the job longer because they will have debt to repay, so it is a way to ensure security for me. I was abhorred! But as I looked at the industry, I realized how much of the industry is reliant not only on the customers to be in debt so the lenders would turn a profit but that workers, contractors, and industry professionals also accumulate debt to normalize it and ‘educate’ clients on the benefits.

Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?

My new book “Get the Hell Out of Debt” is a step-by-step approach to helping people master their money, and we’ve seen dramatic shifts in net worth, financial confidence, and financial literacy as a result. For example, last year during COVID-19, an amazing woman named Jacqueline was laid off and unemployed and still managed to pay off her $20,000 in consumer debt following the steps, and she didn’t touch her severance pay. She’s now well on her way to wealth building and remains consumer-debt-free. I’ve got an online program that supports the book and allows people doing the work to do it in a community with other people. There is nothing that lights me up more than watching women free themselves and their families financially.

What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?

Because I have experienced my own form of extreme financial stress and debt, the feedback from my readers and participants is that they do not feel lectured to, and they feel like our team is walking beside them in their hardship. This is likely a direct result of my mission to alleviate the suffering in others that I experienced myself when I felt lost financially and was then spoken down to by industry experts. Helping people alleviate shame around financial hardship has been critical to the results of my readers and course participants. I remember when Chrissy, mom of 3, who worked with her husband to pay off $90,000 in consumer debt in 11 months, told me she went to the accountant for the first time with her husband that following year and the accountant was so impressed with her questions and her numeracy. She felt so proud of herself and sees herself as an equal partner in the financial aspect of her marriage now.

Ok. Thank you for all that. Let’s now jump to the main core of our interview. Wall Street and Finance used to be an “all white boys club”. This has changed a lot recently. In your opinion, what caused this change?

I would love to tell you that the reason the shift is happening is because more men see the value in having diversity at the table, but frankly, the reason is profits. A recent McKinsey research article headlined: “An unprecedented amount of assets will shift into the hands of U.S. women over the next three to five years, representing a $30 trillion opportunity by the end of the decade.” So it is definitely about women proving to be good stewards of money and the industry as a whole seeing it as a profitable venture. I’ve seen women overcome tremendous financial obstacles and tap into incredible resourcefulness with grit and fortitude when the person with the penis next to them got a handout. So at the end of the day, the cause of the change matters less than the fact the shift is happening, and it will be a powerful one that I truly believe will have a positive ripple effect on all genders.

Of course, despite the progress, we still have a lot more work to do to achieve parity. According to this report in CNBC, less than 17 percent of senior positions in investment banks are held by women. In your opinion or experience, what 3 things can be done by a)individuals b)companies and/or c) society to support this movement going forward?

1. We have to work at creating a results-based environment instead of a time-based environment. Giving people the flexibility to perform and deliver is much less soul-crushing than forcing them to be at the office from 8–5 Monday through Friday. We live in a time where people are leaving their jobs, less because they don’t enjoy the work and more because they can’t stand the culture. Certainly, some jobs are best suited for that structure, but trying to force all of your talent into an antiquated structure means that there are a lot of hours you might be paying people to look busy simply to please the organization rather than perform for the organization.
2. Individuals in leadership need to invite inclusivity when the organization doesn’t necessarily support it or has a blindspot to their lack of inclusivity. The report references that women are reporting that they are excluded from social outings or networking. If you are a leader in an organization that has a culture where you notice women are being excluded, it’s critical you swing an invite for someone who is being excluded. You can make up for your organization’s oversight and help guide change kindly from within. We also need to look, from an organizational perspective, at whether the types of social outings we are doing business at are exclusive to gender.
3. As more women enter leadership, there will likely be more female mentorship. In the meantime, if men are willing to take on mentorship, they must be listening as much as talking. Rather than try and mentor a woman into the way things are, allowing a more collaborative mentorship process has the ability to change the way things are.

Let’s now turn to a slightly new topic. According to this report in Fortune, nearly two-thirds of Americans can’t pass a basic test of financial literacy. In your opinion or experience what is the cause of these unfortunate numbers? If you had the power to make a change, what 3 things would you recommend to improve these numbers?

