Women Of The C-Suite: Kelly Hopping of Demandbase On The Five Things You Need To Succeed As A Senior Executive

An Interview With Doug Noll

Just say Yes. I have been blessed with strong advocates throughout my career who have spoken up for me and carried me with them from one organization to the next. As a planner and over-achiever, I never imagined that. I had originally pictured a certain path with a manageable time frame in my handpicked industry. Instead, I learned to just stay open to the possibilities; they were more than I could have ever imagined. By cultivating authentic working relationships along the way, doors were opened by mentors and leaders that I admired. I had to trust that the timing is always perfect, so I try not to dismiss opportunities too quickly. Lean into change. While stability has its merits, being open to new challenges and ideas can introduce growth opportunities beyond your wildest dreams.

As a part of our interview series called “Women Of The C-Suite”, we had the pleasure of interviewing Kelly Hopping.

Kelly Hopping is the chief marketing officer at Demandbase and is an experienced business executive and marketing leader who is an advocate for managing a well-rounded life. She earned her Bachelor of Science in Industrial Engineering from Texas A&M University and her MBA from Harvard Business School. Kelly is passionate about building world class teams, generating and accelerating pipelines, differentiating and growing high-quality brands, empowering up-and-coming future leaders to thrive, and leading businesses through change and acceleration.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?

Thank you for having me. I actually went to school to be an engineer, but the day before I started my product development internship at Sabre, the VP of Product Development called to tell me that he was now the VP of Product Marketing and asked if I would like to join him in product marketing for the summer. I have been in marketing ever since. After four years at Sabre where I was essentially learning marketing as I went, I decided to get my MBA to become a proper marketer. From there, I pivoted from product to brand marketing and started my consumer marketing career at Kraft Foods in New Jersey and then Chicago where I received the best marketing training in the world. Once I had my first child, I decided it was time to come home to Texas. There isn’t a lot of consumer goods in Austin, so I shifted to technology from Dell to AMD to Rackspace to Gartner to HYCU and then Demandbase over the next 15 years.

Three consistent threads drove every single career move:

1. Incredible mentors and advocates pulled me along from company to company. I haven’t applied for a job since college. I was just blessed to have people that believed in me and invited me to join them as they transitioned to new companies.
2. I have always been asked to “build” something in new positions. It’s what I love to do because it doesn’t come with a script. It’s about defining the objective, evaluating the resources, and designing the structure and operating model from the ground up. I jump at the chance to do that in every single role.
3. I always think “if I am going to be away from my kids all day, is this the job that I want to do?” And “is this a culture that supports my priorities and non-negotiables to ensure that I never miss a key moment in my kids’ lives?” The opportunity has to be worth it, because the years that my kids are home is finite (and dwindling so fast).

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your team?

I have only been at Demandbase for a few months, so my stories are somewhat limited and recent. I think the most surprising thing I have experienced is how different team members react to a new leader coming on board. The majority are extremely optimistic, communicative, and transparent in sharing what they are working on, what is adding value (and what isn’t), and where they think the opportunities lie. They are marching ahead, continuing to execute and drive results, knowing that I will most likely be making adjustments along the way.

However, an example I can provide when I started a new position was when one marketing director showed up at our introductory meeting and told me that she was excited that I was here so that I could tell her what to work on. Week after week, she repeated that she was anxious for me to get up to speed so that I could give her tasks to do. As a director, I was fascinated (and disappointed) by that complete lack of drive, initiative, and problem-solving (and one of the reasons it was obvious that she wasn’t a good culture fit). I obviously want to lead my team with clear communication of objectives and key priorities, but as the marketing leaders, I expect strategic thinking, a bias for action, and some “want to” and “will do.” The silver lining was that everyone else on the team was a rock star, crushing it day after day, and I couldn’t be more grateful to work with them.

It has been said that our mistakes can be our greatest teachers. Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

The very best thing about being a marketing leader in a martech company is that you are the expert on the product. We are not an overhead cost center here. We represent the voice of the customer, we live and breathe the product every day in our own operations, and can speak to customers with knowledge and understanding of their challenges. That means that I get pulled into customer emails and meetings daily, which I absolutely love. It’s my favorite part of the job. But given the volume of one-to-one outreach I do to customer CMOs and the daily tasks I am juggling, I am bound to make mistakes, unfortunately. I try to work efficiently, so I often re-use email copy from one customer to another and then customize it for the unique elements of each customer. I have messed up the subject line with the wrong customer name, I have copied the wrong account manager, and I have misused an Oxford comma on occasion. I hate making mistakes like that because every single customer is uniquely valuable. Hopefully it means that I am human, authentic, and empathetic about the life that all of our marketing customers are living everyday.

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?

When I was a Director of Brand at Rackspace, my new CMO Carla Pineyro Sublett, asked me to take on a much bigger role. She had been impressed by what she had heard about me and seen in her first few weeks in the job and wanted to promote me to Sr. Director of Integrated Marketing. This would include brand, creative, content, go-to-market strategy, and campaign planning, expanding my team from six to 30 people. I told her “no thank you.” I told her that I had three young kids at home, that I was home every night, that I was fine at the director level compensation, and that I was content staying at my current level until my kids graduated high school to ensure that I would never miss any of their games or milestone moments. She was shocked that I turned it down. She then asked me again, and I told her the same answer. She finally just promoted me, gave me the expanded scope, and then promised me that I would be home every night and she would help protect my non-negotiables. And she did! She believed in me enough to push me when I might not have had the courage to believe that I could do it all and still be a hands-on, present mom. That opportunity opened my eyes to the possibility of doing it all, and it accelerated my entire career trajectory to VP within a year and CMO a year after that. Carla went on to recommend me for a speaking slot at the Texas Conference for Women and referred an executive recruiter to me for my first CMO position at Gartner.

Leadership often entails making difficult decisions or hard choices between two apparently good paths. Can you share a story with us about a hard decision or choice you had to make as a leader?

I have had to do a lot of layoffs throughout my career. When you market cookies during the low carb craze, processors when silicon yields are abysmal, cloud computing when Amazon and Google cut their prices in half, and small business reviews during the Covid pandemic, you end up conducting cost-cutting exercises more often than you would prefer.

There is always a line you hit when you are having to cut deeper than just poor performance, and you have to make a decision between which strong performer to eliminate. This requires thinking through all the trade-offs — culture, perception, cost savings, revenue impact — and making the best hard decision. Ultimately, I believe that the situations always work out the way they are supposed to, but the battle in my gut leading up to that decision is torture. It is a constant reminder that this is business, not personal, while trying to execute that decision with grace and dignity.

Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Most of our readers — in fact, most people — think they have a pretty good idea of what a CMO or executive does. But in just a few words can you explain what an executive does that is different from the responsibilities of the other leaders?

I think a lot of folks believe Chief Marketing Officers are much fluffier than reality — creative, advertising, branding, social media. In reality, the number one priority for a CMO is contribution to revenue. I am held accountable for how marketing is impacting our pipeline growth and how well that converts to closed won revenue, so my key responsibility is to ensure that I am managing my resources and budget in the most efficient way possible to grow sales, driven full funnel from brand to demand.

What are the “myths” that you would like to dispel about being a CMO or executive? Can you explain what you mean?

• Myth: Marketing is easy. Anyone can do it.
• Truth: Most people believe that marketing is an art, not a science, but the reality is that modern marketing is almost entirely data driven. Attribution is often directional, but conversion to revenue is absolute. There is a right answer based on a series of positive contributors. It is not just a series of pretty ads and inspiring creative. Revenue impact is about relevant and differentiated messaging placed in front of high-value, high-intent prospects that drives pipeline and accelerates revenue conversion. Data drives every step.