1. I know a lot of people grumble that they didn’t learn about money in school, and what they are really saying is “I didn’t learn good money habits,” and frankly, I am not sure that school is the appropriate place to learn. School is part of an education system designed to put you in a vocation for life, and the school system has no vested interest in you becoming financially free. If we want kids to learn about money (in school or elsewhere), we have to teach them more than the math behind money, and we have to teach them money behaviors. We have to give them money (even imaginary), and they have to work with it daily to understand all the cumulative and compound ways that money works based on the decisions you make. It can’t be a simple unit in the middle of a math class. It has to be a daily practice that allows them to fail and try again, from elementary school right through to high school.
2. Children unconsciously learn their money habits from their primary caregivers. If the primary caregivers do not have a good relationship with money, it makes it more difficult to have open money conversations at home. I have an online course called “How to Teach Your Kids About Money,” and parents often get excited and think, “oh, I’ll make my kid watch this!” but it’s not that easy. This course is NOT for kids. It’s for adults to learn how to teach their kids, and often, adults want to be absolved of that responsibility or feel too tired to take on yet another role. But the kids are watching you anyway. So you might as well involve them in age-appropriate financial decisions so they have the confidence they need to launch into adulthood.
3. Most importantly, we need to remove the shame around a lack of financial literacy. This is coming from a privileged place. Yes, we all would love to impart on every American that they ‘should’ spend less than they earn, and they ‘should’ not put things on credit cards they can’t afford. But when we’ should’ all over someone, we judge them harshly. There are very real systems at play that are discriminatory in nature. No amount of financial education will solve the problem if the system is still there to oppress those who are struggling to get ahead. We have to manage all of this with a level of kindness and respect that tends to be missing when we talk about education.

You are a “finance insider”. If you had to advise your adult child about 5 non intuitive things one should do to become more financially literate, what would you say? Can you please give a story or example for each.

1. Have at least one asset that pays you to understand cash flow — With my children, I taught this with bulk vending machines. I used something they loved and were already interested in, candy! I introduced this concept to them when they were 4 and 5 years old. It took a while for them to ‘get it.’ At first, they wanted to fill their machines with M&M’s because they loved M&M’s, but after a few weeks, they barely had enough cash flow to replenish the machine. So then they moved on to jelly beans which were cheaper. But the candy sat for a long period of time because jelly beans weren’t as popular. Finally, they landed on Mike & Ike’s, which at the time were the sweet spot between profitability and demand. As the extra cash (coins!) started to roll in, they felt like Scrooge McDuck diving into a vat of money and making money became very exciting. (They are being taught to manage it, so they don’t take on Scrooge McDuck tendencies!)
2. Be resourceful and create something out of nothing — Debt takes away our ability to be resourceful. When we rely on credit, we block our creativity and resourcefulness, so I would encourage an adult child to create income without spending money to do so, even if it’s just a temporary fun thing to test themselves as a challenge.
3. Do not borrow for liabilities, ever — Unfortunately, most of us do not understand what a liability even is, so we end up in a situation where we are paying back money we borrowed for something that is decreasing in value or has no value, and we are paying interest on that. I understand this is not feasible for every American, especially if systemic poverty is at play. But since this is an imaginary and hopeful question, the thing that would have the most impact on a young adult’s ability to build wealth is training them never to borrow for a liability.
4. Track your net worth — Your budget’s job is to increase your net worth every month. When we understand that tracking net worth is the key — we don’t get lost in the minutiae every financial guru fights about: using coupons, comparison shopping, negotiations over rate…all of those things are lovely, but if they don’t help your net worth increase every month, you are going for a long spin on a short hamster wheel.
5. Give — Whether you are giving to charity or simply human to human, nothing elevates your understanding of wealth like giving. It teaches you abundance, and it teaches you to work for something greater than yourself. If you learn early how to make giving part of your regular spending, you will live a very rich life.

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?

I always think about Jonathan Cardozo. I was at an event backstage for the #1 motivational speaker in the world, and he watched me running around putting out fires. He noticed there were a bunch of items that were not ready in the green room, and even though this wasn’t my job, he wondered if I could help. So, being resourceful, I put together an entire green room in less than 45 minutes because why wouldn’t I try? Now, thanks to Jonathan, I work on a regular basis for that company, but I get to prevent fires from happening in the first place. Jonathan taught me to pay attention to the details and the people that go above and beyond and make sure they are recognized and rewarded. I am grateful for Jonathan all the time because this role has brought so much laughter and joy and just enough challenge to keep me growing.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

I love the quote by Sallie Krawcheck where she says, “nothing bad happens when women have more money.” That deeply impacts me because I think for so long, I had this underlying belief that because I was a woman, I didn’t deserve money. When I was in my 20’s, I was the program director of a Christian radio station, and I was dating the assistant program director. (Nothing scandalous!) When we were getting serious, however, I stepped down and took the assistant position and made him the program director because I had this unconscious belief that he should make more money than me. (Okay, I guess THAT part is scandalous!) I believe that when women learn they are worthy of money and that they can be trusted with money, good things happen.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the greatest amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

Helping people get the Hell Out of Debt is my passion. When a person has $500/month, $1200/month, or $5000 in consumer debt payments, and becomes consumer debt-free and now has that much money a month to invest and give, amazing things happen. When people are financially free, they can leave jobs they hate, relationships that are toxic, and we know they are healthier, mentally and physically overall. I know it sounds silly that paying off your credit cards makes the world a better place, but when we realize the impact that stress and debt have on our communities and our families, everyone benefits when financial security is established.

Thank you for the time you spent on this interview. We wish you only continued success.