In your opinion, what are the biggest challenges faced by women executives that aren’t typically faced by their male counterparts?

• Communication — Women tend to “uptalk” to avoid sounding too opinionated or declarative in an environment where strong women can be negatively perceived as aggressive. This means that we often speak with a question mark rather than a period as opposed to our male counterparts who usually deliver their opinions with command. We undermine our own credibility and value when we sound like we are second-guessing ourselves.
• Confidence — Women feel like we must master every part of our function in order to feel worthy of moving up. This can limit a woman’s willingness to put herself out there to rise up in her career. In reality, our secret sauce often comes in the form of our high emotional intelligence, reading the room, and problem solving to remove obstacles for our teams. Women under-value those skills when they are actually the most critical in career progression. Functional skills can be learned, but soft skills must be experienced and embodied. Women are generally the best at this and should own that narrative in showcasing their value.

What is the most striking difference between your actual job and how you thought the job would be?

I am a marketing leader in a marketing company, so I assumed that marketing would be the highest functioning organization in the company. In reality, we often market go-to-market strategies that we are still struggling to implement ourselves. I absolutely love the opportunity to build the team, the operating model, the priorities, and the programs to accelerate revenue and drive sales and marketing alignment, but I had assumed the teams were more integrated and aligned before I arrived.

For example, we recently had a two-day offsite between the marketing, sales, and customer success leadership teams. It was the first time in Demandbase history that a meeting like that had been done while I had assumed that was a very normal part of operations. It was a massive success at driving cross-functional alignment around key priorities for the new year. We will continue to partner and over-communicate across the organization, because it just makes everyone’s jobs so much easier when you are operating off of the same playbook.

Is everyone cut out to be an executive? In your opinion, which specific traits increase the likelihood that a person will be a successful executive and what type of person should avoid aspiring to be an executive? Can you explain what you mean?

No, absolutely not, and that is okay. We need executives, mid-level managers, and individual contributors because everyone brings a different perspective and skillset. I believe that a successful executive must be able to:

• Lead through ambiguity to filter out key priorities
• Establish a vision to drive focus
• Be willing to own the responsibility for budget decisions and impact to revenue
• Build the right organizational model and hire the right talent to work collaboratively and deliver the key objectives
• Work cross-functionally with other executives (who have strong personalities, diverse opinions, and conflicting motives)
• Communicate effectively

People who should avoid being an executive:

• Hate meetings
• Struggle to play well with others
• Dive so deep into the weeds that they can’t extract the bigger picture
• Are not comfortable or capable of providing direction, support, and expectations to their teams
• Don’t engage or enjoy the macro-business economics to understand how their function contributes to the larger organization
• Aren’t willing to ask for help or admit when they are wrong
• Think they are entitled to a leadership position due to tenure or functional check boxes

What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started my Career” and why?

1. Being effective in your job doesn’t mean that you have to be “better” than your peers. For some reason, I used to approach my role as almost a competition with sales. “We’re the ones bringing in pipeline. It would be nice if you could convert it to revenue.” In reality, sales and marketing alignment is the number one challenge in growing revenue. Now I realize that a collaborative partnership based on shared priorities and metrics is much more effective. We are in the trenches together, for the good and the bad times. Open communication and aligned focus is critical.
2. Lateral moves develop more well-rounded leaders. Leadership takes time. Great leadership goes far beyond mastering technical or functional skills. Soft skills like developing emotional intelligence, navigating complex relationships, and mastering situational awareness take time. Early in my career, I worked hard to excel at my craft and then began seeking out more senior roles. I learned through smart, experienced leaders and time in seat that the functions are just step one in career growth. I also noticed that leaders often get typecast after the director level, so diversifying as many pre-director experiences as possible allowed me the most robust and well-rounded skill set.
3. Know your value and don’t apologize for it. I once hesitated to ask for increased compensation when my job scope was significantly expanded. I was afraid that I would be seen as opportunistic rather than as a company-first team player. Part of that was true. I needed to do the work first, prove that I could add value to the company, and justify the increase in scope. However, once that was confirmed, I learned that I should quantify my value and feel confident to ask for what I am worth. I don’t need to apologize for that. Even if they say “no,” I have learned that leaders respect initiative and self-advocacy, as long as the work product backs it up.
4. The average CMO has a very short shelf life. Obviously, I haven’t experienced that in my current role since I have only been here a few months but based on my own experience and watching my CMO buddies, the average CMO tends to last about 18 to 24 months. That average is brought down by start-ups as founders tend to be unable to decouple their brand from the company brand, causing every CMO to fall short, in their eyes. Regardless, that means that I have to hit the ground running…get started quickly, maximize impact, and achieve fast wins. That helps my team too as they are waiting for a new strategy and direction, so I have to cover a lot of ground in the first few weeks. Listen with intention and distill the key insights from all the noise. Then drop the anchor and go.
5. Just say Yes. I have been blessed with strong advocates throughout my career who have spoken up for me and carried me with them from one organization to the next. As a planner and over-achiever, I never imagined that. I had originally pictured a certain path with a manageable time frame in my handpicked industry. Instead, I learned to just stay open to the possibilities; they were more than I could have ever imagined. By cultivating authentic working relationships along the way, doors were opened by mentors and leaders that I admired. I had to trust that the timing is always perfect, so I try not to dismiss opportunities too quickly. Lean into change. While stability has its merits, being open to new challenges and ideas can introduce growth opportunities beyond your wildest dreams.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.

I am a huge believer in taking responsibility for our actions. I feel like we live in a world these days where there is always someone to blame, we always need to be right, and we can always just quit and find something else if it doesn’t go our way. Everything from social media to the NCAA transfer portal to working remotely has enabled this behavior. In reality, if we just swallowed our pride and acknowledged the role we played in the situation, then the level of stress, anxiety, and anger would reduce immediately. There is no faster way to disarm a situation and diffuse emotion than to just say, “I’m sorry.” I’d love to inspire a movement where we start there.

We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.

I love college football, and I am always so inspired by successful coaches who love Jesus. Two of my favorites are Jim Harbaugh (University of Michigan) and Dabo Swinney (Clemson University), because they are incredible humans who love and inspire their teams, achieve greatness on and off the field, and give all the glory to Christ in the process. I would love the chance to pick their brains about leading with faith under the pressure of the national spotlight. They both do it with grace and dignity.

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.

About the Interviewer: Douglas E. Noll, JD, MA was born nearly blind, crippled with club feet, partially deaf, and left-handed. He overcame all of these obstacles to become a successful civil trial lawyer. In 2000, he abandoned his law practice to become a peacemaker. His calling is to serve humanity, and he executes his calling at many levels. He is an award-winning author, teacher, and trainer. He is a highly experienced mediator. Doug’s work carries him from international work to helping people resolve deep interpersonal and ideological conflicts. Doug teaches his innovative de-escalation skill that calms any angry person in 90 seconds or less. With Laurel Kaufer, Doug founded Prison of Peace in 2009. The Prison of Peace project trains life and long terms incarcerated people to be powerful peacemakers and mediators. He has been deeply moved by inmates who have learned and applied deep, empathic listening skills, leadership skills, and problem-solving skills to reduce violence in their prison communities. Their dedication to learning, improving, and serving their communities motivates him to expand the principles of Prison of Peace so that every human wanting to learn the skills of peace may do so. Doug’s awards include California Lawyer Magazine Lawyer of the Year, Best Lawyers in America Lawyer of the Year, Purpose Prize Fellow, International Academy of Mediators Syd Leezak Award of Excellence, National Academy of Distinguished Neutrals Neutral of the Year. His four books have won a number of awards and commendations. Doug’s podcast, Listen With Leaders, is now accepting guests. Click on this link to learn more and apply.